chowder

Diver, nice job on the yote! Curious as to what you are using for calling? My son & I just got into this last winter & the guy who got us hooked moved out of the area b4 we could really get a handle on that part of the deal.The fellow we started hunting yotes with had a Fox Pro electronic caller. I'm in on the Bark @ the Moon Forum but I thought I'd get your input since you are obviously into the predator thing. Thanks, -Andy

I'm with Ray on this drilling out the flash hole idea- it just sounds like bad medicine to me. Have any of you guys who have done this consulted a credible gunsmith who is very experienced with black powder arms? It seems to me that the exact dimension of that hole was arrived at by an engineer using specific criteria. As a 'jack of all trades' I'm all for making stuff work but personally I draw the line on my own creativity when it comes to either 'alternative' electrical configurations or modifying firearms.I'm not trying to throw water on this discussion but I'd like to see the exact scientific basis behind the idea of enlarging the flash hole from a professional gunsmithing authority. -Andy

At this point in my life I'm using just the pellets and only my inline 209 type guns. First 'misfire' was my first afternoon out during blk pwdr Thurs 12/16 -my Accura would not go off, though the primer lit ok . I put in 3 fresh primers in a row attempting to take a doe @ 100+yds. I eventually pulled the plug in my stand, pushed out the old load & reloaded, this 'fresh load would not fire either. Next afternoon I took out my Traditions Pursuit which I had shot at the range that morning and that gun only lit 1/2 the charge. I put powder from a fresh box and used brand new Winchester 209 Triple Seven special primers in both guns the next day and still had mixed results at the range. So after talking to Ray I cleaned em his way & my Accura fired nicely for me on the last day I could go (story above). In addition my buddy, who was having issues w/ his CVA Optima, borrowed my Traditions Pursuit and was able to take his first deer of the season yesterday , the last day, only a few feet from where I got mine the day before. Kind of looks like the flash hole was the culprit but other possibilities are certainly possible.

Tell us more.

I'm not trying to start something here but, at least for me, after you've killed a hundred or so deer a little killing starts to go a long way. Maybe it's just me getting older but it seems to me that even though I do kill a lot of deer and other game animals, the meting out of death is an act to take seriously, because it's final and profound and it makes the meat something more than just food. Any time there seems to be a good reason to pass or not to pass on a deer I do so with no regrets. -Andy

I've never seen a true white deer but I passed on a pie bald doe the last day of muzzy about 5 years ago. I'd heard a couple of people in the general store a few days before calling her "Pie Crust". I didn't see the point in killing the thing and no way I was gonna be known as 'the guy who shot Pie Crust'. I've seen 2 mature pie balds and they were kind of dinky looking. -Andy

Hey Ray, glad you enjoyed some good ole Chenango county hospitality! You & Musky are welcome back anytime and there is another place just down the road in Greene that's owned by a LOU member we ought to check out too and I hear it's loaded with all kinds of wild game! -Andy

Well, that explains a lot! I hung my whites up in the mudroom after my hunt last night so they wouldn't freeze solid and this morning my wife say's to me " Something smells very bad in the mudroom, I think one of the barn tomcats got in and sprayed on your hunting costume". P.S. Musky, I locked up that arch w/ 2 log chains before I left you 2 guys there alone when I went to town & I left my sister in law w/ my 870 12 gauge and a box of shells and told her under no circumstances was she to answer the door!

I was getting ready to post a question this morning about some frustrating misfires I've been having w/ Triple 7 in my inline muzzys when Ray called to see about coming over for a short hunt. Anyway when he got here I was kind of busy but described my series of misfortunes and he promptly got out a spool of thin wire and described how how, by putting a kink in it, he runs it thru the breach plug hole to get it cleaned out really well. I must admit I was a bit skeptical that it would be an improvement on the little needle I use but I figured what the heck and cleaned the breach plug as Ray advised. Long and short of it I managed to get done w/ my days work at 3:30, threw on my winter whites, grabbed my CVA Accura and headed out. Making sure I stayed as far away as possible from where Ray told me he thought the deer would be based on his morning hunt I soon saw deer movement in a distant swamp. Bellycrawling in as close as I could I saw what looked like cover and slid into a frozen ditch. Except the ditch was not exactly completely frozen... Anyway I'm lying there trying to line up a 120 yd shot w/ the freezing ditch water rising into places where freezing ditch water should not be and I'm thinking I hope Ray is right about this 'fire hole' cleaning thing. Well people, Ray's cleaning routine worked, the gun went off perfectly, the big doe took 2 steps and went down in a heap. Quite a Season finale. Thanks Ray!!

