dreamsteelie

Here is the list of pros and amatuers that signed the no communication form, the same form will be available for the Orleans County Pro/Am at Oak Orchard next week. Hope we see increased participation every tourney. Pros Maverick High Voltage At Last Billy V Violent Release Rebel Charters Thrillseeker Vision Quest Top Gun Yankee Troller Lone Wolf Get It Wet Tall Tails Hammerhead Landing Zone Free Spirit Meatheads Hideout Dandy Eyes Time Flys Desitiny Hot Pursuit White Mule Balls Deep Cold Steel Amatuers Fish Nutz Thristy Whale Gill-T-Hooker Satisfaction Spoonfed/NK Lucky Enuff Hannah Christine Cold Water Affair Salmon Obsession Rock N Reel A1 Bait 5 More Minutes Hammer Time Subject to Change Underdog Rigger Tony Thank you gentlemen for your participation and taking the steps back to the way it used to be Capt. Pete [ Post made via Mobile Device ] [ Post made via Mobile Device ]

The rules and agreement will be at the pro-am captains meeting. Some will be circulated at weeks end for review and signature. The agreement and rules have been reviewed by the Pro-Am committee and accepted. Please keep in mind that altho they are OK with what was written and what we are attempting to do, they still will remain on the sidelines in terms of enforcement etc... Also, please know this was not done behind their backs or without some input. The idea was started some time ago but "we" never ran with the ball. It was just time to accept the idea offered and get it done! It is not mandatory but it seems to be what the majority have asked for so we have a means to accomplish this now. If 90% agree and sign on, we are 90% better off and there will be 90% less tournament teams for the 10% to chat with during the event. There may be a lot of Questions and most if not all have been addressed in this form and additional Q. can be answered at the conclusion of the Captains Meeting. For those who have been desiring this, your time is now. Captain Pete Vision Quest

Icefrog, This was not to purposely exclude the AMs at all. I just never thought about including the Ams because I am focused on our division and I have not had any conversations with AM teams that showed an interest (til recently). FYI: this form will be able to be signed by both divisions. The rules apply to both. However, there will need to be a AM rules committee to oversee it and deal with any "claims". I see Rod and Jeff want that ball so it's theirs. Vince has obtained a committtee for the Pro's. It may not be for everyone but there are a ton of reasons to support it. Hope this response helps. Captain Pete Vision Quest

Rod, I have not seen much on this subject from the Am division and did not even think that was a possibility. My bad. V-man and I will be finalizing something early this week. Non to complicated but a C.Y.A. agreement. Its not as simple as iy you communicate, you get DQ'd. The Pro-AM Committee and Counties will not enforce it and want to stay out of it. So.... Its more of peer group thing. we will be covering the bases tho. If you and a couple others are willing to form the AM No Communication Committee, then have at it. The document will cover both divisions. If there are Ams that don't want it, it may cause a monkey wrench or maybe not? I am willing to sign and abide by it even if every Pro does not. My choice. Keep ya posted. Captain Pete Vision Quest

As a follow up to the now ugly thread about comm. This is it: The tournament commitees will not agree to close comm. for there reasons. They have their reasons and rights to do this. Right now, we have to play by their rules or don't play at all. I will take Bob's and Paul's offer to formulate a closed comm. agreement for the Niagara Event and see how it is received. I have had passionate discussions with Vince and we agreed to put something together for the event and ask for the tournament committee's acceptance as well as all Tam Captain's participation. I have yet to find a cptain that favors open comm., so I will assume, most if not all will be Ok with a closed comm. proposal amongst the players. In a nutshell, it will be for the team captain to accept and take responsibility for keping all communication closed from start to end. Observers to maintain control of all comm. devices and to watchdog suspiscious activity. There may also be an award offered to anyone that can prove that comm. took place during tournament hours. (Even tho the pro-am committee will not be able to enforce or be involved) With that said, we know it may occur despite agreements and efforts but that captain is risking his and his teams reputation if he does it. That reputation (if caught) will follow him/them around and it will be up to ourselves to make sure that "they" and all future cheaters get the message from us, their peers. Ultimately, if it is accepted, we will be much further than we are now and it will prove to the pro-am commitees that this is really desired by us. Based on what I have been told and by what Paul has written, the opportunity is ours right now and the door is half open. IF WE SO CHOOSE.... So, Vince and I will go to work to put something together for the Niagara County Event. I hope the participating pro team captains can agree and spread the word about this possible change amongst ourselves. Just to clarify, this is not a proposed rule change by the counties or commitees, this would be an agreement between ourselves and unrelated to the event rules. Captain Pete Vision Quest

