Legacy

Looks like a different venue. https://www.cwgp.org/media/pdfs/ritmap-auditoriums.pdf

30# braid is not my ideal choice for copper backer. I think it will do the job on short coppers but on long coppers I would suggest at least 50# or the 65# that I use. The 65# Blood Run Braid that I use may seem like overkill but once you work with heavier braid you will realize that it is much more user friendly. I actually started using the 65# on my slide divers for this reason. The larger diameter braid holds better in planer board releases and on inline releases. Braid can be tough on the hands and the larger diameter line is also less likely to saw through your fingers. Larger diameter means better durability. One of the biggest reasons we use braid as backer is for spool space and its much smaller diameter of braid vs mono. There is really not a whole lot of difference in diameter between 30# and 65#, just a few thousandths. In the end it is really the piece of mind of better break strength that sets it apart from other options. You start pulling around a 700' copper and that tends to put a lot of stress on you backer. Before you even get a fish on you are pulling around a ton of weight on that line. In that scenario the backer becomes the weakest link in the setup and I don't like that idea. I like to fish my stuff to the limits of the leader and nothing else. At the end of the day it will be cheaper that way.

Copper has certainly made its way onto walleye boats. Some of the captains that do double duty and fish Lake Ontario along with Lake Erie have been using Blood Run 32# copper so they can use the same gear in both lakes. Blood Run has also developed 20# copper which has been a huge hit among the walleye crowd. You cannot deny the attraction of snaking leadcore and fish. Unlike copper leadcore struggles to achieve depth. 5' per color has always been tossed around as a general rule of thumb but its far from truth at salmon speeds. In order to come close to these depths you must troll slow and be around 1.8 mph. At 2.5 mph you would be getting about 3' of depth per color.

This chart really tells the story. It really shows the track of copper vs speed. Check out Blood Run for dive charts of an array of trolling coppers and leadcore. https://bloodruntackle.com/dive-charts/

Sorry Pap. Ill post some dive charts for ya!

That love affair exists with copper and wire divers. Apparently copper isn't biased.

You can easily run divers even if you are running multiple coppers on one side. There are days that I like to run multiple divers and multiple coppers per side. I would not suggest running a 200' diver on a 3.5 setting. Chances are a fish is going to trip that diver and end up with tangled in the inside copper line. If I run one diver I will set it at 1.5-2 setting if I run multiples they inside will be at .5 setting and the outside 2. Keep in mind that outside diver will be directly below your inside copper lines. On deployment I will slowly creep that diver out. Smaller fish tend to hit, trip the diver, and work themselves to the middle of the boat. Completely out of harms way.

Ill write something up to cover your questions on running multiple cores and coppers on the same side of the boat. As for the other questions... Rarely do we ever clear lines and we almost never clear out a side. There are occasions but they are rare. I would rather keep the gear fishing and control the fish with the boat. We may elect to turn the boat or drop our speed back or find a more "comfortable" trolling direction to help get that fish to the boat. The exception to this would be the chute copper. It may not be a bad idea some of the time to get it out the way. Boat size really isnt a big factor. Just ask the walleye guys. They run just as many rods from a 18' Lund as I do. It is more about getting comfortable with everything you are doing and becoming more familiar of where exactly things are in the water. Tangles are gonna happen. It is just a part of the game. A million rod holders on the boats helps too!

I see there is a few requests for info on running multiple coppers per side so I will work on that!

Thanks for the kind words guys! Sent from my XT1585 using Lake Ontario United mobile app

Thanks gator. The sentence is just meant to say they are a lot of good big boards on the market. I just happen to like otter boats. Sent from my XT1585 using Lake Ontario United mobile app

