chowder

John, are you running Mag divers? I'd use them before I went to 20lb wire. On LO the 20 would probably be fine but in a typical Cayuga Jul/Aug the fleas might drive you nuts and I don't think you'd gain anything that Mags wouldn't do for you anyway. -Andy

Mr Komrowski is correct in that the devil is in the details and that in many ways it's the bullet and the powder choice, etc that makes a particular caliber choice more or less effective. However, some caliber choices are much more effective than others to cover a wide range of hunting activities for a wide range of shooting abilities. I used to use an old savage 222 w/ hand loads to ear hole does for a QDM manager, but frankly I can't see why anyone would want to teach a youngster the art of hunting and then have to deal with the likely discouraging result from a marginal shot that came from a predictably poor choice of a weapon. Let's all remember that both stalking/still hunting and shooting are events that are the result of a game of averaging. Put the odds in your favor- show the youth above average hunting skills, show the youth to hunt in above average locations and teach the youth to use a weapon that is likely to have above average results in a close range situation. In my book that precludes a 222, 223 and the 243 for white tail because they are unlikely to produce above average results in below average situations. My first choice is still the 50 cal muzzle loader with open sights because it's inexpensive and eliminates the typical inaccuracy of the 12 bore slug gun at 50yds. If this choice cannot be implemented then I'd go w/ the 12 or 20 gauge shotgun w/ open sights and keep the youngster in heavy cover where the shot is going to be 30 yards or so. If the youngster has truly become predictably accurate w/ a rifle (which is far from the norm at 16 no matter what some will say!) then a 270-308 is a good choice as long as you choose ammo from the upper end of the price range. Remember it really is all about maximizing the youth hunters average success and enjoyment rate.

Elliot & I will see u guys @ BP around !2:30. If I see splashing in the fish tank I'll know that the rest of you are getting ready to eat! -Andy

Here's a couple thoughts that occur to me about this topic. We jig for lakers on the Fingers and off the Bar w/ success and get an occasional brown or atlantic in the bargain but the lakers are very concentrated near the bottom which is ideal for the jigging presentation) and though they are a good fighter on a jigging rod they don't rip line like a King. So it seems to me like you've got 2 things against you when jigging for Kings; 1. It may take you a long time to locate an active king that's well situated for the jigging presentation to work, and 2.) If you do find one and hook up you are gonna want something w/ some serious line on it and a much longer or different style leader to allow for some stretch than we traditionally use to avoid tearing the hook out w/ the super braid.Sure seems like it would be a riot to try though!

This thread has gotten to intellectual for me, what I want to know is when & where are we meeting/eating,etc. -Andy

Okuma Blue Diamond 7'6" for my FLX rigger rods, For divers I like the Talora TLA70ML fast action rigger rod on the Fingers (on LO I usually use my 8' Talora rollers). I use the Okuma classic pro & ugli stiks to haul copper & core on both the FLX and LO. -Andy

Welcome! You will find lot's of practical advice here, how's the fishing over there on Otsego anyway? -Andy

Little Tom, Spooling wire is not difficult. I spool all my reels with a cheap Berkley spooling setup. I like the AFW camo wire, just keep the spool of wire tight and put pressure on the line with something plastic as you wind it on. I've never had any problem. Couple things about wire & divers; 1- Use any color diver as long as it's black ( use a white marker to put a P and S on em so you let them out on the correct sides) .2- Always use 30lb leaders w/ the big coast loc swivel snaps for your dipsy leaders. 3- Don't take the divers off your wire, just velcro strap the trip arms to your rod handle & then wrap the leader around your reel and the secure the coast loc to your reel handle w/ a hair zingie (this way you save time and your wire won't pigtail on you!) Good Luck! -Andy

I think I understand the 2 different pellet load in the heavy metal,still trying to back up & get an overall view of this whole thing. Coming to the conclusion that if I could shoot a shotgun 1/4 as well I handle a rifle (or set up dekes better) I wouldn't be looking at loads and chokes near as closely!

Very sorry for your loss Ed. Good to see Stanley spent a lot of time doing what he loved! -Andy

Have a great day Mark! -Andy

After trashing our mod chokes using the BC loads in 3 different Stoeger 2000s I'm keen on this thread. We are gonna have to start out fresh next year (sept early goose season 2012) with a new game plan for the whole goose season! At first it seemed like the BC was a tremendous advantage but then results went from good to bad. After removing the chokes for a final cleaning I can see why- they all ballooned enough to be almost impossible to remove in the section b4 the threads! Maybe the Kent's w/ a Kicks choke is a good alternative? The Carlson choke is much lower priced - any opinion on these and a good load for geese? Let's keep hearing different alternatives.