Great thread guys and well put. As I have stated in the past and to the powers to be... No communication is the purest form of a win or of doing well. No strings attached, no savior calls, no spolier boats interfering, no friend betrayals, no scoreboard updates all morning, and no games. This is the way it should be! The last several years, we have watched and saw the results of open comm. Unfortunately, we have been bumped down by other teams due to last minute spoiler calls. My observers have documented as many as 75 calls/texts from some of the players which have all led to their success. My observers witnessed teams calling non-tourney teams that were already fishing as they entered the Lake. These teams would call several charters already set up looking for one on a "bite" then motoring to them. This is NOT how it should be. We travel to fish these events and have a day or two at best to figure it out. A great disadvantage vs. locals. This local advantage is extended further when they can make 20 calls to different boats and get the best spots and info. This set up does not favor traveling teams at all. We have opted out of the East ends primarily due to open comm. Its hard enough to figure the fish and water in a short period of time but to then compete against an OPEN NETWORK which involve some of he best guys in each port is getting old. We love closed comm. and usually do better in that environment. We are fishing the west end because the boat will be there anyway and we love to tournament fish. But may stick to closed comm. events in the future, its money better spent as they say. Maybe the powers to be will listen to their customers in the future? Time will tell but Kevin and Yvan will "get our business" and the thousands of dollars we dump into the tourney fees, fuel, calcuttas etc. on an annual basis with the closed comm. rule. Captain Pete Vision Quest [ Post made via Mobile Device ]

Not sure where NY proposal lies BUT PA did approve our 3 rod proposal during their April session. Should go into effect in 2012. Maybe this info. will be useful to NY legislators to put a little pressure on them??? Now PA, and MI have it. Capt. Pete

NICE Well Said V.P. Vinnie Cheers Tom, Green Tea Buddy, only Green Tea Capt HR VQ

Hmmm, points well taken gents.. However, if you think it thru.. Since were ONLY talking a whopping 5 fish in KOTL events and 6 in WHI, any contender "should" get their fish in every event. Right? if not, they should not necessarily be a contender. Altho Niagara would be the exception with a 12 fish max. So, why not reward the guy who brought a BIG 5 one day in, yes a HERO box that really seperated him from the other 5 fish boxes BUT in the other events he was beat out by ounces since with 5 fish ONLY we often are talking a couple punds or ounces, Right? BUT those "couple" ounces dropped him a place or three thus costing them precious "placement" points. So, then the guy who hits "the HOME RUN, AKA Hero Box may win that event but does not get much past that for it... Hard to explain with a $%#@ keyboard (wwish you guys were doing they typing ). Mr. Paul... AKA FREE SPIRIT, This is NOT comparable to a 12 or 14 fish deal like past pro-ams where East vs. West made a HUGE difference, again, WERE talking 5 fish, 6 in WHI and 12 in Niagara.... NOT an apples to apples comparison really... With 5 or 6 fish events, mere ounces can set one apart... SO,why not let the guy with the most fish win it all? which would probably mean the Niagara Pro-Am could decide it all... Like the sign says on the boat, "The one with the most fish wins" FYI, I believe the 2010 KOTL was cumulative points and most of the guys "IN THIS EVENT" agreed and liked it. Why would it "eliminate" ams? Maybe it would "motivate" some to move up?? Thats the "positive" way to look at it (maybe). If your an AM, and some self confidence, skill and consider yourself a good fishermen, then why not be in the pro division already and fish against pro's?? (my thoughts) This thread was about giving input and NOT shooting ones' input down Like boats, we all have one and like different types for certain reasons... I like mine, you like yours but I don't tell you why you should like mine and yours is wrong? I guess that means Tom's not gonna sponsor us now The current pro-am scoring Challenge Cup system is complicated and we can't even figure it out without scores in front of us and a calculator and you even agreed, so why go right back to it with this one? Paul, the man asked for opinions/ideas and that's what I gave... Capt. H.R. AKA VQ

I like it simple and tally up scores from all three even tho it may not justly reward consistency but does allow a HOME RUN event to help. Team VQ qould be in and I am sure Happy Tom Allen would sponsor us As long as we swore not to use any DW flies ... Can call it Big Boys West Series, West End Challenge, Tri-Port Challenge West, West end Can-Am Cup, West End Can-Am Challenge. or maybe: Vince vs. the rest Captain Pete Vision Quest http://www.dreamsteelie.com