Thought I would share the write up on copper I just did with the LOU community. Let me know what you think! For the Love of Copper! http://legacysportfishing.tumblr.com/post/171483484813/for-the-love-of-copper For the Love of Copper! Please tell me that copper has found its way into your boat’s armory! Either you have been glued to land for the past 10 years or you have gotten out on the water and witnessed firsthand the popularity of pulling copper. Why is it so popular? The simple answer is, it catches fish. Just ask the weekend guys or the charter captains or the tournament anglers who have fished copper. Their boats are now overloaded with copper setups. I know because mine is quite substantial these days too. As we all have increased our on the water knowledge, we have slowly increased the number of lines we are trolling, and increased our spread size. More lines in the water equals more opportunities at fish, right? Our early days of trolling the Great Lakes may have started simply with flat lines in the shallows, then maybe we gained confidence in downriggers, then possibly we added divers to the mix. Copper gives us a chance to expand on that spread and a lot of the time… enhance it. Those who have fished with leadcore have already enjoyed the benefits of a sinking line presentation. Whether it is on the surface or depths of 150 feet (or more), copper allows you to continue to target the entire water column you are fishing including extremely deep water which is unachievable by leadcore. The sheer mass of the copper line itself allows it to sink in the water column. Whether it is 25’ length or 1000’ length, the simple science behind copper is length equals depth, so the longer the length copper, the deeper it is fishing. Another advantage of copper is that it allows you to add a level of stealth that is otherwise absent from our existing spread by getting the lure away from the boat and cutting down on influence from boat noise. On those days that fish demand stealth, copper is a homerun. For years, leadcore has been a staple in the spread. Problem is, once the bite goes deep, that bite is no longer reachable with cores. Prior to copper trolling, we would spend our days trolling with a very limited number of rods that were actually taking advantage of that deep bite. Copper can get us there! The story behind my introduction to copper is probably very similar to everyone else’s. A lifetime ago I purchased a prerigged 450’ copper setup off the shelf from the local tackle shop. I marked off every 50’ of copper with spray paint and spent the season fishing it down the chute at various lengths. That chute copper caught a ton of fish and opened my eyes to something game changing and the rest is history. The more and more fish I caught on copper only showed me that I needed more and more copper. From that first one birthed 3 more setups, then 6 more, and now I have copper loaded on setups ranging from 50’-700’. Yes, I said 700 feet but sometimes that’s what it takes! Don’t believe the naysayers! Negativity goes hand in hand with the struggle of learning new things. Copper can be very easy to run but as with everything else there is a learning curve. Test in point… What line on the boat would you feel the most comfortable letting the FNG (new guy) put out? Certainly not a downrigger! Riggers are probably the most complicated thing we run. How about a wire diver? Ha, not a chance. How about the chute copper? Ding, ding, ding… we have a winner. If we can trust the new guy to put out copper than how hard is it really? Not to down play it but let’s be honest, running copper is glorified flat lining. A lot of the negative associated with running copper is stemmed from running “big” coppers. Well just in case you haven’t been told, you don’t need to run a 600 or 700 foot copper to be successful. If you or your crew don’t want to run a big copper then simply don’t. In an average year my short coppers catch more fish than anything else in the boat. While a 500’ or 600’ copper may have limit time on the water, 50’-150’ coppers have found a place in my set from March through September. Diving in head first is never a good idea, so my word of advice is to start small, let copper earn your trust, and earn its spot in your spread. Rods and Reels Starting with a properly rigged copper setup with the appropriate rod and reel are a must. The right gear at the moment of impact will save you from future frustrations and this rule is the same throughout all of our gear. At this point the major players in the industry have acknowledge the presence of copper and have designed both rods and reels to handle the ultimatum. Okuma is one of these companies and they offer some of the best gear to handle fishing copper. The Convector and the Cold Water Series are perfect reels for copper and I currently have both in the lineup. Price, design features, and quality differentiate the differences between the two. Okuma reel series 30, 45, and 55 all have their place in copper trolling and reel size must be properly matched with copper lengths. 