Sk8man

Looks like a great "immediately get started trout and salmon fishing" kit

Goodness begets goodness Brian. They know you are a standup guy and hell of a fisherman as do the rest of us that know you.

I agree Ray that the lampreys are a big problem on Seneca. Previous high water conditions in the areas where they spawn allowing them to spawn and get back out into the lake in years past are a part of the current situation. Many of these lampreys are good sized and they can live for 15 or more years so past problems are part of what is plaguing us now. You are also right about the treatment conditions having great impact as time goes on. The TFM needs to be applied at the right time and under the right weather/wind conditions and they aren't always "optimal" by any stretch of the imagination. It is reminiscent of the mid to late seventies when you could fish most of the day without seeing or catching a trout. There are however some other negative things at work in the lake too and it is my hunch that it is a combination of problems that has led to the current state of affairs. The lake (as with Keuka) has been undergoing composition changes that have degraded the water. As you mention farm run-off into the lake (manure/methane, phosphorus, and other chemicals some of which are 'bio-limiting" factors for photosynthesis and weed growth, some which affect the PH level of the water too. It has always been surprising to me that the DEC hasn't required berms of some sort at the edges of farmland and vineyards at the lake edges to reduce run-off. Another disturbing thing is the run-off of lawn pesticides and fertilizers from the highly increased residential development along the lake now. The algae blooms are probably a result of all these nutrients washing into the lake and congregating in certain areas. It has been rumored that the electric plant at Dresden may be cycling massive amounts of lake water without filter screens and if true that may be having an impact on fish numbers as well. The supposedly inadvertent dumping of raw sewage into the lake via the Keuka Outlet certainly hasn't helped lake quality either. Then...we get around to the Zebra, Quagga mussels and waterfleas which have further compounded matters by their filtering activity and zooplankton predation. We always look for a "silver bullet" or single simple answer to problems, but some situations such as these are more complicated and more difficult to fully identify even before figuring out any potential solutions. In the case of the zebras there is a potential chemical solution but it is not possible or feasible . because of the size of these bodies of water and related costs among other things. The out of balance alewife population occurring now doesn't help matters short terms either. Just my take on it....I'm not a scientist either

The problems with Keuka seem to be a little more complicated than just laker imbalance and tanking of the alewife population. Both Keuka and Seneca have complex problems. The overpopulation of lake trout in Keuka sure didn't help things but the nature and character of the lake is changing. It is becoming much more nutrient rich with some of the wrong things. Same is true of Seneca. Keuka has for many years had a problem with chemicals from the vineyards and people's lawns washing into the lake and creating problems. The steep banks in most areas along the periphery of the lake don't help either. The introduction of Zebra and Quagga mussels into the lake more than likely sped up and increased the extent of the problems with increased water clarity out to greater depths. The type of grasses present has also changed with the increase of sunlight and photosynthesis penetrating deeper and the combination of increased sunlight substituting the the slimy green grass stuff replacing much of the native grass beds. To compound things the water fleas eat a lot of the zooplankton and phytoplankton that the small baitfish feed on and they don't survive well in that environment. The lake trout have out-competed the rainbows, browns and Atlantics because they are hardier and more diverse in their feeding habits (witness the predaton of perch and panfish now taking place). Two of the streams I used to fish for rainbows (Guyanoga and Cold Brook) are now in much different shape ( absence of previous "holes" in Cold brook, and presence of manure etc. in Guyanoga) these days so spawning there has probably taken a hit too. In short, the issue of walleye vs. trout/salmon may be a moot issue until some of these other things are properly addressed (if that is realistically possible).

Don't look familiar but the red beads suggest they may be made by Red Eye Spoons which I believe has been under multiple ownerships over the years.

This thread is a good example of how unintentional sparks can turn into wildfires

Nice going Steve. Good to see some active fish coming out of there.

Sweet Mike! You're hanging with the right guys man. Nice work. I hope to get up there soon been too busy with the perch.

The take away from all this is that there is no single "optimal" setting. The setting you use for each one depends on where the fish seem to be located, the approximate depth you wish to achieve in relation to where the fish are how many dipsies you intend to run, and just how your boat is set up to run what you intend to put out there. It also matters what you are running behind the dipsies. Like most of the things encountered in trolling it can be as complicated as you wish to make it The most important thing is to keep effective separation of the dipsies when running more than one per side.

Excellent explanation and write-up Mark. It is often beneficial to look at the glass as being half full rather than half empty

Last night while having a victory drink Bob said " If Canandaigua was the only lake I could fish on I wouldn't even own a boat" The launch ramps at both ends of the lake were a total fiasco yesterday.

Nicely handled.

Congratulations to Bob and Bob my long time fishing buddies They pulled off an 11th hour victory under less than optimal conditions while the rest of us were getting off the lake because of the wind and trouble controlling our setups etc. Once again the lesson: perseverance pays off

Thanks for the heads up Mark. A lot of crazy and dangerous stuff goes on out on these lakes so maybe folks should think about the safety benefits and the fact that these regulations are based on logic and common sense which not everyone has out there. I saw a couple things just today on Canandaigua that could have resulted in perssonal injury and more (e.g. cigar boat showing off at the ramp, kids sitting on the bow of the boat going full blast with no PFD). Many times fishing at night on Honeoye I have witnessed numerous boats traveling at high speed without lights whooping and hollering and clinking bottles and cans We should be supporting the police in their efforts rather than complaining about logical boating requirements. The state police aren't Cuomo's money grabbing cronies they are just folks doing their jobs. As fisherpersons out there we have the responsibility to serve as good examples for the boating public by adhering to the regs and it doesn't mean we are wimps for doing so since most of us are more than casual boaters and should know enough to have the required equipment on our boats.It isn't some unreasonable requirement. There are people out there that have no business driving a boat and they present a danger to all of us.

Nice going Sean.

Sean you have a PM

Here is what they sent me stix. I think they could have done a better job on the details FDpamplet2019.pdf