chinook

I have had many different makes thru the 30 years of fishing the great lakes. I currently have the Cannon Digi-trol IV .They have performed flawlessly for me since I bought them almost 5 years ago. I would take a serious look at the new Cannon's HS. In a nut shell, you won't go wrong with any of the above mentioned riggers. I'm somewhat partial to the Cannons' however. And I have no ties to them what so ever. Just my opinion.

Ray, I too would like to add my sincere thanks and appreciation to Capt. John, for his reports given to Joe and Shirley of At The Oak thru the years. I lost a very good friend to pancreatic cancer 4 years ago who loved the sport of great lakes fishing. Ontario in particular. So when I read the writeup on the Oak site,it kind of was a flashback for me. So Capt. John if you happen to read this, please know there are those of us who are keeping you in our thoughts and prayers.

I agree with Capt John in that it looks like something that Heddon would have made.

If you are fishing out of the Oak and looking to camp, try Lakeside Beach State Park. Only a couple of miles away, it is right on the shore of Ontario thus allowing you to see the conditions of the lake prior to fishing. And you launch at the west launch free of charge when staying there. The A loop IMO is the best of the 7. A-D is non pet with e-g allowing pets. The sites are large compared to most other campgrounds. Each loop has app. 40 sites with each having its own bathroom. Its a good area for kids and when they take their bikes. Been camping there for close to 30 years now and hopefully for more to come.

I can honestly say that I was probably one of the first to try the braid when first introduced off the riggers. The first we tried years ago was Cabelas Ripcord 120 # It did have a positive impact I felt when we were fishing for targets up until around the middle of July. Once the fleas showed up it totally loaded with the fleas and came a pain in the @#$ Also, at times when we were stacking back then with a Roemer release the braid had such a fine dia. that it slipped on occasion. Thus forcing us to switch to the Offshore. It did cut down on the blow back but I must say that i did miss the hum of the wire. So it does have a place and time I.M.O. After I switched back to wire I never went back to the braid off the riggers. Fleas being the main reason.

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but remember last year it was the same weather wise only to have winter set in rather severe, from the first of Feb. thru into almost April and look what we were given.

Mark as others have mentioned, many thanks for bringing this to the forefront. It is much appreciated by many. Also, Dave thanks for listening and acting on this as well.

I personally don't view my placements as beating someone else. Lets face it, this is not the format set forth as the Pro-ams where total numbers caught and weight comes into play. This is simply where the 1 heaviest fish per category places. So to say that a rec beats a charter in my opinion does not fit here. I had a friend who I had the honor to fish with before he passed away. He would be the first to say( and this is not to gloat) that on most occasions that I would out fish him by a 2-1 margin. But he always seemed to catch that one big king for each derby he would fish. Claiming very high honors for not only in the ESLO and Orleans Co at times, but winning an Orleans Co derby as well. So as others have mentioned, this derby is supported by many recs along with charters. At one time there were over 13,000 entrants. Those numbers are greatly reduced. Why would an organization give another reason for some not to participate? I realize that they the derby committee can do what they want. I'm self employed and know all about that. But if someone comes to me and makes a recommendation on how I can better the business. I'm all ears. Is this in the best interest of the derby? By the poll numbers, I believe not.

Mark thanks for bringing this topic up. Although late now for this season, I can't see any reason what so ever that rec boat names are not listed as well. It was stated that some boat names may be objectionable. That may be true, but this would be in the very minority and even at that if the the powers to be felt it questionable then remove THAT name. I called and talked to Dave about this over the summer. I had 2 salmon in the top 20 going into the last 4 days of the summer derby. I stated that I felt it not right to be listing the rec boaters names. Told him that boat name was HeavenBound and felt that is not inappropriate. He agreed but said that was their policy. I then told him that I have been fishing Lake Ontario for going on 30 years now. Been fishing the LOC and previous ESLO's along with the cash bash since their inception. I told him that this is one policy that needs reviewed and changed in my opinion. The at the oak site addressed this not to many weeks ago as well. It is the rec boats along with the charters that are somewhat supporting this derby. Any one likes to see their name on the board That is human nature. To be penelized at the expense of a very few is totally wrong I.M.O.