4to1 vs 6to1 gear ratios are also something to contemplate. High speed reels lessen the labor of copper fishing and their value should certainly be considered. As for rods, look no further than the Okuma Classic Pro GLT and the White Diamond. Each of these Okuma series offer rods that designed with the sole purpose of copper trolling. Once again… price, design features, and quality differentiate the differences between the two but both are worthy of fish punishment. Here is a couple of Okuma combinations to consider… Good (economical) choice… Okuma Convector reel paired with an Okuma Classic Pro GLT copper rod Best (high end) choice… Okuma Cold Water high speed reel paired with an Okuma White Diamond Copper rod Gear Notes -Medium action rods with large stainless eyes are a perfect match with copper -Roller rods are not necessary for copper -Extend your reel handles for better leverage -Reels with line counters are not needed but may offer a tactical advantage at times -It may be preferred to widen the reel line guide to allow for better clearance of copper knots and swivels -Make sure reels are filled to capacity to ensure better retrieval -Braid, copper, and fluorocarbon combination offer very little stretch so a good quality drag and proper drag settings are a must Backer, Copper, and Leaders High quality line is a must. Blood Run Tackle offers every line we will ever need for trolling on the Great Lakes and has the time to perfect every single line they sell. There is no question that they are my number one choice for spooling every single rod on my boat including my copper setups. All of my setups are spooled with Blood Run Tackle’s 65# Bloodline braid backer, Blood Run Tackle’s 45# super copper, and Blood Run Tackle’s fluorocarbon leader. My personal preference has always been braid as backer. While backing with monofilament may be able to do the job more economically, braid out performs mono on every level. It allows for more backing on the reel, it’s durable, it has a better shelf life… the list can go on and on. There are some different size choices in copper and I believe they have their applications but I have always stuck with the heavier 45# copper for trolling Lake Ontario. 45# has become the standard across all manufactures. 45# copper holds depth more consistently as it is less affected by speed changes and current. Blood Run Tackle’s line of super copper offers its users a product that is softer, making it extremely easier to deploy versus the competition. It is also tin coated to offer some resistance to corrosion and add to its long lasting durability. Fluorocarbon is always the top choice for leader material and it finds itself on every setup. Blood Run Tackle’s fluorocarbon is a must for me in all leader applications. It offers durability, strength, very little stretch, and is virtual invisible making it the perfect choice for leader material. Fluorocarbon’s performance vs monofilament for leader material is not even worth the discussion in my opinion and easily wins hands down every time vs mono. Proper Spooling and Rigging Taking the time to learn proper knot tying and rigging is just as important, if not more important than the gear you are running it on. I have compiled step by step copper spooling instructions to take the guess work and shorten the learning curve. BACKER-COPPER-LEADER -put a wrap of electrical tape around entire reel spool (helps prevent backing from slipping on spool) -attach backer to spool with an arbor knot -spool on desired amount of backing -tie on #3 heavy swivel for backer to copper connection -Palomar knot for backing to swivel connection -if using braid as backer… burn and melt tag end to create a ball. (helps protect against knot slippage) -haywire twist for copper to swivel connection -3/4-1" of shrink tube (1/8") to cover haywire twist -spool on desired length of copper -tie on #3 heavy swivel for copper to leader connection -haywire twist for copper to swivel connection -3/4-1” of shrink tube to cover haywire twist -Palomar knot for leader to swivel connection -spool on desired length of leader -tie on coast lock swivel to business end with Palomar knot SOME COPPER RIGGING NOTES: -2 choices for copper backing are 65# Blood Run braid or 30# Blood Run mono backing. Both products are designed specifically for use as backing material -an Albright knot may be used for all line to line connections in place of swivel -a rod attached line counter can be used to accurately load desired amount of line onto reel -a range finder is a great and accurate tool for measuring out long lengths of copper -line to line connections= #3 heavy swivel or #6 barrel swivel -line to lure connections= ball bearing swivel with coast lock snap -Haywire twist for all copper to swivel connections -copper can be spliced by using a back to back haywire twist -shrink tubing offer great protection to copper haywire twist knots as they ride through rod guides -Palomar