FLX. Thanks for the info. We have been using like .022 guage copper line for years. No backing and no leader. Just copper. I have always wondered if that was such a good set up. What guage copper do you use? Leader size? We do not use level wind reels. Just open 49L's. that you have to level with your thumb when you are reeling up. We have donated a lot of copper to the bottom. It's just a family thiong we have always done since I was a little kid. Probably not the best way to skin a cat. You have probably snagged a couple of my lines if you fish the east side by the camp. Usually after the fish get out to 70 feet we give up in the middle of the summer. We have never been able to get to the bottom with the reels we have. Probably becuase we have not used any backing. That might help. Our frineds on Senenca Lake have used big pearl flatfish with copper and that seems to work. Personally I have not had much luck withn Suttons. The Pfluegers are heavier and seem to catch more fish. We're probably living in the stone age - any advice would help.