LongLine

It's out there quite a ways I'd need a really calm day. Tom B. (LongLine)

2nd the motion - call Hank. Tom B. (LongLine)

oh great...another bad habit. (just playing) Congratulations. Definitely a keeper. I can hear it now: "Here Gramps, you take it...it's a little one." Tom B. (LongLine)

Atlantic (poorly developed or missing) Brown (well defined) Tom B. (LongLine)

I think we're all getting the itch. Took a ride to Auburn Bass Pro yesterday & they had quite a crowd. Batteries are charged & I've been touching up hooks for a couple days now. Tom B. (LongLine)

Ranger – welcome to the board. You’ve got some interesting points there but I’d like to mention a few more. Lake Ontario is a very fragile ecosystem. We’ve lost a lot of phyto & zooplankton already. Invasives have hurt it a lot in the last 20 years. The warmer nearshore areas (within 2 miles) are very key to the survival of all aquatic life in Big-O, especially the salmonoids. Gobys have put a real hurt on the bass populations. Gobies are now a large percentage of the biomass. (We really don’t need to give them another food source.) Lake Trout spawning beds are now threatened because of the Gobies & mussel infestations. A lot of money has been spent to restore the fisheries over the past 40 yrs and Sports fishing is bringing in major dollars to our local economies. Variable Trout & Salmon reproduction is now an established fact. Even sturgeon are beginning to come back. They need the rivers and we do not need to have them sharing the rivers with carp. The Niagara and the Salmon River have the best flows and these are the major grounds of the Salmon & Trout. The lake has many underwater currents in it. Oft times they are stronger than the outflow currents of the tribs. Some sediment from the Genesee River gets carried all the way to the thousand islands. During the 7 month fishing season, of the trout & salmon, Browns are rarely deeper than 100 FOW and generally less than 1 1/2 mile offshore. They’re often caught in 8 FOW or less for the 1st half of the season. Salmon are caught shallow for at least ½ the season. We find them around the tribs and bays early then again late in the season. I can’t imagine the havoc these invaders would cause during the start of the Pro/Ams when 50-100 boats leave port at top speed to get out there. Also while we’re fishing we often see many other non-fishing boats zipping around out there around us. The boat launch at the Genesee River is approximately ¼ mile away from the lake with a speed limit of 6 mph. How many people will have to turn around due to injury? How many will be scared away? How many will sell their boats & take up golf? Trolling for Salmon & Trout is not like trolling for other specie. We troll with main engines or some hefty kickers, not the electrics that bass guys use. Although the normal speed most use is in the 2.5 mph range, many guys are finding that up to 5 mph is effective. The videos I’m seeing of the DNR’s show they’re not traveling much faster than typical trolling speeds. As for commercial fishing, that’s what ruined our Fishery in the first place. Nets don’t discriminate and incidental kills would be frequent. You’ll find the stationary nets are the nemesis of sportsfishermen in both Michigan and Canada. They’re banned here in NYS. I understand that canning factory on the Illinois River is having a lot of trouble marketing carp as even dog food plants don’t want them. (They may be popular in Asia as a food source but Americans have different diets and generally don’t eat dog.) Brown trout are beginning to eat Gobies but that’s because it’s taken 10 years and some are hard pressed to find other food. Salmon won’t touch them as they eat alewives and the alewife population is more in balance today with what the lake can sustain than ever. Northerns may eat them; however, their population seems stressed right now. (VHS, etc) As for the other 26 routes, if asked by the governments, I’m sure many Great Lakes Trollers would be happy to volunteer to help deliver plenty of Rotenone. Tom B. (LongLine)

Happy B'day LS Tom B. (LongLine)

Happy B'day Stan. Better tell the better half to put 1 candle on the cake for every 5 yrs - California has had enough wildfires. Tom B. (LongLine)

Did you try RAS? On Ridge Rd - out Spencerport way? Tom B. (LongLine)

Offended??? You better post a whole bunch of pictures! Tom B. (LongLine)

Make sure the surface is real clean. Very few coatings will stick to lead after it turns dull gray. Tom B. (LongLine)

Red - When not spawning they hang out near the bait. Bait like the warmest water they can find in the winter and that happens to be very deep right now. Tom B. (LongLine)

No question the Canadian gov't favors commercial fishing and tribal interests also. Just look at the urbanization on the west end of the lake. To bad they don't do that much about pollution. My hat's off to all the S&T volunteers on the North side of the fence. I wouldn't be suprised if they're the ones really pushing for the Burbot & Whitefish too. I don't see us raising Eels for them. My Dad caught one many years ago out in the lake. (had to be in the early 60's) Can you say UGLY? He gave it to the "old dutchman" on the bay who loved it. In fact the old guy bought us some fishing gear the next weekend. Never saw another one. Tom B. (LongLine)