knot for all backing or leader line to swivel connections -high quality swivels are a must. (Blood Run Tackle, Dreamweaver Lures, Spro) -copper leader loop knot may also be used for attaching the leader to copper (Make a loop in the copper around a small nail and tightly twist the copper, just as you would with a haywire twist. Attach 3/4-1” piece of shrink tubing over haywire twist. Attach leader directly to copper loop.) -tag your copper setups with their respected lengths with a small piece of white electrical tape and a magic marker or with a label maker Okuma and Blood Run Tackle Spooling chart 65# BRAID BACKER-45# COPPER- 20-30# FLUOROCARBON LEADER 50' Okuma 30 series (Magda, Convector, Cold Water, Catalina) 50' Blood Run 45#- copper 800' of Blood Run 65#- braid backer 55' of 20# Blood Run Fluorocarbon- leader 100' Okuma 30 series (Magda, Convector, Cold Water, Catalina) 100' Blood Run 45#- copper 600' of Blood Run 65#- braid backer 55' of 20# Blood Run Fluorocarbon- leader 150' Okuma 30 series (Magda, Convector, Cold Water, Catalina) 150' Blood Run 45#- copper 400' of Blood Run 65# braid- backer 55' of 20# Blood Run Fluorocarbon- leader 200' Okuma 45 series (Magda, Convector, Cold Water, Catalina, Clarion) 200' Blood Run 45#- copper 600' of Blood Run 65# braid- backer 55' of 20# Blood Run Fluorocarbon- leader 250' Okuma 55 series (Convector, Clarion, Cold Water) 250' Blood Run 45#- copper 1000' of Blood Run 65# braid- backer 35' of 30# Blood Run Fluorocarbon- leader 300' Okuma 55 series (Convector, Clarion, Cold Water) 300' Blood Run 45#- copper 800' of Blood Run 65# braid- backer 35' of 30# Blood Run Fluorocarbon- leader 350' Okuma 55 series (Convector, Clarion, Cold Water) 350' Blood Run 45#- copper 600' of Blood Run 65# braid- backer 35' of 30# Blood Run Fluorocarbon- leader 400' Okuma 55 series (Convector, Clarion, Cold Water) 400' Blood Run 45#- copper 500' of Blood Run 65# braid- backer 35' of 30# Blood Run Fluorocarbon- leader 450' Okuma 55 series (Convector, Clarion, Cold Water) 450' Blood Run 45#- copper 250' of Blood Run 65# braid- backer 35' of 30# Blood Run Fluorocarbon- leader 500' Okuma 55 series (Convector, Clarion, Cold Water) 500' Blood Run 45#- copper 100' of Blood Run 65# braid- backer 35' of 30# Blood Run Fluorocarbon- leader 500' Okuma Solterra 50-L 500' Blood Run 45#- copper 1000' of Blood Run 65# braid- backer 35' of 30# Blood Run Fluorocarbon- leader 600' Okuma Solterra 50-L 600' Blood Run 45#- copper 700' of Blood Run 65# braid- backer 35' of 30# Blood Run Fluorocarbon- leader 700' Okuma Solterra 50-L 700' Blood Run 45#- copper 400' of Blood Run 65# braid- backer 35' of 30# Blood Run Fluorocarbon- leader 800' Okuma Solterra 50-L 800' Blood Run 45#- copper 100' of Blood Run 65# braid- backer 35' of 30# Blood Run Fluorocarbon- leader Running Copper A chute run copper dragged directly off the back of the boat is very simple in design and can be easily added to any spread. The tail gunning effect of a chute copper can be very productive and is a great way to complement our existing spread. While most of us tend to always fish a copper down the chute, I believe copper is best fished with planer boards. Planer boards allow you to get the lines away from the boat, away from your existing spread of downriggers, and into uninterrupted water. Planer boards offer the chance to run multiple copper lines per side which in return expand your spread size both vertically in the water and horizontally, exponentially. The ability to use multiple lines allows you to target layers of water simply by running different lengths of copper. On an average day I may pull 3-6 coppers, depending on the bite, and planer boards are a valuable part of this. Whether big or small, planer boards allow us to effectively run multiple coppers. This is respected as a deadly combination and a widely important piece to the puzzle. Church Tackle Company and Offshore Tackle both offer great options for pulling copper with inline planer boards. These boards are attached to the copper backer and boards are deployed with the longer lengths of copper closer to the boat. Inline boards give the best option of running a copper heavy spread. Experienced copper fisherman that are using these boards are pulling 3, 4, and even 5 planer boards per side on some days. With some simple modifications these boards will easily work for all copper needs, long or short. Tips and Tricks -Church walleye boards, Church TX-22, and Offshore OR12 work great pulling copper 300’ or less -Church TX-44, and Offshore OR37 work great pulling copper 300’ or more -Properly setup inline boards will ride smoothly in the water and pull hard to the side of the boat. -Don’t be afraid to take full advantage of the adjustments on stock inline boards to improve board function and performance -Make sure to clip inline boards to backing only. Never clip releases directly to copper -To keep an inline board from slipping on braid backer simply pull pin, insert backing, spin inline board 4-5 times and then