You don't have to try making long range shots to miss! Last night I had 5 does around me in an Alder thicket. Some of the skippys got around down wind of my stand and the whole bunch got uneasy. I was trying to get a clear shot at the biggest doe and when they got uneasy I felt compelled to go w/ a quickly lined up dead on chest shot at 20 yds. Kaboom but no deer! I'm standing there trying to figure this out and I see the thick shattered branch that was right in front of my barrel as I looked thru the unobscured scope. I don't think even this smokeless steroid enhanced Savage you guys are talking about would have helped a bone head like me out of that priceless maneuver.

Dag, Pete a 610 yd chuck shot! That's seriously impressive! I realize that I sure have a lot to learn in order to get a handle on this predator hunting thing (the guy who got me started into this stuff moved out of the area ). First off I can see that you and High Bidder are right about the sitting/tall bipod issue. We were successful w/ the rotating big game bench b/c it was really just like sighting in at the range, but the whole setup was pretty awkward to move around and it only worked for 1 day at each farm & then the does would simply stop feeding in the open (but not b4 we got a few at each place ). Any way we got some does killed & I now have a decent shooting bench. Following up on your post about prone shooting I found some good info on the correct form to assume for using the shorter bipod for prone shooting and I can see why this is considered the best position for long range and varmint hunting. I'll have to study up on this whole thing & hopefully my son & I will have some fun w/ the yotes this winter. Thanks Pete and High Bidder for your comments & please pass on any more tips you have for getting into the long range shooting action! -Andy

We wound up getting this whole swiveling bench rest rig for less than the bipod. http://www.mackspw.com/Item--i-BIAAR03B ... edium=feed We developed a system for dragging it around on several farms in a ice fishing sled and used a cheap pop up blind to provide a wind break and cover for the whole setup. I'm telling you this setup was the bomb for doe management w/ plenty of support for long range shots (I took 2 does out past 300yds w/ my 7mm Mag. using it) 2 of my landlords, and 2 buddies used it as well, so it was instrumental in taking numerous deer. If you leave this rig setup overnight, which we did most of the time, you want to get some plastic under the feet so they don't freeze to the ground. Best part is now I've got a nice shooting bench too! -Andy

Well, I'll give you my 2 cents on this; The common issue w/ the .243 for deer is the relatively low lbs of knock down force (in a ballistics chart this called "Energy").It's this 'force' or "Energy" that creates the instantaneous shock value and trauma associated w/ 'knockdown'. Typically people try to overcome this w/ a hotter load but this can very easily lead to unexpanded pass thru, especially under 80yds. I do think you might want to move up to 130 grains but I wouldn't go over that, unless you are going to be doing a lot of longer range hunting. A .243 in capable hands (and it sounds like yours are!) is a perfectly fine deer rifle and I would not hesitate to hunt w/ one for a minute. As others have suggested I think you would have better results w/ the Federal 'Noslers' . My personal favorite for deer hunting is the 7mm Mag, and I have had few deer move very far if at all after getting whacked by this round because it's got tremendous energy which if coupled w/ correct expansion leads to massive wound trauma and instantaneous shock value. That being said I used to see a fair number of deer I shot w/ hot .270 loads take right off w/ little blood on the outside. No matter what caliber you use you will eventually see a wide variation in the way the bullet wound affects the deer, especially on 'classic' broad side shots behind the shoulder under 80yds. -Andy

Hey Vic, have a good one & I hope you got at least one of the snow blowers back on the job. -Andy

Heavy duty diesel pickup trucks are very expensive to own & maintain (older, poorly maintained units are notoriously hard/impossible to start in cold weather) and only 'pay for themselves' if you operate a business that requires you to haul a heavy payload or trailer day in and day out, otherwise they are an expensive 'toy'. Some people can truly afford to own & operate a 'toy' and there's nothing wrong w/ that & some people (cattle haulers,heavy duty truck repair people,etc) can actually pay for a diesel truck by using it but way too many people burn a lot of fuel and maintenance dollars up long after the 'thrill' of having a HD diesel truck is gone. Although I'm a dairy farm owner and have a lot of very large farm equipment and have to get large & heavy parts & tires, and tow heavy trailers and wagons on a regular basis I have never in twenty five years, owned anything larger than a F-150 Pickup w/ a small V8. I realize that my situation is very different from yours but I would look hard and realistically at the total costs of owning 2 older used vehicles vs. one modest, later model vehicle (SUV maybe?) that could handle both the bulk of life's obligations and your recreational desires at the same time. Anyway, that's my 2 cents. -Andy

Pearson 28' Triton is the boat you want. Time tested hull (been making them since the 60s), can sleep 4. These are classically designed and forgiving boats and from my personal experience can handle some very rough water. -Andy

I'm figuring there will be a few that will get past you guys that won't get past me

Good to see somebody is kicking this winter fishing season into gear! Thanks for the post. -Andy

It's the real deal, that's for sure! -Andy

another good source for hard water info http://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/index.php

