Shade

I think maybe the dates are wrong. The dates are all Friday Saturday on the 2010 Calander. I think they are: Niagara - June 6 - 7 Orleans - June 13 - 14 Oswego - July 11 - 12 Sodus - July 18 -19 Shade

The advantages of being retired Howie

Mark, Welcome. I am from West Seneca - Cheektawaga area which is not far from you. We keep our boat in Olcott. If ya want to join us sometime just drop me an email or PM and we will hook up. Howie

The only reason I asked is I do not see many local businesses on the list, for example Tackle Shops, Marinas,restaurants, etc. During the 3 days of the Pro/Am you can not find a room, restaurants are packed as are the Marinas. I am sure these places have been approached in the past but maybe it is time to knock on their doors again. I know in Olcott and Wilson during the Pro/Am Motels, Hotels, Cottages are booked, Restaurants are full and marina dock spaces are prime. Lot of money exchanges hands for gear as well. I do not know what the sponsor pack looks like but even some discounts would expand the prize packet. Just a Thought!!!!!!! Shade

Is that the complete list of Sponsors posted on the Pro/Am website or are there some missing? Shade

Sure looks like a bunch of suspicious charactors to me with the scruffy beard, smerk type smiles and beedy eyes. Shade

Paul, 716-704-9242 Howie

Paul, When I came back to lake Ontario in July 2006 things changed dramatically from the 70's to the mid 80's. To get back in the swing of things we decided to try out some charters to see and learn from their experience. We did 6 charters in 2 months. The fishing in Olcott was really slow which forced us to head to the Oak. We did 2 Charters out of Olcott and 4 out of the Oak. Two of the 4 from the Oak where given to us through local research and the other 2 we contacted through the internet. We had a good time on 4 of the charters and a blast on the other 2. We new we where not going to fish the Oak it was to far so we had to concentrate our efforts in Olcott. In 2007 we fished our first Pro/Am and it was painful. Do not get me wrong as a team we had fun we just sucked as fishermen OMG. What we found that was really funny is 40+ boats left Olcott harbor and where we were fishing there wasn't a boat in site. We new then we had a lot to learn. So I found this site and 4 names came up as far as helping us on fishing the BIG O. Ray K, Billy V, Yankee Troller and Paul C. I was unable to book a charter with you guys because you were booked on the dates we had available until we finally got a chance to fish with you Paul. Ray has always answered my questions (once you figure out the words) and I still thank him for his help. Billy and Yankee helped us put together a basic arsenal and you enlitened us on how to read the water an fish a variety of conditions and connect with the gods. I certainly am not taking away from all the other directions, support and help we got from eveyone on this site along with a lot of reasearch we did on our own. I am an Amature fishermen and I want nothing more than to see the Pro/Am grow especially in the AM division. To see the decline as the event moves east is sad. To hear individuals tell me why they will not participate is just as sad because it can be fixed. I think there is a lot more at stake in Pro division then in Am division as well as the experience and knowledge the Pros have. Most, if not all ,the AM's are more week end and maybe a vacation week fishermen. We do not have the luxury to fish 7 days a week from May through September not to say you captains do not work hard to satisfy your clients. We do not have sponsors to give us gear or front our entrance fees although i am sure there are a few AM teams that have a sponsor. Having sponsors is important to your Charters. I am willing to compete with those few fortunate AM teams but what I can not compete with is Pro division helping AM teams on where to go, what to use, how fast to troll and how deep to fish. Please do not tell me that does not exisit or it does not always help because I saw it first hand. Even if the team does not win but just having the advantage to put 2 extra fish in the box can improve your standings. If you want to allow open communications, keep it between the divisions. You will never police this but knowing that the penalty may DQ you life may lesson the chance and then the humiliation that you would indever not to say the tag put on a charter Captain would have to make you think before you break the rule. Keep in mind that rules are implemented for 2 reasons. 1) to let you know what you can do and 2) let you know what you can not do. Rules in events are impletemented, removed or reworded most times because they are either outdated, forced by new technology or some sort of unfair act was attempted. When this happens it is the resposibility of the committee to implement any changes without taking each issue to a vote. But when you are asked by the many to support your decision it is the committees responsibility and duty to stand up as a committee, not one speaking for all, and support your decision. This does not mean the committee has to explane every move they make but when it attracts this much attention, it absolutly needs to be discussed. I heard the Communication issue has been on going for sometime now so I did some research. This discussion has been going on since late 2006 on this Site alone. There was one response by you Paul, where you said something like the response was overwelming to open communications which implies that there was some sort of vote, pole or emails to warrent a change. I think after 3 years it is time to put this to bed and either take another pole or step up to the plate with rest of the orginizers and end this. I volunteered to serve on the committee and I give you my word that my personal preferences will be set aside and I will consentrate all my efforts on whats good for the Pro/Am and give 110% on the duties that are assigned to me.I want the Pro/Am to succeed as well. Obtaining more sponsors and new participants will help it grow but I still stand on working to bring back some who left. As long as I am on the committee open forum discussions on rules ends with me here. Just one more plea for help. I have fished Lake Ontario from 1970 - 1985 returning in 2006 and I still have not caught a Brown Trout. Help me put at least one in box this season. Thank you Paul, I do not drink but heres to you and Rod ..... I'll buy the first round come spring. Howie