place line in forward clip -if you prefer the board to release while fighting a fish then consider a “Sam’s Pro Release” for the forward board clip -if you prefer the board to stay put while fighting a fish then consider a lockjaw style release for the forward board clip -Keep rod tips up high to keep the line between the rod and board out of the water will help boards from lagging behind -While planer boards give possibilities to fish an unlimited number lines it’s important to excise caution and fish within your means Big boards and mast system offer another copper pulling option. Big boards require a lot more attention to equipment to operate (mast, planer reels, tow line, big boards, and releases). Although the initial investment is substantially more than inlines, once they are setup properly, they tend to be easier to run. The big advantage to big boards is that once a fish hits, it releases, and you no longer have to fight the board along with the fish. The disadvantage is the number of lines per side that you will be able to add. Fishing anything beyond 2 coppers per side is not recommended unless they are of similar size. Tips and Tricks -measure out a long copper setup and mark with spray paint every 50’. This will allow you to be versatile and to fish various lengths down the chute -Big Jon Otter Boats are a great big board but there are many on the market -200# braid is the best option that I have found for tow line. (It doesn’t absorb water, almost zero stretch, releases slide nicely). -Properly setup big boards will ride smoothly in the water and pull hard to the side of the boat -Planer board mast should be mounted high to keep tow line out of the water at all times -Quality releases, (like the Scotty planer board releases), are a must when fishing big boards. “False” releases result in a loss in fishing time and can lead to tangles. Releases that don’t properly let go in time of strikes will result in lost fish or even break offs. -Make sure to clip planer board releases to backing only. Never clip releases directly to copper Deployment Most of the gripes I hear from guys fishing copper is negligence associated to deployment. Backlash and all of the “exciting things” (sarcasm) that go along with it, tend to be the biggest complaints. Most of which can be avoided by just being more patient while setting lines. “Patience is not about waiting but about the ability to keep a good attitude while waiting”. Inspired? I’m sure we could all benefit from a good lesson in patience. It would help us all especially during the skirmish to get the lines back in the water in the midst of a good bite. The root of all evil is backlash and it is simply caused by the reel spool continuing to spin without line exiting the reel. Solutions? First thing is to tighten the spool tension knob on the reel, all the way down. This will apply a light “drag” to the spool and not allow the spool to spin freely. Next make sure the reel clicker is always on while letting line out. Ready? Apply slight pressure to spool with your thumb, drop lure into water, flip bail lever, and begin to pull line off the reel using the opposite hand. Once you get approx. ¼ of the copper off the reel it should start to unspool itself. It is always a good idea to keep some pressure with your thumb until all the copper is off the reel. Once all of the copper is off the reel and in the water, close the bail and adjust your drag. You are now fishing copper! If we spent the time to do this every time we let copper out we would virtually never ever have an issue. Problem is that we don’t and we are painfully rewarded with backlash. A little patience goes a long ways and the more patient you are, equals less problems you will have. Fishing with Copper Copper is not bias to lure selection. Whether it is a spoon, paddle, flasher, plug, or stick bait copper can pull it all! No matter what you choose to run, I highly suggest matching your leader to your presentation. When fishing smaller baits such as fishing stick baits we may elect to leader down to 15#, with spoons 20#, and with plugs 20# test. The lighter leaders I run, will almost always have an overall length of 55 feet. When we are pulling a lot of hardware (flasher/flies, paddles, meat, etc.), I tend to stick with 30# leaders with an overall length of 35 feet. Why the difference in leader length? A 13” paddle pulling cutbait doesn’t need the properties of stealth to make it more effective, but there are days that spoons and smaller baits do. The additional 20’ of leader adds just enough distance to do just that. A day of good fishing puts a beating on our leaders and these lengths also allow for some retying. Once your leader approaches 50% of their original starting length then I would recommend changing them out. Another thing to consider is depending on water depth and clarity, it may also be necessary to lessen leader size even further to help with stealth. Here is some proven leader sizes and lengths - 35’ of 30# fluorocarbon for flashers