Sk8man

I think you'd be amazed at how it simplifies things fishing solo especially Mike.

kayslay is right the victrola is the way to go when pulling copper.The rods are better used for pulling cowbells or running Seth Greens than for copper jerking. The action imparted from a rod is quite different from the artfully delivered hand motions and can make all the difference in the world once you develop the right feel and rhythm. For shallower wire use using monel or copper is the A and S automatic reel but the victrola will get you deeper when the fish go deeper. The thing to check with victrolas is the strength of the spring or springs as some have 2. There are also versions that hook up to battery power. The important feature is that they take up the slack as soon as you release it from your hand eliminating the coiling of the copper where problems can occur (e.g. kinking).

Yeah the ole headshake sure has helped out a bunch of them. I guess the thing to remember is the only thing between you and the fish is that copper wire so when they start the shaking you have to adjust the tension on the copper as much as possible to maintain the contact. They will get tired after a while and usually once they get to that point they will come in without much of it....the trick is to let them do it while maintaining contact through the wire by gently easing off not too much of slack but aafter awhile you get the feel of it. Copper jerking is really an art form and it takes a lot of experience and time to get all of it down solidly

Boat speed is critical Mike especially so you don't get a big bow in the copper and lose feel of the bottom Your speed should be so that you get the tick ticking of the lure on the bottom. Sometimes you need to adjust your boat speed up or down when you have one on to prevent slack in the copper and the hook coming out of the mouth.Steady retrieve on the wire with the fish on can't horse them especially the big ones

Mike if you decide to go in the direction of a victrola Fishy is a good and fair guy to get one from. They make life a LOT easier than coiling on the bottom of the boat

Nice going Mike It can be real addictive esspecially after a few big ones shaking their heads all the way to the boat

The Fishawk uses a 1 amp fuse. They probably feel that it might be less subject to voltage spiking when hooked directly and less likely to be taken out by other electronics with higher amperage draw. I have all my electronics and downriggers hooked directly and fused inline to the battery despite having a fuse box/breaker system present which other things are attached to such as courtesy lights etc.I believe it keeps trouble shooting potential problems simpler too with a direct connect for electronics.

Yup

When I mentioned very close together this is what I meant but it works

Mine is directly next to my Lowrance finder on a transducer mounting plate with my Lowrance set to 200 khz and it works flawlessly. There are some variables such as hull design etc. so it could be different for you but it worked for me.

I agree Ed. That sunfish could make a nice mount Ed

VERY cool Kevin there is no feeling like having one of those fish on copper. I remember being in those sites a long time ago with my kids. Racoons used to have a big nest in the hollow of one of those big trees along there and used to raid my minnow bucket at night

Don it is located on a diagonal southeast from the Country Club out from Glass factory.

Are you still straightening out the copper from the floor Kev?

One of the first tyhings I would do is closely examine the counters on the Mag 10s. The little plastic gears on the counters should cleanly mesh against the gear wheels on the downrigger. There is some play in them naturally but look to see if the gears on either are stripped or missing teeth etc. If not press the platsic gears inward toward the other gear to make sure they mesh together as that is where the slipping occurs giving rise to the inaccurate readings. You may also be able to get new line counters for them isf they are broken at Fish307.com. and replace the counters. The Fishawk TB measures depth in 5 ft increments in response to changes in water pressure on its sensor. The TD is good for quite a few things but may not give you the info you are seeking because it doesn't measure in real time so changes in your motor speed or current etc. will not be reflected in it....its a one time measure at that point in time. My hunch is that you might go bananas trying to count all those 5 ft intervals on the way down....but maybe your attention span is better than mine For many years I just estimated the difference in blowback by looking at the degree of arc in my downrigger cable and the weight position indicated on my depth finder and "gusstimated" where it was actually running and usually kept it at about 30 degrees. One of the things I have recently noted using my X4D is that my estimations were pretty close and that with the shark type weights the blowback effect is not as great as I once thought.

Dan- I'm assuming that you have the usual counters on your mag 10's and are not talking about what to do if no counters. The major difference in depth between a counter and the actual depth the weight is running is mainly accounted for by the boats speed the depth the weight is set at and potential underwater currents pushing against the weight down below. The way your downrigger cable and weight pushes backward is referred to as "blowback". Blowback usually affects the position of the weight by bringing it upward and possibly to the side as well. This means that your lure is probably running higher than the setting on your counter suggests. Having a Fishawk XD positions a probe near the weight which sends weight depth information so that you can compare where the weight is actually running in comparison to you rigger counter. This separates the amount of blowback and also tells you how this relates to your surface boat speed as well as the speed down at the downrigger weight which in some cases may be surprisingly different (e.g. effects of current etc.).

Congrats Mike and crew. Quite a few good lessons in that post...and number one being "don't give up because persistance pays off" One of the oft neglected factors in success is "paying attention to your intuition" ;this is a prime example of that as well. Knowing what to do and when to do it played a huge role also and Mikes approach is something for the rest of us to think hard about during these very difficult recent fishing conditions.Having a "Plan B" and deciding when to employ rather than continuing to do things that aren't working; it is another ingredient for success. My hat is off to you Mike and especially the way in which you involved the kids in that experience.

Some of the best fishermen in the Finger Lakes were out there that know Seneca like the back of their hands spending 12 or more hours per day and they did not do well. The natural thing to do is to question your own competence and strategies but given the fact that so few large fish were caught by just a few folks strongly suggests it is not the fishermen or lack of knowledge, experience, or lack of equipment employed, or employed wrong or in the wrong spots etc. it is the conditions of the lake itself, the proliferation of bait (another indicator of predator to prey being out of whack). I have fished Seneca my entire life with every fishing method, and during the most trying of times (e.g. late 70's) and this is the most out of whack I have ever seen my favorite lake. It is not just one thing responsible; it is a multitude of factors coming together to highly stress the lake environment and the total fishery. Some of the things wrong may be cyclical in nature but I'm pretty sure not all of them, and it is questionable whether even the most important factors may be remediable with just time. Seneca is truly a jewel of the Finger Lakes but its luster has suffered lately and hopefully its true beauty can be renewed somehow.

Nice going Bob. You never know what that sort of experience means to kids even later on it may be just the ticket to gain an interest in fishing or get them through life at some point.....thats what its all about Les

I think bait availability might be at least one factor in the fishing results this year