Paul, Seems you want to get involved in my business. I am curious to know now that you opened another can of worms, what does Bob Buck have to with this post? I have not spoken to Bob Buck since August. Please explain, I am sure that everyone on this Website is loosing sleep over this. Howie

Done 144 Shade

Thanks Tom for the committees concerns. It clears up some comments that where made earlier. It is true that you still need to catch fish regardless of information you may get. We all know that you can be fishing in 90 feet of water, 50' down, temp at the ball is 53 deg., trolling at 2.3 and bait fish show all over your screen and ya still can not hook one. You get a call from your buddy who is also fishing the event and he tells you to try 70 fow. 50' down, run your spoons 50 back and run 2.2. All the sudden you fill your box. I have no problems with that. Now you call a friend you know is fishing and is not in the event and he tells you run to these coordinates, use these lures, at this speed, at this depth and you fill your box. IN MY OPINION, ONCE AGAIN FOR ROD, IN MY OPINION thats A FORM of cheating. If you get or give information that helps you or them climb the board from the other division, in MY OPINION that is unethacle. To fill your box you have to 1)find then 2) catch the fish. So common sense tells us that if someone tells you where the fish are you chances obviously increase. Rod if you are through with me then I guess I will return your ring. I never called you or anyone else a cheater. I have the up most respect for you and everyone on this site. If thats how you took my comments then I openly appologize to each and evey member on this site and to all who are on the Pro/Am committees. Howard Nola

Rod if you have knowledge on why the committee is unwilling to discuss or entertain these rule changes it would be nice to share that information so the rest of us can better understand his train of thought. I can not imagine why you would want to continue to allow communications, to me it is a form of cheating. I also do not understand why the change in the AM start and finishing times. I remember one year that we waited in a line to get our fish checked in. The next year they opened the check area up earlier which worked out great I thought. The Am's left the marina 10 minutes before the Pros and everyone started fishing at 6AM. I have no idea why this was changed. It seemed to work well. Shade

Sorry Rod. By fishing in both the Pro and Amature divisions as well as being an Observer I have a better outlook on the Pro/Am event. All I am saying if a rule needs to be changed don't implement the old rule. build off the new one. You understand what I am saying. The old rule did not work either, if it did it would not have been changed. Just keep it simple. I can only think that if the committee saw the first post on the communications where there were many suggestions on how to police it he probably saw what a headache the change would cause or just ask the committee why they are so against the change. Keep it simple...No Communications between other boats period. Forget about putting cell phone in a box or keep it on speaker or have the Observer be the cop. We are all adults and we have to believe that we will act like one. Keep the rule simple but the penalty is bared from any tounaments or events up and down the lake for ever. There will be a difference of opinion no matter what changes are proposed but what I do believe in is everyone involved has a vote and everyones vote counts. I also think that a meeting should be held 60 days prior to the Niagara Pro/Am and the captain from each team should attend to discuss changes. To keep it simple only the 2 most popular topics will be discussed. Just my suggestion............. Howie

Do you have a death wish my friend? Asking the right way, Honey are those new cloths, NOT, HOW MUCH DO YOU WAY? I want ya to be fishing from inside your boat Ray not from underneath it. Howie