or paddles - 55’ of 20# fluorocarbon for spoons or plugs - 55’ of 15# fluorocarbon for stick baits Speed and current dictate copper depth. The faster you troll the more friction you are creating with the line and water which ultimately results in less depth. If faster trolling speeds equal less trolling depth then the opposite is also true. Bait choices will also affect the overall copper depth. The drag of flashers and even more so the drag of large paddles will result in less depth verses trolling spoons. Attention must be paid to both bait choices and to speed when considering copper lengths. Current and speed also add a snaking motion on copper as it is pulled through the water providing some additional action. Simply turning the boat causes our inside lines to fall and our outside rods to rise. It’s this act that adds to the action of our baits and some will argue that the snaking motion in the water column is why it is so effective fooling fish into biting. At speeds of 2.2 mph you can hope to achieve 22’ of depth for every 100’ of copper deployed. Is that a perfect formula? No. But it is a good rule of thumb. Just remember… speed will determine everything. A copper depth chart will help with your decision making on the water. It will help you determine the proper copper for the depth you are looking to achieve at the speed you are trolling. As important as it is to refer to a copper depth chart to get you started with depth, it is more important to pay attention to the bite. Ultimately the fish will tell you what where and when they want it. Copper Theory Just like everything else on the boat, somedays copper is hot and somedays it is not. Simply adding 1, 2, or 3 rods of copper to the spread can make us that more effective targeting fish. Imagine if you will a three dimension box below the boat, for lack of a better term, a “strike zone”. As you add downriggers to the strike zone the dimensions are slowly constructed. The width of your spread, the depth of your spread, and finally lengths of your leads determine the dimensions of that zone, each proving their own measurement. As divers are added, that zone will widen and lengthen. Then with the addition of copper it grows even more and the strike zone may easily triple. As this parameters of the strike zone increase so does the amount of water we are able to effectively target. If trolling is about eliminating water and maximizing our time in productive water then adding copper to our spread would help us eliminate water that much faster. While adding more lines to the mix seems to be the easy answer, in my opinion, the most important attribute that copper offers us is diversity. Would you ever head out and not run your downriggers? Well that’s how I feel about copper. Downriggers, divers, and coppers are all great weapons to attack the water every single day we are out there. It is important to diversify your spread and then tailor it to the bite accordingly. The bite is different every day and with a diversified spread we are able to adapt to it much faster. It is also important to make sure that copper compliments your set and vice versa. Copper is an addition to your spread and needs the same attention to lure as the rest of your spread. Attention must be paid towards bait choices and lure selection and must be determined by when and where they are fished. For example if today is a good surface spoon bite then your spread should be complimented with short coppers pulling spoons. If it is deep flasher fly bite then you should be fishing long coppers with similar flasher fly combos. It is very important to build sets based on success. We all know that depth, clarity, and where in the water column typically determine our bait choices and the success of those baits. Then it should go without saying that these same theories should apply to copper also. Finality It is important to realize that as fisherman, we tend to complicate every single thing. Copper can be complex and complicated but it doesn’t have to be. Practical copper applications can be easy and ultimately we need to decide what may work best for us. I won’t toss you into the fire and demand that you immediately purchase numerous copper setups because you don’t need to. Well, not yet at least. For now, keep it simple. Whether you are targeting Brown Trout on the beach, deep water Kings, or offshore Steelhead copper has application that will work for you in any depth of water and any trout or salmon you are targeting. Purchase a couple of different length setups that will get some use and that offer you some versatility in your home waters and get your feet wet. I don’t need to sit here and convince you to get you fully invested in it. Truth is, copper will sell itself and in time, the fishing will dictate what additional copper setups that you will want to add. If there is one thing I am sure of, it is once the fish hit the boat deck, you won’t be able purchase it fast enough. Tight Lines! Captain Rob Legacy Sportfishing © 3/3/18