Sk8man

I know we are all like race horses waiting to get out of the gate but it is going to take some extended cold without the ups and downs in temp and low to no wind for a bit to give us safe ice.

I think Gator has a good perspective on the situation. Part of the problem here may actually have nothing to do with the "supportive" factors mentioned. The underlying issue may have more to do with the way our brains are structured to deal with incoming information. Sound strange? Not really....this overall situation is highly complex and is from all appearances an interaction between human actions, vested interests, and Mother Nature. In our minds (as we have done for millennia) we interpret incoming information in terms of cause and effect meaning that one action or lack thereof causes or directly leads to or influences some reaction. Sometimes things don't fit this model of thinking and events may happen coincidentally or they may be independent actions or events that we try to make sense of by lumping or combining them together, when in fact they are separate or discrete events; or one event may have the "appearance" of affecting or "causing" something to happen. This situation being discussed seems to be one of those "quagmires". People all over the world have settled at the edge of various bodies of water despite the logical probabilities regarding potential adverse effects coming from such positioning (flooding, hurricane activity, tsunamis, etc.) which repeat themselves over the course of time. We still continue to believe that we as humans have some high degree of control over Mother Nature - when time and time again we are presented with contrary natural events and disasters. Human action, interaction or inaction during critical periods may make the situation worse or mitigate damage and we need to try to deal with what Mother Nature hands out but we may not have all or even enough cards available to play in the situation. When something disasterous happens we naturally try to understand the origin of the "causation" and ascribe "blame" to the most prominent or easily identifiable action, event, object, or person when in reality we may be dealing with complex, multi-dimensional factors some of which may be happening at the same time, preceding, or following an event, and this whole issue seems to smack of this scenario. Trying to ascribe "blame" or a single cause or even a solution to it may be "pissing in the wind". Sorry....got tired of thinking this to myself and felt compelled to let it out (and maybe I shouldn't have had the second coffee)

I know Iceland has a population of them as does Norway but if memory serves me correctly there are three main populations: North America, Europe and Russia. I think most of the Atlantic Ocean fish frequent Greenland to winter over as it is the main feeding ground before they return to their native streams to spawn. The North American population is in southern Canada and the Gulf of Maine.

They aren't even doing well in the Atlantic Ocean here in the US. They are currently a protected species in the marine environment and I believe I read somewhere that the only real viable "native" populations run up three rivers in Maine. The commercial "farm" raisers have a reputation for spreading all sorts of diseases among them as well as other salmon using the waters where they are located. I'm not sure about the genetic origin of the NYS stocked strain.

One of the things that has been in the back of my mind for awhile regarding the stocking issues is dietary diversity of the various trout and salmon species and considerations relating to it. The trout and salmon species vary radically in their dietary habits and preferences and despite the current focus on alewives; each species offers a different level of "threat" to the alewife base with associated differences in time frames i.e immediacy. For example, the Pacific salmon being the roaming and free-ranging non-bottom-feeders they are (genetically) feed nearly entirely on saltwater derivative baitfish such as the alewife. Previously (when they were available) Atlantics fed on the rainbow smelt (which is related to Capelin a close relative in the smelt family which serves a primary source of food for the ocean goer Atlantics. In fresh water It takes an Atlantic about two to three years (smolts) before their organs are developed enough to ingest baitfish. Until then they feed on insects and small invertebrates, plankton, and crustaceans found in streams and nearshore areas as well as insect hatches of caddisflies, mayflies blackflies and that sort of thing. Atlantics exhibit pronounced diet diversity throughout their lives (4-7 yrs usually) and may be a reason why they are out deep with the steelies in the summer when all the insects are available out there. The Pacific salmon are faster growing with shorter life spans but during most of their life they feed pretty much exclusively on alewives in Lake Ontario. Point is that Atlantics don't have much immediate impact on the alewife baitfish base for 3 or 4 years. They are also thought to be quite vulnerable to stress or injury when caught and released and are known to be very susceptible to many viruses, bacteria, and fungus so it isn't surprising that they don't seem to fare very well in the current lake environment. I guess I should also state that the Kings are my ultimate favorite Lake O fish and it is rather discouraging to think that being as vulnerable as they are because of their dietary focus they could be particularly affected by a decimated alewife population if that is or becomes fact.

Might want to stretch that wish to 3 inches for safety sake

Stepping back a bit from this thread I have to admit this is the closest thing I have seen on here in the way of a truly intellectually based argument with supportive data for each side of it. Too bad our elected officials, the IJC and other decision makers haven't done their "homework" to this extent regardless of the "correct" interpretation

Nicely stated MIke

OMG I'm still laughing at that one. Good one Bill

x3 on the Victorinox

For folks unfamiliar with it this may answer some questions: http://coosacomposites.com/technical-data/faqs

That looks like a pic to be framed Bill beautiful fish and pic

You're "hardcore" John. Good going.....getting me psyched up for ice fishing

I've been following this thread right along and having fished both streams and lakes all my life including Lake O and feel that there is a whole lot of room for both ends of the spectrum in terms of opinions, the relating of experiences injection of ideas etc. and many of the comments offered thus far have been both entertaining and enlightening but some comments have also seem to have gotten away from the spirit of the forum too and emotional coloring seems to be gaining a foothold and overcoming the main purpose of it which is informational sharing. It may not be the most fruitful avenue to let emotions take over the conversation as it can inhibit others from offering ideas or opinions from which we might learn something. A little tolerance goes a long way. The upcoming holidays can be stressful enough for folks without taking potshots and letting all the emotions take over the conversation regardless of the strength of belief or opinion. Its not worth it.

Don't say it too loud seems like every time I say something like that it happens

Good one Chuck

What do you think the odds are on that coincidence happening ?My hunch would be about a trillion to one...unreal!