Ray, thanks for your report. Decided to make a last minute trip up this Sat. Saw your van in the parking lot. Have to give you credit, thought you stayed out all day. Had 2 in our party that had to go to Rochester Sat. afternoon so only got to fish the morning. As you mentioned, didn't even try to fish on Sunday, due to the forecast. We did put another king on the board however. 25# even. As you said purple, frogs and 42 seconds went most for us.-Fished mostly east, for having fished there just 2 days prior,knew where we wanted to concentrate. -HeavenBound

We put another king on the board on Sat. We now have the 10th and 17th place salmon. Don't think they'll hold, but it is nice to know that we had 2 out of the top 20 places at one time. Will be back up on Friday thru Sunday this coming weekend.

We currently have the 12th place salmon. Kind of hard to keep track of members without them ( the derby officials) putting up rec boat names.As Gambler mentioned, I don't agree will this policy at all.

Gambler, agreed. I don't want to be the spoiler here, but having fished in many (almost all) of the ESLO's and LOC's ,I would like to make a few suggestions again. First- I see no need not to include the rec boats name. If the name is offensive to the registration site-do not include the name. That's simple enough. Second- I'd like to have seen the SUMMER derby run most of the summer. Not to conflict with the Fall derby of course. Why is it ending on July15th? It could have been run thru the middle of Aug. when not only most charters are rather busy, since the weather is somewhat more stable and the thermocline is usually in place. Lastly, for the fall LOC, please consider moving the cutoff back until 9:00 p.m. We all know what happens towards sunset. I know we are all fishing under the same format, but some derby fish are being missed out on simply by cutting it off at 8:00 p.m. This, of any change is the one that should be seriously considered. These are not to be offensive in any way,. Simply trying to make a few suggestions that would make these derbies better I.M.O. Anyone remember the Cash Bash days?

Since the first post mentioned about what feature would make the day less enjoyable being without, has to be the electric riggers. I fished for years with manuals, back in my younger days, and didn't mind then cranking riggers up from 100 feet and deeper, especially when temps are deep. Now, being older ,wiser, and the back in not as good as shape, the electrics really shine. Saves time, for one can be bringing in another rod and changing up rigs when the ball is being brought up to surface, etc. So the one feature that I'd miss now, would be my Cannon Digi Trol-IV riggers.

S.T,- the first thing that I would suggest, is that you approach this sport with a degree of confidence, that I feel that you are now lacking, due to your last post. Having said that, when you obtain this, you are more apt to play closer and more attention to the details that will put fish in the boat. Such as some have mentioned, speed which is where I would suggest myself. A starting point would be app. 2.5 GPS if no down speed is available. This is open for tweaking up or down under the current conditions that you fish on a particular day. Next, if you have a way point that has a degree of targets, approach that from various angles until a rod fires, then duplicate. Next-set back off your rigger balls, depending on the depth you're fishing, vary these until again a rod fires. Say if you fish 20 feet off the ball, and then a diver rod fires, that tells that the targets are aggressive and that you may need to shorten your leads off the ball to get the rods to fire more consistent. However, say if you are fishing a core rod and then it fires, the targets are skittish and further set backs off your riggers are needed to get them to go. Fish with a slider or pinned cheaters to get extra lines in the water. A few spoons that you want in your arsenal among others, N.B.K's- Frogs including glow, melons, melatto's, purple thunder( both silver and gold cup)- 42 second spoons, Billy's Habanero's- are just some to start with. There are plenty of others, but these will get you started. As Ray mentioned, scents. I had a friend who had similar problems for he sometimes had trouble getting his rods to fire. He then started using Smelly Jelly in Anchovy( rubbed on his hands) before he fished trying to mask any offensive scents that he may emit. Also, what pound test line are you using? Go with 15-20 pound with spoons and heavier once you start using attractors. Also, make sure you are using a quality bearing swivel to provide maximum action to the spoon itself. Rigger ball colors, I personally like black. I run these on all of mine. What colors are you currently running? As I mentioned in an earlier post don't crowd your spread with having 3 riggers within 10 feet of each other. If you have a rod that fires say at 60 down and your next rod up from that is at 48, lower it down to 60 to see if you can get it to fire as well. So in closing, confidence-know that you are going to boat fish on a particular outing. Pay attention to details. If an outside rod fires on a turn, you need to bump your speed up. If an inside rod fires on a turn you were trolling to fast and need to slow down. Vary leads off your riggers and see what rods start to go. Be it a diver,core or rigger rods. Run spoons that are compatible be it - N.K.s' -Streaks-Dreamweavers etc. Put an attractor in the mix to pull fish into your spread. Off a diver, rigger or both. I know I missed out on some other details, but this may provide something you may have overlooked. Lastly, keep the faith. There are plenty of good fishermen that fish our waters that are willing to help out. Best of luck this season, and always remember- a bad day's of fishing is still better than a good day at work:)

Ray, wish I could take you up on this. My daughter is playing tournament softball tomorrow and Sunday in Pittsburgh. Best of luck and let us know how you did. I know at one time you mentioned how you were involved with the game. The kids grow up to quick as is, especially this being her last.