Rob and Tom, Please do not read anything in this but I can not see how the Pro/Am can be titled the best event on this lake. I have only been apart of thr Pro/Am for 4 years and in each of these years there seems to be very vocal and high profile rule change request. In 4 years the rule on how and how many fish you put in the box has changed. Last year the observer was the hot topic. This year it looks like the communications will draw #1 followed by Amature starting time then recovering the Amature lost 1/2 hour of fishing time. The other thing I question is as the tournament goes up the lake it seems to draw less and less participants especially in the Amature division. I hear little if any contraversy with the Scotty, LOC, weekly Olcott or the Salmon Derby(out of the Oak). These events seem to run rather smoothly. This is no attack on any individuals on the Pro/Am committees, I think they do a fine job. The puzziling part, these rules have been changed several times. When I entered it was the best 6 fish, changed to the first 6 fish, back to the best 6 fish I think. Started with No communications, changed to allow communications and now ya want to go back to No Communications. I truly support the No Communication proposal as well as the AM.s starting time and restore the 8 hours of fishing time. My team both fished the Pro/Am and were Observers and I do not think it is fair play to allow communications on where the fish are(including GPS coordinates), lures to use, speed and trolling direction. I can see telling your buddy that you are at the Bar, Micro Towers and using flies or lures in, lets say, 50 over 90. The fun when entering a tournement is using your skills by putting a program together and seeing it become successful. Having someone telling where to fish, what to use and how to fish can not be very fulfilling especially when its a Pro telling an Amature seems unfair. Just my opinion guys. Do not beat me to bad . Tom, Did you get my email on fly's? Howie

For accuracy and distance - 22-250 or 222. In my own opinion a 22 Mag or 17 under power and a 243 or 270 is overkill. Shade

Good articles Ray. Just what does the DEC use to compare the kill ratio to for them to say they are accurate within 1.9%? I have been hunting deer for 45 years and the first 5 I hunted Allegany State Park. You did not leave the park with out checking your deer, the park police had every entrance manned. At one time they had a manditory check station on route 16 in Holland. They later made it a volunteer check station because of the traffic issues and the station is only opened the first 2 days of the opener and the first Saturday. Since my departure from state land hunting to farm country and owning my own land I do not believe I've seen 10 Game Wardens at any given time. Another variable in the DEC estimations is a lot of hunters live on farms or have friends in the south towns that hunt their property. The deer goes from the field to the barn. I was a southern tier resident for 7 years and very few deer tags are sent to the DEC. As far as Coyotees, wolves, cats or any combination I believe they have an impact on wildlife. Maybe not the amount most believe have on the defenseless fawns but on other game animals and farm animals as well. I can only comment and ask why the season on these preditors is during the regular hunting seasons instead of during the spring when they are most vaalnurable? I personally do not think there should be a specified season at all. In my opinion the reason some believe there are no deer in NY is 1) high hunting pressure, 2) low hunting pressure, (where you have a large areas of woods and farm land with few hunters to move the deer), 3) poor management (to many young deer are harvested) and 4) low food and water supply. The first thing before you lease, purchase or just get permission to hunt is to scout the property and look for deer signs, food sources and find out how many hunters are in the area. Then if you decide to hunt the area put up some trail cameras to see what you have in the area and especially look for doe not just bucks. Scout, scout and scout until you find food sources, does and bedding areas. Scouting works for us. My opinions and comments are only based on the areas I have hunted, Cattaraugus, Chatauqua and Allegany counties. Howie

I also signed. Howie

Well said Ray. This site was designed as place to go if ya needed some advice or guidance on fishing and hunting but it seems to have expanded to a place where in times of grief or hardships that the support is unbelievable. I personnaly feel blessed to be apart of this family. My family and I truly wish all a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year......See ya on the water The Nola Family

I really do not blame ya Paul... How's the new addition...I'll bet the little one helps heel the wounds... Howie

My boat is named Bananas out of Olcott and we had a great year in Lake "O" last season but we never had the fruit on board like Paul C. of Free Spirit did .. Shade

great news Rick..... Howie

What Stan has is a slider diver a slider line is when you take your pole and put a large colored bead on before you attach a swival. Then you take about 10 - 15 feet of line and put a ball bearing swival on one end and a swival on the other. Attach your a spoonto the pole and one on the leader line ( most like the same spoon on each line). Attach the leader line on the pole line with the swival above the bead so it can slide up and down the line on the pole. Hold the slide line and let the pole out 15 - 20 feet, attach the pole normally to the release on the downrigger still holding the slide line and send the downrigger down 15. Throw the leader slider line in the water. Continue to send your downrigger down to your preferred depth. The slder line will stay about 10 - 15' above the line that is attached to the release on the downrigger. I am sure that one of these guys will explane it to you better and they may have some pictures. Shade