Here's what I've found on the Eel question (asked in another thread) Looks like the Canadians are pushing it. (Also found out the great lakes have the females - Males go to Europe) http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Newsroom/La ... 04285.html Tom B. (LongLine)

You have some great pictures there. They tried putting some pinks in Lake Ontario at one time but it was very short lived. Tom B. (LongLine)

Hmmm...2 birthdays this year? Does that make you twice as old as you think you are? Do you get to retire in 1/2 the time? Tom B. (LongLine)

When you're checking how the plug runs on the surface, move the rod tip towards the front of the boat and check out how it wobbles at a faster speed. If good action then send it down. Tom B. (LongLine)

Happy B'day SB1. Tom B. (LongLine)

Vince – I know what you mean about the Royal Bonnyl. I have fond memories with it on my 6 1/2 ft cherrywood and Mitchell 300. (Abu spinners really made a mess out of it, especially with bead chains, after about 20 casts – used to love the yellow one. Remember wooden flatfish?) I’m not sure what’s going on with eels, other than they’re on the endangered list worldwide or very close to being on it. I read someplace that they do return to the ocean (Sargasso Sea – maybe?) then come back to spawn. I’m guessing USF&WS & other habitat/ocean type organizations are pushing for them. They used to be very popular down NYC way. The DEC bios & USGS guys that most of us have had contact with are very Data driven. The annual report is loaded with stats & numbers. I think we as stakeholders should keep up our log books, take pictures, make reports etc and make our voices heard to the DEC & USGS. A few guys are doing the later but we need more. We need more than the once per year meeting. A couple years ago, guys raised the smallmouth issue from I-bay & east. The DEC jumped on it, set up a gill-net operation & reported on it. Looks like this issue has come up again & I wouldn’t be surprised if they do something again. As to the skill of the anglers, some of us learn and some of us take up golf. I think if the fishing “sucksâ€, we need to make that known to the guys that take the creel surveys, because what their bosses are seeing is a drop in license sales and that hurts us. For anyone reading this: Don’t be afraid to send the regional offices or Lake Unit an email. They will answer questions & they want to hear how it’s going out there. It also gives them documentation and data to take to the upper-echelons for the policy decision making meetings. As to stocking policy, the policy makers look at all kinds of numerical indicators plus, by law, they must listen and take into account the stakeholders. They did raise the King stocking slightly a couple years back because we wanted it. One last point. The DEC & USGS knows about this site. They do occasionally view it to see what’s going on. Tom B. (LongLine)

They theorize that some fish went thru the barrier before it was brought up to current power levels. Also the poison they used was suppied by the NYSDEC. That farmer died a long time ago and actually he had a permit from the USF&WS in Arkansas. (and we all know what else Arkansas gave us) Tom B. (LongLine)

The Great Lakes Water Quality Agreement (GLWQA) was a treaty between the US & Canada in order “to restore and maintain the chemical, biological and physical ecosystem of the Great Lakes.†It has much earlier roots (50’s) but was formally ratified in 1972. It established the Great Lakes Fishery Commission. The USEPA & Environment Canada are the respective lead gov’t agencies. They are supported by the USF&WS, USGS and in the background NOAA. The GLWQA’s aim was really to reduce pollution and increase research on the lakes with the goal of reducing that pollution. Faced with the question of “how to measure†the effects of whatever they did, they decided that tissue samples from wildlife would be a good indicator. Unfortunately they had no established population of deep water offshore fish. In 1974 the USF&WS began production of Lake Trout, at the then recently completed Allegheny Hatchery, specifically for introduction into Lake Ontario & Erie. Our “forefathers†decided that tissue from fatty, bottom dwelling, and deep water fish would be a really good indicator of the pollution levels in the lake. The fact that it was “native†was a “nicety†and would probably make obtaining funding easier. (Funding was recognized as a hurdle ever since talks began) They figured that if the Lake Trout population took off and their tissue contamination reduced then obviously they were successful as lake would be returning to its original condition w.r.t. pollution. What does the Lake Trout stocking have to do with Alewives? Answer --- Nothing. (Alewives & LTs for the most part are usually found in different parts of the water column.) Along about this same time period, alewives were piling up on the shorelines with objectionable sight & smell. The NYSDEC looked west and saw what Michigan was doing with Pacific Salmon so they decided to also stock Pacific Salmon and other trout specie to reduce alewife numbers. No one really believed that the salmon fishing would take off like it did. It had potential for a decent fishery & some people hoped, but that claim was really to help make funding easier. (Remember the 1st ESLO was won with a 5Lb salmon - who would have dreamed that a 40Lb'r would win some years later?) What does Salmon stocking have to do with pollution? Answer --- Nothing. (When alewives are offshore, salmon will get them. When they come in shallow to spawn, Browns will get them, additionally Steelheads will chase over all over the lake.) The GLWQA has been amended a couple times and the GLFC updated. In the 80’s, the GLFC set up individual committees for each lake and they drew in the state/local gov’t agencies for the individual lakes. Each lake committee is charged with developing a Lakewide Management Plan. (LaMP) NYSDEC is a key player with Big-O. (Fisheries, Habitat & Wildlife). In one of the earlier revisions, the Lamprey was named as an “enemy†of restoration & needed control. One of the GLFC updates included a clause requiring “stakeholder involvement.†The LaMP for Lake Ontario also contains that clause; hence the DEC conducts State of the Lake Meetings and goes to various sportfishing organizations throughout the year. This is the document that does not name any specific salmon as the top pelagic predator in Lake Ontario. Back to LT’s & salmon – LT’s are a federal program, Salmon are a state program. In politics – you scratch my back & I’ll scratch yours. The DEC helps the Feds stock & monitor Lake Trout. The Feds supply all kinds of research, data, test facilities etc in return. No question in my mind, I’d prefer to catch Kings than Lake Trout. However Lakers are here to stay. Last year’s Lake Ontario Annual Report says: As for missing stocking target levels, that only occurred for a couple years. Even though Allegheny has been shut down since 2005, LT’s have come from other USF&WS hatcheries (Pitsford & White River – Vermont I think) We probably will have to fight to keep salmon stocking going, if what I've been reading about Nat Repro is correct. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for Kings in Lake Ontario. I personally think that they have earned their “naturalizationâ€. They are naturally reproducing and should be treated as a native species and should be named that way in the LaMP. I think we should all bring it up at the State of the lake meetings. Tom B. (LongLine) ps the low salmon number in the table is due to the eye-up problem from 2007 - not a stocking reduction. Also note stocking numbers of Kings for the 3 years prior to that was up.