I had a pair of those planing,line twisting pancake weights and I practically gave em away. If they are west coast progress I guess I'll stick w/ A-TOM-MIK, Michigan Stinger, DW, and Honey Bees! In all seriousness though I do think that a lot of the tackle that originated in the NW coastal fisheries were the 'origin' of a lot of our tackle (flashers,dipsy divers,squids,meat rigs etc) Although squids have sort of become 'old fashioned', I still like them for the early am b/c they have a lot of glow. It's my distinct impression that the NW coastal commercial trollers are probably the best 'fisherman' on the planet! -Andy

That's a heck of a buck, congrats to the Ray Bro! -Andy

Hey Andrew that new rig you got should be just the ticket for this dishy weather, if you need a crew let me know & then I'll take you out in my open 16' so you can remember what you are (not) missing out on -Andy

OK, this just goes to show what can happen if you hunt long enough! Last week I was experiencing a lot of frustrations w/ some of my employees and by Friday I felt like I should just go off and be by myself. My sister in law had taken off w/ our old Jeep which most of my hunting stuff was in but I managed to piece together some camo and dug out an old 870 w/ a slug barrel on it & found 2 slugs for it.At the last 2cd I realized I had no gloves and was forced to crash back into the house w/ my boots on. After rooting around in a rubbermaid tub labled "kids deer stuff' I found a brand new pair of heavy mittens w/ flip up finger & thumb covers (more on these later). I was not in a hard core hunting mood to say the least but I put my nose into the wind and found myself down in a brushy thicket where there is what we think of as more or less a 'bow stand'. My complete lack of scent prevention led me to believe this particular stand was my best chance w/ respect to the prevaling wind. Mostly I just wanted to be out in the woods and away from anything having to do w/ the business. Time drifted by pleasantly, I observed a pair of grouse, a wood pecker occupied my attention for quite awhile. I saw 2 doe come out into a meadow about 500 yds away & I watched them for awhile too. I was just peeking at my watch to see it was 4:30 and thinking to myself 'hey in a half an hour I can go in, legitimately have a beer and make dinner for my brood' when I catch some movement w/ some decent horns in the brush over my shoulder. Auto pilot mode takes over, heart beat up & adrenaline on, I position myself for close action. I still can't get much of a look at the buck b/c it's just too thick and he is trotting his way towards me at an angle. I'm making my final preparations now b/c I have to guess which side of the tree he is going to pass me on. I make my best guess, turning slowly and raising my shotgun. I can see him clearly now at 20 yards and I see a solid, wide but somewhat uneven 7 pointer staring around in that way that you know means he doesn't see you. I'm gonna let him pass b/c I wound up killing a buck like this in bow season and I don't need another 2cd rate rack or the meat and the hassle that goes w/ it. But here's what happens instead; He's almost under me now, I've lowered my gun & I'm easing back on the safety but some threads from these damm rag mittens have gotten snagged in the back side of the button as I was pushing it in. In close qtrs I always push the safety on an 870 from one side while cushioning the button from the other side. At any rate I'm trying to get the rag threads out and the safety back on when KABOOM the gun goes off. Stunned is not the word to use to describe what I experienced at that moment. I looked down at the gun & see 2 things 1. the finger flap of the mitten had gotten inside the trigger guard and 2. the slug has against all odds gone right down along and thru the outer edge of the bucks ribs producing a shower of hair. Needless to say he was prompt in getting the F- out of there. I on the other hand felt like I should check my drawers and sit down BUT now I've got a badly wounded but seriously pissed buck bolting away. I whisked my hand out of the mitten leaving it stuck in the safety, jacked my other slug in and got on the fleeing deer. Thanks to shooting enough trap,skeet & birds I was able to pile him up @ 37 yds when I got a clear shot. Jeez, so much for a mellow afternoon! P.S. Next day I threw the mittens in the dumpster and dropped the 870 off at Mayhood's for a check up w/ the gun smith just in case but in the end it's always the 'nut' behind the stock that's the real problem!

As I've said b4; when you have lots of does, lots of feed (active ag land), and lots of cover, bucks 2.5 and better can seem almost invisible but they are usually there in higher numbers than most folks think. I bow hunted by myself on 7 afternoons (2 till dark) saw 2 bucks >6 pts & killed 1.Saw 4 bucks from spike-6 pts. Saw 14 does in the same period & killed only 1 (getting soft in my old age) Ive hunted fire arms season 7 afternoons so far & seen 1 buck >6 pts & had to kill him due to extenuating circumstances (see my post 'another deer story'). During gun season I've also seen 3 bucks from spike-6pts. Seen 6 does & killed 3. Most years I start to see more 1.5 yr old bucks than does towards the end of firearms season b/c the does start to group and the groups are led by hunter educated mature does who do not expose their charges to the masses. I'm no expert on deer herd/buck management but under our conditions I would say that hunters should be aiming to kill 2 or 3 doe for every buck but I'm quite sure this is a long way from what's going on. What we have instead in probably .5 does killed /buck and probably 75% of the bucks are 1.5.