Kev, It would be great to see a final roster posted shortly after the deadline. The event has a lot of people 'JACKED' !! Glad to see all the participation from the event organizers, sponsors and "players". Woo Wee, it's gonna be some weekend in Wilson, NY.. Captain Pete

Todd, you are correct and I did not expand on my question when written. I am actually looking for the final roster for WHI. Which in essence will consist of the guys entered or "eventually" enter the KOTL. Doubtful anyone would enter KOTL without the required WHI. The deadline for KOTL in essence, is April 1st (deadline for WHI) and the day of the Captains meeting for BJ Spring event. When guys can enter the overall (as log as in the WHI by 4/1/11)..... That's my understanding when discussing with Yvan and having V-Man clarify. No one outside of WHI will be entering KOTL (assume not). Thats where I was headed with the Q. for Kevin. Todd, u fishing our Spring Trout Challenge April 17th? Pete

Hi Kevin, Can you post the final roster for the KOTL on April 2nd ? Would like to see who made the deadline? Yvan said (3) more made entered as of today 3.29.11. I assume you will know final since all must go thru you to enter and assume no one would enter the KOTL without your event due to the MUST enter requirement? Thanks in advance, Pete

Anyone doubt if Tom Allen's excited over this event "Thanks Kevin for putting together an awesome event! Finally an event that will test your angling skills and not your "texting" prowess. Once these events became open comm I felt I had no way of truely knowing who I was fishing against. These guys are tough enough to compete agianst alone and even tougher when you give them a unlimited source of information from a network of other fisherman. The pro am shifted away from testing my skills as an angler to rewarding my skills as a "network builder". Looking foward to once again fishing against the very best the lake has to offer on a even playing field! Let the game begin!!!" Well put Primetime Pete. Altho I don't go back nearly as far back as you on Lake O. (thus the deletion of the copied post), I feel the exact same way regarding the comm. networking etc.. It's tough enough to roll in to dodge after leaving Lake Erie, practice fish a day or two, sift thru the B.S., find a program that works and then go head to head with some of the best of the best (you included). Combine that with major networking and open comm., one finds himself at a major disadvantage if "not connected" as well... Its tough enough to beat the fish in their element let alone 15 to 30 boats connected via the CELL PHONE... I often said, the purest and most rewarding "W" is one that the captain and team did themselves without outside influence. We are really looking forward to the one day "show down" and format that the WHI has put together. See you in May. Vision Quest

The Great Lakes Tackle Shop.com: would like to thank the LOTSA volunteers who helped get us unloaded and loaded at the event and for hosting a professional event. The help was great, people first class and it was great to see everyone. We also were spell bound by the new 70's colors A-TOM-MIK Spin Doctors. They should be a big hit this season. Tom Allen did a great job coming out with those color combo's and Dreamweaver did a nice job with the finished product. Good luck in the coming 2011 fishing season.. From The Great Lakes Tackle Team http://www.greatlakestackleshop.com

Kevin, Great to see all the positive feed back and constant updates... Don't forget to hold me a spot for the 36 for the month of May. keep me away from Cold Steel tho---Their a bad influence. VQ

Last year was a good show for us at this event and thanks to all who stopped by or have ordered on line from us. This year, we will be accepting orders prior to the event and they will be delivered to the show for pick up and freight savings. Orders must be received 3 days prior to the show but longer lead time will guarantee we have the product by then. There is a printable form located on the home page of our website. www.greatlakestackleshop.com We have also asked Dreamweaver Lures to buy a table at this years show so they can hear feedback from you. GLT continues to support the Lake Ontario fishery, LOTSA and tourney events. Coming in 2011: Look for a "tournament observer" based website in the future, where folks wanting to be assigned as observers can sign up. Thanks and see you at the LOTSA show.

To add to Tom's post about Salmon Bound... "And their eating white back DW Super Slim Frogs on a bright suny day..." Captain Pete

LOL Vince.... Good reply. Me help you in a tourney- (we might make sure you don't see a net get wet or fight a fish with a rod in the water as you troll by) LOL I see Tom's trying to get you amped up early for the upcoming 2011 tourney season and you failed to take the bait. Nice.... Be sure to know that you are always on the radar screen tho and it's great to compete against you in each and every event. Team VQ will be in for the Wilson Event and we are excited about the format (no comm.). Winter Well V-Man Captain Pete

