chowder

You're family has been strong through all this. I'm sure it's been a test of everybody's spirit and it's great to hear that you're dad is coming along. Keep the faith bud! -Andy P.S. I saw a buck just like you're archery buck, only he had his rack busted up the opposite way. If I had any buck tags left I'd a taken him and boiled him down so you would have a matched pair!

Hey Vic, have a great day!

Blue water, there is a couple ways to rig "cheaters" (a 2cd bait off one rigger rod). In the first and simplest method you let out your main rigger presentation, be it spoon or flasher, and before you crank down the slack in the line you clip a 4' stretch of mono or fc onto the main line w/ a snap swivel or snap, on the other end of the stretch is a snap swivel w/ a spoon clipped to it. You toss the spoon in and crank the rigger rod tight. This is called a "free slider". The other way you can do it is to use a Roemer release which enables you to "fix" the cheater spoon at a specific depth. Both techniques have their place. Either way you have two different presentations at different depths w/ one rod.

Nick, does that line work on the female educational associates?

You betcha, I use this basic rub a lot of ways by varying different ingredients (especially the cayenne). I will try to find time to post the whole, butterflied haunch recipe and "Mr Brown", an outstanding pork shoulder number! Hey Greg, I think the smoker that Jim is talking about would sure get you in the game & the price sounds right! Incidentally if you have a couple 2-3# venison roasts- they are a great thing to get started with. I like to tie them up w/ butcher string after I get them loaded w/ rub (net bags work good too), this keeps things together & helps prevent the complete falling apartness before you want to experience it.

I have a Depth Raider, and have the older Fish Hawk 640. I understand the new X4 is an improvement (it better be, I dont like the 640 readout at all!) The Depth Raider is easy to use and w/ few simple precautions is an economical and accurate tool. Don't retrieve (or run for extended periods) the coated cable riggers pivoted out at an angle from the boat. If you do you will get abrasion on the cable as it rubs the pulley at an angle. This might be worse on Cannons than on some riggers w/ more of a swiveling pulley. Keep a roll of electric tape around to touch up problems as the cable gets older (can save the day).

Here's a couple things you can do; 1. Put foil in the water bowl 2. Put foil around the controls & on the bottom (excluding the area of your chips box/burner). My net eating cats pull away any foil on the outside so this doesn't work as well for me Since my smoker is propane fired I feel pretty comfortable just dousing the outside w/ warm soapy water, giving it a brushing and rinsing it off (when I remember to do it ). I keep mine in the garage b/c wind will really raise the devil w/ temps. If it's real cold I kind of box it in w/ some fireboard & foil backed insulation. A real good intro to fish smoking is Scott & Tiffany Haugen's "Smoking Salmon & Steelhead, and anything written by Bill Jamison will steer you the right way on traditional BBQ dishes.

Stan, I'm ready.My boat or yours? -Andy

I took the State land Buck w/ a 50 cal Traditions muzzle loader w/ open sights. My doe management tool is a Winchester 70 XTR in 7mm mag w/ a factory bedded barrel & Leupold scope. I bought this gun used from a local fellow who was very short on cash when I was less so.I've gotten comfortable w/ it to 300 yds though I don't think I've shot a buck w/ it in over 3 years. Like I said above, the only time I can be 100% sure on passing buttons is during bow season, or if I'm in a stand(w/ a downward view) at close range. I'm trying to manage does on over 700 acres so I make some mistakes from time to time but it's better than letting these does get any further out of control.I really only have afternoons available to hunt (2:30-5) so I take quite a few early w/ the bow- it's getting tougher at this point in the season for sure b/c there is a lot of pressure around (but not many deer killed )

Picture showing overall condition + one of the lower neck from the back.

Greg, I have been using a Cabelas propane smoker for over 7 years, before that I had a charcoal smoker. I like the propane smoker much better, far easier to use and regulate. Mine is stainless, which I think is a good idea too, since you will get a lot of funky stuff all over it, if you do much "mopping' while smoking. I know very little about the electric smokers- do they enable you to use a water bath? If not I would encourage you to consider a gas type, though they are probably more expensive. Speaking of smokers I better post my whole, butterflied, smoked venison haunch recipe!

Thanks for sharing what must have been a really great hunt! Congrats to the young man and the buck master too! -Andy

Checks in the mail, but I got a question on Ray's rug. Is it Ray's bare rug or a bear rug?

A truly outstanding buck, congrats! Just curious how you know it's the same deer?

Went out w/ a couple guys w/ empty freezers yesterday. I put a bunch of does in front of them @ 40 yds. 2 shots . zero deer. We try another piece and before we can start we got 5 does at about 270 yds, I look at the guys and they gesture to me "yea get us one!". I hold 4" high on the biggest doe, touch it off- done! High 5s all around! Get over there and it's a large fat button buck Must have been a group of skippys, boy do I feel like an ass...

At some point in the distant past I hunted one of the farms we rent for growing crops on with a guy who had some kind of QDM qualifications. The farm we hunted was roughly 200 acres w/ 55 acres in woods, the balance was productive hay land and he figured 5 to 6 does should be taken off that per year.

