Gill-T

Works where good bucks to doe ratio exists (competition). Works in backwoods areas with no human background noises Works near a buck's core area esp if local food source i.e. apples or acorns are being hit Works better near cover as they can't pinpoint you as well Use real antlers Start by tickling them like a pre-fight then have at it loud and hard with grinding. I will take up a loud branch like a beech with leaves still attached into my stand and after pulling up my bow with my bow string I attach the branch to the bow string and send it down to the forest floor. When I am rattling I use my foot to move the bow string with the loud branch attached to make a ruckus in the leaf litter below. Begin with a vocalization of a loud-long challenge grunt or snort wheeze, rattle while grunting and end the session with a snort wheeze. This sequence is what I have witnessed in the wild with two bucks fighting. Drop your antlers and quickly grab your bow because they often come running in. Some of the biggest bucks I have ever seen or shot have come to rattling in late October.

I tried montecs and found the same problem. I gave them away. Slick trick 100 grain now

Almost hit two bucks with my car last Saturday that crossed in front of my at 11:00 am. This time of year I don't get up early. Be in your stand by 9 am to catch those late rising bucks in the 10:00 - 12:00 window then go get lunch.....then hunt the evening.

Thanks for the report. Glad to hear good news for once.

Hairy, your strong runs are a testament to higher thinking. Closing certain streams after Sept. 30th to protect spawning salmon shows good management. I do believe those fish returning to your rivers are your fish. There is no logical reason for salmon born out of the Salmon river flow to bypass their natal waters to spawn in Canada. Remember probably 80% of the American salmon out in the lake had their beginnings in Salmon River water and thus imprinted. Penning fish certainly helps but the greatest imprinting happens at inception at the hatchery. We will get it all worked out. I look forward to a much better 2016 season. The rut is around the corner....I'm going hunting.

True Rich. Bills lost again and I am just in a surly mood.

Wow where are your leaves? You guys are much further along.

In reading the DSR reports for October one might be inclined to say that the run of kings on the Salmon River have been very poor. King Davy, you seem to keep putting a cheery spin on runs around the lake despite evidence to the contrary. I asked you in a PM off the record what is the official stance of the DSR group on King Salmon. Since you refused to answer the question perhaps someone else affiliated with the DSR on this site can answer the question. Since the DSR has political clout and is still acquiring more land on the Salmon River, I think Lake Ontario fishermen have the right to know if the DSR is pro vs against vs neutral on the stocking of King Salmon. What is their stance?

Cool.

Wow!!!!

I believe the decade was the warmest on record. Go on Modis/coastwatch for Lake Ontario and look at the Algae blooms going on right now on Erie, Ontario-south shore.....hell even Oneida Lake is in bloom. We are not in the same league as the other Great Lakes. Lady O spits green water.

My eyeballs and common sense mostly. I do actually have a degree in Biology. While many of my colleages on the same tract as me medical/dental school were told to stock up on human biology, I found taking courses in Invertebrate Zoology, Ecotoxicology, Freshwater biology etc etc much more interesting. I can read research journal articles and understand the "geek-speak". Read the LOLA report put out every four years by a Lake Ontario joint commission. The report catalogs the health and make-up of the Lake Ontario food web. There is a new push to study the DCL (Deep Chlorophyl Layer) which is below the thermocline. This layer of water has been found to be extremely productive and is probably driving the short term increase in alewives. While the upper layers of the water column are dropping in productivity, the DCL has increased productivity. This has a negative effect on epilimnion feeders like Emerald Shiners (decreasing population) and favoring adult alewives. The food web has changed. Zooplankton species that dominated the water eight years ago are being completely replaced by new bigger species of zooplankton. Again these changes favor adult alewives. Yes Tileman....I understand the picture quite well. Consider yourself informed.

Nobody disputes this premise. We are only saying we need more Kings right now based on the current bait levels and the survival rates of salmon to adulthood. All gamefish will benefit from a lake in balance. Why are you playing devil's advocate so vehemently? For the life of me I can't figure out what is your angle? Are your DSR cronies not wanting Kings? I would think to keep the parking lots full, the DSR braintrust would be firmly in the camp of pro-kings or am I missing something? Is there an anti-king contingent among river anglers that I am not aware of?

First kill with my heavy 500 grain Easton Axis arrows with 100 grain 4-blade Slick Trick last Saturday. At 20 yards, quartering away, arrow tucked behind last rib, broadhead stuck in far shoulder (lost the front quarter due to blood shot meat). Nothing earth shattering here as far as "bone-breaking penetration". Not much difference than my 325 grain arrow shafts I used to use. The proof will be on a broadside bone impact shot I guess.....and I try to avoid those at all costs. I am really pleased how well the heavier shafts shoot more accurately.

Exactly! Now look at how few fish are stocked in ports like Olcott. I have fished for salmon from Alaska to Chili and I can tell you we are shorting the gamefish capabilities of Lake Ontario. Spend any time trolling in June in Niagara county and you will spend maddening hours upon hours with bait filling your fish-finder with no hooks around it. A lake out of balance.

I do the same with Gobies on Erie. The regulations are a transport issue. Don't put them in a bucket and you won't have a problem. The gobies on the end of your line are going to die via smallmouth anyway. You are doing a service to the ecosystem.

Rich s, the DEC stocked surplus Kings in 2014 probably due in part because they listened to us fishermen who are out there on the water when we told them there was too much bait and not enough predators. The DEC does listen to us to some degree. This is not a fight or pissing match but rather a discussion on how to make things better. Being proactive instead of reactive. Many on this forum obtain their livelihood from the fishery. I could care less if King Davy thinks I am nuts, I harbor zero ill-will to anyone who displays a counter point to the discussion. I have a passion for fishing Lake Ontario since I was a young boy and I have invested a lot of time, thought and money into the sport.....and I don't want to see it go away. There was a window in time recently when the DEC, FWS, and OMNR were so focused on using federal dollars to restore Atlantic Salmon, Lake Trout and Bloater Chubs?? that they took their eye off the golden goose that helps drive the economy.

Davy, I said "should be 100,000 kings running the Salmon" not there ever has been. If we are only going to have one hatchery and only a few tributaries creating naturals, and the state is relying on natural reproduction to fill in the gaps needed to control alewives, then we should be trying to create a run on the Salmon River that takes into account current mortality equations. I also think everyone on this forum would be for increasing steelhead numbers as well.

By your own admission that the fish are probably stopping and spawning on the DSR then what you are describing in not a lot of fish. The run of kings should be 100,000 fish strong. If only 500 fish move up after every rain and gives life to the river for a few days you might be talking about a run of MAYBE 5,000 kings? Not enough to support the fishery's historical number of fishermen. There are 300,000 kings stocked every year in the Salmon River. From the DEC numbers, 76% of Kings caught in the Salmon River by trib anglers are wild so add them to the mix. Add 2 year old early spawners. We are missing fish. There has to be a way with some sort of tripped light-sensor technology that could be placed in rivers to get a crude head count of fish moving up a tributary. It would be nice to put scientific numbers ahead of opinions.

I would have expected a good push of late fish up the Salmon River as it gets stocked the heaviest and there is natural reproduction. The question still is where are the stocked fish in the other tributaries? We have tons of unaccounted-for salmon.

It is a good thing you shot the second one as he probably would be waiting for you the next time you came around LOL. Crazy story.

I like his shows but I often wonder if Charles moonlights as Captain Obvious on those Hotels.com ads. What's this? Late October full moon best time to hunt???? What is this strange phenomenon you speak of? I can't believe he gets paid for this stuff. You be the judge.

So why did they stop? Was there a mortality issue from transport?