Tom: Here's a brief recap.... Thursday: Same crew with high expectations. Ended up going 13 for 22. Several would rip the divers for a while and let loose... Even dropped two hooked rigger fish. Took 2 Sharks at 29.5# and 30# mark again and several mid twenty Sharks. Again DW Spin Doctors, DW Paddles and A-TOM-MIK flies did all of the damage except (1) new DW Captains Choice plug fish. Fish were mostly suspended from 50-65 foot down because the ice water was high. Divers on #3 back 175 was "magic". Unable to take quality kill shot picture as guys were not able to hold fish racks even with Ray helping. Had 25# avg. with the 10 big fish and the other 3 averaged about 10#. Great day on Lake O. Big Fish Friday (Game Day): Mike (Hinks) and Tom Allen (A-TOM-MIK) joined Ray and I Friday. Ran west again and set up about 1.3 miles from the River. Went 1 for 3 on the set up....... Once we had all lines back in (7) of them, then it HAPPENED First the diver, then rigger, then diver, then rigger, then copper, then diver, then rigger.. HOLY CRAP It was only seconds after we reloaded and we all were fighting Sharks(4) and had (3) rods with line being stripped in the rod holders.... a legitimate and first ever=7 BANGER...... Never seen that one before ! We systematically landed all (7) fish. No tangles and break-offs (Thanks GAMMA). Wow, one cooler full and its early... We had no rods in the water so we racked and ran back to the starting point and reset... What a start. It gets better-kind of... Fishing slowed down to a normal pace and we got our bites with subtle changes. At one point, our bite quit and we watched some other boats plow a few fish. hmmmmm. Something changed. Our cold water moved up in the water column and we determined they moved as well and maybe turned off our AM offerings. We made a dramatic color change and raised the program a little. Bingo- We knew we needed a big guy for Dreamweaver Big Fish Friday and felt the 29.8 pounder in the box would not win it..... The storm front was fast approaching and we received a warning from Capt. Paul that she was coming. We were getting close to quitting and we hit a double and landed both fish just as 40 knot winds hit us. Boys-rack em! With Tom, Mike and Ray unhooking fish and bringing in lines, we were left with two rods fishing and me driving straight into a 40 knot wind... Then the inside wire set at 115' on 1.5# fires and starts screaming..... Tom Yells, Oh &%$# not another one.... Captain Mike with cat like quickness pulls the rod out and its screaming to Olcott.. I yell, "fight it like it's "the FISH" we want" Ya never know, we need a big guy. Tom yells, "THE &%$# with that one let's get out of here"... All the lines and weights get pulled in and Mike's fish is close. I see it and it's a big one. Tom says, NA, its just another small one (25#er' he states). (Tom wants to leave reallly bad at this point) Ray is on the net and says, Its'a Biggy, nets it and hoisted it aboard amongst waves, white water and a mess on the deck. Wow, I say, that's the one we need. We proceed to pull the fish out of the spare cooler from the swim platform so they are not lost on the suck ride home and now we have rods, a net and a bunch of salmon laying all over the deck as we take the "white knuckle ride" back home with zero visibility, torrential rain and 5-7 foot waves with white caps as long as the Queen Mary..... End up 22 for 35 or 36 on Friday. What a great day. Estimated 5 big fish at 142 to 144 pounds... What an ending.... At the DW Big Fish weigh in there were not a lot of guys weighing in... However, Capt. Lake O. (Paul weighs in one just over 33# and were like wow, thats a good one and knew it was gonna be close). We weigh ours and just nudge him out... However, the last box to weigh gets us by a few ounces. (Nice work Eddie) Again, A-TOM-MIK Flies teamed with DW Spin Doctors and DW Paddles did the damage (all the damage). Team VQ finished 2nd overall in the King of The Lake race against 18 other teams. We also took two second placements and a third place in the Dreamweaver Big Fish awards out of the 5 events overall with a 34#, 33# and 29#. It was a pretty good year and a year where a few more landed bites would have took us to first.. But we did not get all the ones we needed and that's fishing! "Congrats Team Two Fish" I had the pleasure of fishing with some really good guys in all of the events who were dedicated and really into it. Thanks to all you guys (Mike-Tom-Ray-Shawn-Mark-Kevin) for a good solid memorable year. I am already looking forward to 2011. Also, a big thanks to Dreamweaver and A-TOM-MIK for supplying us with whatever we needed to compete including some awesome shirts and hats . Captain Pete Vision Quest « Last Edit: Today at 06:54:47 PM by visionquest »