Super glue (always keep a tube,protected from the sun, w/ the e-tape & other trip savers)

Jason, hope you had a great B-Day! See you guys on Seneca. -Andy

Yo Skinnyskins Small business owners have to compete with huge chains stores in order to eke out a living. It's naive to think that on top of everything else they have to go through to serve the local customers that they should have to have a return policy that places even more responsibility on them than their competition has to bear. Grow up & face the music like the rest of the human race man! I truly hope you attain some perspective before you have to deal with some of life's truly serious issues. Good Luck! -Andy

Welcome back Bill, see you & the family on the water! -Andy

Gotta use super braid for jigging-let's you feel the "tick" that is a fish contacting the jig, baitcasting reels are the way to go-this is fishing by feel and by sonar. Search thru archives for info on jigging-lots there! Power Pro is the s-braid of choice by most. Can be used on rigger rods though few do (issues w/ fleas later in season,slipping in releases,etc). Power Pro can be used as an alternative to wire on diver combos, but again you will want to look at ameliorating flea issues (like using 60lb test PP, fat line = poor flea adherence, but don't use 60lb PP on a jigging setup) -Andy

The high quality,insulated,waterproof coverall mossy oak suit for 75% off was the best deal on anything in any store I have ever seen anywhere!!

Relatively inexpensive jigging combo= Rhino RBC300 or equivalent baitcaster spooled w/ 12lb superbraid & 12' FC leader and a 6'6" MH UgliStik- remember you gotta be able to really sock the hook set to em down in 60+FOW. Leave that combo for jigging & then go w/ the 47 LC spoled w/ mono and the BWD 1101 for riggers -not sure the BWD 1101 would be my 1st choice for a diver rod but heck, your diver combos are separate from your rigger combos anyway! Just keep asking questions- you'll get there! -Andy

IMHO yotes have a tremendous survival instinct which tends to make the 22lr a poor choice for anything other than head shots under 50 yds.( I have eviscerated several dogs w/ 80-120 yard .270 shots and have tracked them for 50-80 yards.) For short range I really think you are much further ahead w/ the 3" Hevishot /Carlson dead yote choke combo.My boys have taken dogs out to 54yds w/ this setup. I have started packing an auto loader which patterns nicely using a IC choke and 00 buck in addition to my long range predator rifle setup (22-250) for use in very short range situations(15-20 yds)-Andy

Flawless service from Verizon from Niagara to Port Ontario (except for that one phone I had that's at the bottom of Wright's Landing...)

This guy has it right! Train the lad to use a muzzle loader with open sights (I'd probably go w/ 100 grains of powder and the 245 grain power belt we use in everything else but that's academic) IMHO starting young hunters out with even a .243, although well intentioned, is absolutely the wrong path to go down. Inexperienced hunters are just flat out going to be the most likely candidates for the marginal shot. Marginal shots w/ a small caliber rifle typically leads to heartbreaking results. An inexpensive open sight inline muzzle loader teaches many different lessons about sight picture, follow thru,etc and has the energy essential to creating massive damage even on marginal shots. When you are tracking a kid's first deer is not the time or place to contemplate theoretical ballistic possibilities.

His 'better than original' parts have been a great help to me on several reels & responses to emails on technical issues have been nothing short of incredible! -Andy

Guys on here will have lots more info than you will probably get from one charter captain at a seminar. here's the basic game plan for salmonids on LO. April- Brown trout and Cohos in shallow water w/ flatlines off boards, + an occasional King May- West end of the lake (Wilson,Olcott,etc) depending on temps & wind (which moves around big masses of water) there may be some good early King fishing, Lakers & browns,cohos are often more dependable . On the East end (Sodus to Oswego), good King fishing is rare in May, most target browns that have moved deeper since April. June- West end usually getting very good for Kings (Pt. Breeze "The Oak"),East end variable depending on whether proper conditions and bait are in place. July-West end good (The Oak), East end usually getting predictable for Kings. Aug- typically good east & west leading up to the stage/spawning (biggest fish of the year) You might want to be planning to try & fish the Fingerlakes this winter thru March- then target browns on LO in April into May, then the Fingers again into June. Good Luck! -Andy

That's a slick looking ride, good luck!