Sk8man

X2 I've had the 124's down 155 ft in the past for lakers

John is a very busy guy but he is also very honest and conscientious and his work is by far the best around. He may just be busy and not yet had a chance to respond. It is worth being patient as the job he does is well worth waiting for.

A lot depends on how set up and trolling speed etc. I'm not saying it happens all the time at any speed etc.but it does depend on amount of drag or resistance and the Black's can be set at a higher degree of tension at the maximum range while the main strength of the Chamberlains is at the lower tension range (to avoid carrying around small fish or to detect light hitters like some Walleyes). Carefully watching you rod tips can eliminate this when using the Blacks as well. I like both releases ....just noting differences in use.

This thread is an interesting one indeed. As I am reading through it I realize how much it captures the passion involved in so many different angles of the issue of maintaining a viable and vital fishery in these current times. Much of the time our natural tendency is to have our respective perspectives skewed toward our more intense individual passions. We have a lot of legitimate concerns and interests but we may also need to step back away from things a bit and take stock of what we do have right now and be very thankful for it because it is the sum total of years of effort by many people many of whom may remain nameless but their contributions to the fishery which we all enjoy remain. Today we enjoy fishing in a fishery that despite the emerging concerns and issues is one of the best in the nation and one which a lot of others may be scratching their heads right now wondering why there are these "complaints" or passionate concerns. Perhaps it is that we are somewhat "spoiled" and the "us vs.them" appearances of the trib and lake fisherperson's extremely different perspectives amplifies this view. When you step back away from things a bit it is clear that we have a great deal to be thankful for and that the DEC personnel, fisheries staff, the stream pen implementors/maintainers and the various other involved personnel deserve our respect and thanks for their efforts and this is not always clear when viewing commentary here. In short, we need to maintain a more global view of how this fishery benefits all of us, and how and what we can do to improve it. We have enough to be concerned about with the invasives etc. than to be at logger heads among ourselves.

I know for what I am about to say I'll probably get "hammered" and there are many vested interests involved but I have always wondered why the Salmon River wasn't an only C and R stream because of its critical and complex importance to the fishery. Out west many streams are considered as C and R only and their importance to the fishery is much less than the Salmon but the same vulnerability applies.

The only potential difference between the Blacks and the Chamberlains is in the upper tension range. The maximal release tension setting for the Chamberlains is a little over 4 lbs which is quite a bit for normal use but the Blacks can be set to more than that for salmon fishing for example when running large attractors and meat rigs, secret weapon rigs with them on it etc. where the resistance and drag int he water at higher speeds could trigger the Chamberlains.

Good suggestion decent rod at an affordable price (if they come in the 8 1/2 length) I think if memory serves me correctly the wire versions come in even 1 ft lengths. but they have AFTCO rollers which are pretty good.

OK. The reason I said what I did is that most of the common roller tip rods are often shorter in length than 8 1/2 ft I have at least 6 or 8 of them that are 6-7 ft. Others I have are 8 1/2 ft rods that I have converted to roller tip dipsy rods so that was what I was referring to... I merely mentioned the twilli as another option. Some roller tips alone can run into the hundreds of dollars for the really good ones.

If you don't have any success finding one in that length Carol a good solution might be a Diawa Wilderness DM802MR and put either a twilli tip on it or say an Allen (steel sided) roller tip. I have two setups like this and they work fine as my outer dipsies with my shorter roller rods with inside dipsies. These rods are inexpensive but serviceable. They have a flexible tip but the rest of the rod is sturdy so it gives some action to the dipsies.Thye have had plenty of kings test them out

Matt - The Blacks are good for all around use and especially for running things like attractors that have a lot of drag or resistance in the water as they have a pretty extensive range for setting tension. Chamberlains excel at lower range tension settings for fishing for walleyes and detecting small fish and light hitters. For general Finger Lakes trout and salmon fishing the Blacks are fine. Rig them on the downrigger cable itself not at the weight for better and more consistant releases.

They also run with the younger kings out deep in the summer months along the mid south shore (e.g. 300 plus water) and are often viewed as "accidental" catches to underscore Brian's point.

Always good to see someone doing the right thing

Dre you have a PM

Two issues here and perhaps different solutions for each. One is a very dull knife that requires re-doing the edge and the other is a knife that has an edge but needs to be "conditioned" to optimal sharpness. Time spent is also a variable. The Worksharp is a time saver and capable of sharpening from scratch to put a fine edge on a knife but it isn't practical for use "in the field" (e.g. on a boat) for a tune up. The inexpensive ceramic "pocket sharpeners" are OK for "tuning up" a knife out in the field but they don't do a great job of putting a finished enduring edge on a knife. The diamond steels are portable and capable of putting a fine edge on a knife. Although time intensive and more work establishing a basic edge and fine tuning it may be attained using the graduated stones with oil by someone who knows what they are doing can give a lasting edge given a good quality knife to begin with. The angle at which the knife is sharpened is also a big factor because the thinner the blade and edge on it the less durable for some types of use ( e.g. cutting through bones). In short you need the right tool for the job at hand, a good quality knife, and sharpen it according to the intended use. If you have a poor quality steel knife none of the sharpening of edges or particular tools will give superior results.

I usually have the best luck for bows on the Fingers with leads 50 or less Matt but experimenting is always a good idea. Stickbaits may be run back that far and I use a large split shot about 3-4 ft up from the lure to keep it down a bit.

I generally use one 20 ft long for sticks and spoons. If using attractors I hook directly to main line without leader.If you keep them the same length it helps with determining the set back distance from the weight.