Probably too late to start in on this but I hope people haven't left taking a doe till the end of the deal once again! Good article in this months "Deer & Deer Hunting"on Doe management. Remember if you hunt in a farm land MU, where the taking of does is encouraged you will greatly improve the growth rate of all deer(bucks included) because the carrying capacity of the unit is limited by the winter browse. It's not considered "macho" by many but most experts argue that archers should take the first yearling doe that presents itself b/c this has the greatest impact on the total breeding capacity of a doe group for years to come + w/ a bow you are much more likely to be able leave a button buck alone. Now that the deer herd is pressured it's much more difficult to take a doe. Up untill just this week around here the 2 1/2 yr old bucks were considerably easier to kill than the 2 1/2 yr old does. Now that the rut is over(in my high elevation part of 7M) and even most of the yearlings bred, movement will decrease and the presence of even a single doe is much less likely to lead to a buck sighting and you should take that doe if you have not all ready. I have taken solitary does many times w/ both bow and firearm and then taken a good buck shortly after, and the other way around as well. After the shot don't expose yourself- sit tight, it's amazing what can happen next! Taking a doe does not deter a determined buck, especially in archery season. At least twice I've arrowed bucks sniffing a doe that I killed moments before! If you are a truly experienced hunter- leave the young bucks alone and kill a doe, after all it's "hunting season" not "any buck season". My comments are directed at those hunting farmland MUs w/ high probablities for DMPs.

I'll just add that using Mag size dipsies, set on 1.5 help, minimize tangles w/ the copper down the chute and off inlines b/c the Mags dive steep and stay closer to the boat out of the way of the copper which does not dive steeply. Although most people (myself included) seem to start out experimenting w/ copper down the chute, it actually causes a lot less problems out to the side off planer boards.

I've targeted lakers at 200+ w/ fairly poor results so far. Although I mark good numbers of fish down there, especially post spawn and coming out of winter they do not seem to be actively feeding.

My understanding of the original Southern Tier "black powder" season was that you were not supposed to use a scope on these guns during the special late season. Is this correct or did I mix stuff up in my head w/ the passage of time? For many years I hunted w/ a scoped CVA magbolt inline muzzle loader during the regular season (our MU was shotgun at the time) and then used my Lyman percussion during the late muzzle loader season. It doesn't really make much difference to me but I'm curious what the actual regs are? Thanks!

I'm loving this thread! Let's keep it going. It's gonna be a long winter! Speaking of which has anybody heard anything more about a S. Tier Oct 1st opener for 2010? -Andy

Didn't mean to get your dander up there walleye! I got the distinct impression that you had not done much rifle hunting. Quite frankly most of the guys I see shoot 4 or 5 times at the range before "opening day" look like they have been doing the same thing for 35 years, so forgive me for my erroneous assumptions.

I gotta go w/ Bottom Feeder, I love the Lyman. On the other hand there are some practical reasons to start out w/ an inline, especially if you are getting into this on your own. A reasonably priced inline gun to consider would be a CVA Optima. I got my 14 year old son one and using 100 grains of Triple 7 w/ the 245 grain aero tip he's grouping real well @ 50-75 w/ open sights.

Hank, come on back down and set up a little temporary shop in my machine shed for the winter time. We'll keep you busy tinkering & deer hunting!

Be realistic about how much long range predator/deer hunting you are going to do. Consistently being able to make 100+ yd shots comes w/ range time not an expensive rifle. A rifle like a Remington 700 or Winchester 70 (my favorite) with a high quality 4x 12x scope will group till hell wont have it @ 200 in any of the three calibers you mention-if you are willing to put in some serious range time. If I had a nickel for every guy I've seen shoot his overpriced rifle a few times at the 50 yd target and a couple times at the 100 yd target, all using a rest, and then not be able to understand why he missed a deer at 180 yds (pace it off sometime, it doesn't seem that far through a scope) I could buy you a nice setup. At the risk of sounding like a s-head I would encourage you to consider getting an economically priced 270 like a Savage/Stevens bolt action with a decent 3x 9x scope ($150 range) and then put the rest of your hard earned $ into several boxes of reasonably priced 130 grain bullets and spend some some range time before and during the season. I think the 270 is the best choice for a couple reasons; 1. it's popular, making the ammo and the rifle relatively cheap.2. it's got a practical advantage over the 243 in terms of # force in the 100-200 yd range especially if you stick w/ 130 grain, which I would strongly encourage b/c you don't want unexpanded exits on thin skinned animals. I have shot a number of coyotes and countless deer w/ a setup like the one I am describing. In the hands of a shooter capable of consistently making 100 yd free hand shots (no small feat) this kind of setup will rival any other under most hunting conditions. If you become seriously interested in predator hunting you will probably want a 222(my favorite) or 223 at some point, you don't need the # force for these little guy's but after you've called in a few you often need to be able to step out into the 200yd+ range and the 222 and 223 have very flat trajectories.These setups get very expensive fast b/c you will spend more on optics than you do for the gun. Good Luck & happy shopping! (sorry about the typos-think I got the worst of em fixed!)