Ray, have to admit, that made me laugh. Doesn't surprise me coming from you:) Take care.

Erby, the others have described methods well. What I do when I have a mojo rod, one that has been on fire, is to park a similar setup app. 10-15 feet above the hot zone. Then when the mojo fires, lower that rig to the one that just fired. As some mentioned, some times the fish will shut down, if you start to crowd your presentation. As I described in the tackle section regarding a flasher rig esp. when fishing is tough, I won't put anything around a hot rod if it continues to fire. Sometimes less is more:)

Stix, the one pound ball is that of a drop weight. (we use to use them with a Jettison release). Now on wire, simply using a coastlock, attach weight by hooking the eyelet of the weight itself, then attach app. 6 foot piece of 30# mono, followed by flasher/meat rig. This way weight stays attached. There are other methods that can be used to obtain drop back distance and depth with these weights, such as applying it by clip. But I've found that by attaching the weight as described, I can read the rod tip better. In my opinion. As far as dodgers(usually metal), the old school was they go side to side in most cases, however with the use if flies, squids and sometimes spoons, don't be afraid to bump speed to the point that they occasionally spin. You may be surprised. As far as rotators, they could be a # of brands. Spin Drs.-coyotes-Hot spots, e-chips among others.

Pat, secret #2 to boating large kings come derby time or not. Once the thermocline sets up, always have a presentation set at 42 degrees. If you have speed and temp at the ball. Be it an attractor rig, or a spoon. Once you get below 80 feet especially white cupped spoons start to shine. Best of luck to you this year. Make it a safe one as well.

Ray, thanks for the compliment. Some time when you're up at the Oak, I'll set you up with what I consider my best flasher rig come mid to late Aug and into Sept. I'll start to use the larger flashers in mid Aug. in general. Esp. when we derby fish the Orleans Co and LOC derbies, esp. when temps are deep and fish are prestaging. I believe that these rigs when fished in a certain manner, will provide some of the larger kings to be taken. For instance, depending on the mood of the kings on a particular outing, say those laying in the mud, a flasher /meat rig run 5-8 feet off the bottom,with nothing set around it, will take kings when others are struggling at times. I'll put nothing within 20 feet of this rig.I have put a close friend onto this rig (last post) and tactic, and that is all that he now employs at the same time frame. A second similar rig goes out on wire with an attached 1# weight, straight out the back watching rod tip for proper action. Thumb this rig with clicker on to prevent backlash, let it hit bottom, allow boat movement to then staighten line, let out line again hitting bottom ,then set in rod holder. As long as you are fishing the same line, now you know you are fishing awful close to bottom, this is your tail gunning rig that will sometimes really light up.This requires a degree of work, but puts fish in the boat that would otherwise not be. I just disclosed my # 1 secret for derby fishing. Beings that this is a site to make us all better fishermen, and others have shared their wealth of info, I'm glad to do the same.- Take care- Heavenbound

When some post, such as what was first asked, I- as others, assume that the question refers to "attractors" and flies. I'm sorry for posting what has been my best flasher/fly rig at mid day. . Now Pat if you want to catch kings on a flasher/meat rig- 11''-pearl fishscale Coyote with a glow frog head trimmed with red bubble eyes. This rig is almost automatic when temps are deep>80 plus and fish are staging. I know that is not a dodger. but you may want to invest in a few of these as well. 11''white Coyotes or Hot Spots are woth having as well. Just trying to help. Good luck.

Silver 8 inch e-chip pulling a Blue Bubble fly out on wire / black diver. Been my best producer last 2 years esp. during direct sunlight and once the thermocline sets up.

Nick, thanks for spearheading this. I hope that many would get involved. I know when it was first discussed, there was some concern about those who post here and have no means of fishing from a boat. Some looking for a day tourney to get those who can't lake fish involved as well. Irregardless, good luck to all. P.S. how long does the tourney run for? I'd like to see thru Labor day.

Nick, I tried several months ago to get a touney going something along the lines to which you speak of. It went no where. I think ReelDiel was the only to respond. Maybe you will have better luck than me. I suggested tying it into the summer LOC which would then confirm weights. I had all proceeds going to an appointed penrearing project, with bragging rights as you speak of going to the winning boat-weight wise.