Hi Paul: I just read David's response. Thank you for sharing. Item no. 1. I understand the reasoning-However, that decision to change the rules should have been sent out much earlier, explained to all and perhaps massaged to allow it to a "certain" extent. It went from all to nothing in a hurry and I don't agree with how it happened but understand the reasoning. Item no. 2. Is weak at best. Give the team a number to hold up like the Scotty's and there will be NO confusion at the pier heads. Item no. 3. Is weak again. We know all these teams DO NOT work together and we all KNOW MANY do anyway. Are people really going to think that that all these teams are going to help each other out. LOL Currently, most teams are mad at each other or mistrust one another and all have turned like the That just leads us to the old argument of no comm. and why it should be put back into the rules. No comm. would in fact attract more teams and take the large advantage away of local teams. We have faced this disadvantage from day one coming from Erie. So, if item no, 3 was truly a concern, let's go NO COMM Baby !!! I understand the number one reason but the other two are stretching it. To conclude: I really like the events, and appreciate the efforts of everyone involved. Kudos to Dave, Bob, Billy, you and all of the committee members. The folks involved have the right to do what they want, how they want and what is in the best interest of the big picture. That's business as they say... However, I just don't happen to agree this time and would like to voice my opinions this one last time. Captain Pete Vision Quest

Greetings: I usually lay low on this forum and just look for info. and try to get a few laughs(LOL).. I am copy/pasting a response I sent to Tom yesterday.... Some of you may agree or not agree. Ultimately, when we reach into our pockets and shell out hard earned coin to support an event, we want to support an event that listens and supports us in return. For those who do not agree with pulling sponsorships, please understand that the "beef" should be with someone besides us. I, personally am not mad at anyone and will continue to fish the events because I love them But from a business perspective and a sponsors perspective, I cannot support an event that has rules or does things that I do not agree with. However...... Hi Tom, This is disappointing news to hear but I understand where and how you feel. I don't blame you for pulling out. I do not "fully" understand why team names cannot have a sponsor's name attached. I understand it may be easier for the pro-am committees but who should determine "what" a team name should be or should not be (with exception of a profane or racy name). I guess Dave Sullivan would not be allowed to enter as TEAM BIG JON then? Because that's not his boat name? How will that newly instituted last minute policy favor or attract potential future sponsors??? Furthermore, the committee should have given notice a while ago, not within 2 weeks of the first Pro-AM. I know if I was sponsoring a tournament team, I would certainly want my name attached to the scoreboard and score sheets. It has been this way for years and now it has been changed with little or no notice??? I have been a "cash" sponsor for the last several years and in 2009, even kicked in $500 in gift certificates over and above from my on-line tackle store. I am also bailing as a 2010 sponsor. I put a lot of time effort and money in to the events just from a competitors standpoint but will not extend that beyond my entry fees. I will still participate as a competitor but not as a sponsor. I am with you on this one. Pete Alex Vision Quest Great Lakes Tackle Shop.com

Rich and Craig: Thanks for the honest report... Fishing is very inconsistent at times but one thing I really like about you guys and is "consistent" is the FACT that you guys pull no punches on your reports. Even when it's tough=no B.S. from you ! Kudos brothers ! Capt. Pete Vision Quest

Vision Quest put one on the board (12th place). Friday May 7th, we were in fish cleaning mode in back of the boat with just a 6 rod spread out. Bite had died after NE wind and cold temp. kicked in. Wanted to end the day with "just one more". We were just about to start clearing when.... Dropped rigger deep for the final slide home and it fired. Jim Kocsis, reeled and was into a good one. It sounded deep like a big SHARK will do sometimes. During the battle, I cleared the other 5 rods, Tom kept dicing the fish and Jim was TIED into a good one. Angler and fish at stalemate as we bumbed the boat in-out of gear. Eventually Tom slid the net over it and "thumped" it on the deck. Good One he says !! Spin Doctor and A-TOM-MIK Fly (again) Awesome combination ! Capt. Pete

Shade, Hope all is well. Heard you bought a new boat? The custom spoons are not seperated currently. (gonna make u look) In the spoon selections, there are a variety of "non standard" colors that many or most of the dealers do not have. The orange backs have Fluorescent Orange and are very good steelhead baits ! Examples: SS gold back 42nd spoons. SS NBK/orange backs SSLime Ice/orange backs SS VQ alewife/Orange back SS yellow Gobie /silver back Magnum and SS Dirty White Boys with silver backs. (stock DW blades have white backs) These are some examples. Hope to have them categorized on the 'custom' area soon to make it easier. Pete