Looks like they came up with something. http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010 ... house.html Now the question is $. Tom B. (LongLine)

Vince – you have some very interesting points there. I think there are some things that we as fishermen-stakeholders need to think about in the “off-seasonâ€: 1. The 2009 L.O. annual report states that from 2002 thru 2007, the weights of Kings from the boat surveys sequentially decreased. In 2008, they went up slightly. (Hopefully it is a start of a good trend) The report also shows both catch & harvest rates from the same 5 yr period (02-07) to be above that 1987-2001 period. In 2008, it’s lower than the previous 5 yrs. 2. Studies have shown there is indeed a positive correlation between license sales in the Lake Ontario counties and the number of fish stocked in Lake Ontario. More license sales equates to more fishing trips so indeed the more fish stocked, the better it is for the local economies and businesses with a financial stake in it. 3. Long term trends are now evident in the biomonitoring dataset for Lake Ontario. Unfortunately zooplankton levels have decreased by approximately 15% per year since the late 90’s and are now estimated at 1% of the level of 30 years ago. Alewives feed on zooplankton. Although Alewives do eat water fleas, their numbers are not enough to keep the flea population in check. 4. Alewife survival “success†depends a great deal upon nearshore water temperature for the 1st few months after they hatch. Long cold winters are very detrimental. 5. Not just the NYSDEC but also the GLFC, USGS, USF&WS, OMNR and every other organization involved with the Great Lakes have it in their objectives to restore native species to self-sustaining levels as a priority. They all list Lake Trout, Lake Sturgeon, Burbot, Northern Pike, Bass, Perch, Walleye & Eel. None of them have referred to, or specifically named a salmon. I’m not gloom & doom as I definitely see some positives when I look at the lake and the data, but in thinking about these points, I can’t help wondering: 1. What do we accept as “significant†changes in the numbers? We have had 5 year trends. (Unfortunately more negative than positive trends.) I’m not aware of any published criteria. I can do stats as well as anyone in the DEC but statistical significance and “reality on the water†can be two different things. 2. Would it be a long term boost or a short term boost? I have no financial stake in this. I just want to be able to catch fish & see that my kids & their families do also. 3 & 4. Alewives can be stressed from both ends. From the lower end, there has been increasing stress every year. Can they withstand additional stress from the predator end? If we are wrong, should we error on the side of caution? I would think that if we’re low on the stocked numbers that alewife die-offs would be apparent & we could simply stock more the following year. But if we “overstockâ€, it’ll take years (as it has on Huron) for recovery. As resilient as they are, (more so than the alewife) the rainbow smelt population did not rebound as many thought it would. 5. We need the “powers that be†to name a salmon. Now that natural repro has been recognized, is the King now a “native speciesâ€? Just food for thought – Go Colts! Tom B. (LongLine) Ps. If Obama really wanted to create jobs he’d put people to work (as Hoover did after ‘29) by hiring them to fill in the sanitary canal with concrete then hire truckers to do the hauling. i.e make it a highway not a waterway.

Happy B'day CS. Love those pix you put up Tom B. (LongLine)