Sk8man

Man....is that ever true. Aside from whoever has written their Federal grants they are a bunch of idiots....

Good advice and well taken Rick A lot of the suspiciousness and mistrust does appear to relate to a lack of information and lack of direct involvement in the process which could be improved by taking an active part in the meetings, and that certainly is not the fault of the DEC.

My comment wasn't intended to be "argumentative" but rather "explanatory" of the distrust by the many anglers you mentioned, and although I failed to elaborate on it - the relationship the issues have to the Federal governments involvement in shaping state policy and thinking about the stocking of "native" species in Lake O. My own personal thinking on this is "modifiable", and I believe that King Davy made some great points (above) which generates a "OK... lets wait and see" attitude on my part as long as there ian't a concerted effort to replace the kings with Federal agenda.items.

Lucky - I think the important undercurrent running through this issue mainly relates to a lack of trust in state government and players at the upper eschelon rather than any animosity or even misgivings about the competence or good intentions of the scientists or DEC folks involved. I have a healthy respect for science but I also understand that the results of science be used in a variety of ways and especially when money is attached in any way, and the beliefs of the scientists involved in the collection and interpretation of data can be influenced even unconsciously by perceived pressure from the upper eschelon administrators, legislators, and economic considerations. Scientific data and conclusions can be "shaped" consciously or unconsciously to fit these circumstances too. The emotions underlying the king stocking efforts are strong at both "poles" and valid considerations exist at both ends., Atlantic salmon are one of my very favorite species and I specifically fish for them on Seneca and Cayuga Lakes where they seem to be thriving. They are great fighters and wonderful acrobats. I also agree with Brian though as far as Lake O goes....they sure don't seem to be suited to the present environment at this point, may be too fragile, and don't seem to be reproducing in viable populations and the continued focus on "restoration" appears more like a pipe dream than reality.

Lucky - I certainly wasn't referring to efforts toward cleaning up the lake or improving things I was referring to the fact that this "romantic" idea of returning to a by gone era as far as the fishery goes is unrealistic.Those days were ushered out by the Industrial Revolution for god sake. Even returning the lake to its pristine status of that time is unrealistic and impossible but whatever that can be done to improve things it benefits us health- wise as much as anything.. What do you think the chances are that the Great Lakes will get rid of shipping and tankers etc.and bilge emptying? That would go a heck of a lot further in ecological improvement than stocking lakers but again totally impractical. I also can't help but wonder whether we would be dealing with these invasives if the government had been on their toes, and less afraid of offending the shipping industry, and more concerned about the environment by closer monitoring of the shipping traffic than pet programs.

Every time I hear the term "native species" I think to myself : "Who the hell cares about the unrealistic desire to transform the lake back to its "native" state" in terms of the fishery (e.g. Atlantics and Lake trout). Probably the same folks that think it is a good idea to protect cormorants. The Great Lakes are never going to return back to the place when humans weren't around using them (witness the introduction of invasives) and why get stuck in gear with this notion of returning native species to their former state or levels when it is clearly unrealistic and not even desired by most folks.

If there ever was a personal preference issue this is it

As far as the stability factor Whalers are the nuts....I am 200 lbs and can stand on the gunwales without it even tipping at all and it is only an 18 1/2 ft boat. I have friends with larger boats and if two of us stand together in one corner you get wet feet - in mine three or four could stand there (if there was room) and it wouldn't dip at all and the scuppers are located higher. There are many other considerations aside from stability though and that is what you have to work through. No matter what brand boat or size it will always be a compromise. There is no perfect boat for all circumstances just some that are better than others for some situations. A larger boat is not always the answer either, and a lot of folks I have known over the years have come back down in size and type. It depends a lot on how it is to be used. For example the guiding decision on mine was flexibility and safety. I selected the model I have not because iot was the ultimate fishing boat but because it could be both a recreational boat (wife and daughter, swimming. and lounging in August in shallow having a drink or two etc) without the burden of permanently installed riggers, and rod holders in the way etc. All my equipment (with the exception of the trolling motor bracket) can be removed in just a few minutes to convert from fishing boat into recreational boat if needed or left on after fishing to swim without problem. I have fished solo a lot and th boat is small enough to launch by myself comfortably. I fish a lot of different places so I trailer a lot andthis boat does it perfectly. I never worry about safety in it other than if the motor was to konk out in the middle of Lake O but I also have the relatively new 9.8 trolling motor as a possibility for that. As far as fishing goes the boat will get the job done well but is it the perfect fishing boat? no - because it is a compromise that offers flexibility of use. If fishing is the only consideration a different set of concerns would apply. Just something to think about....

Thanks John. Hey Hop you're right it was a mess including the 16 rods I brought on it That is what happens to old timers... "over compensation" and laziness. See what you have to look forward to.....oh that's right you're already close

Cayuga 9-11-17 Thought I was going to Lake O to take my cousin from Tennessee with us for some king action but at last moment he bailed on us. He said that the mornings here in NYS are too cold and he wasn't prepared clothing wise for it. I told him I'd loan him a parka and some moon boots and gloves but he opted out anyway....unreal . My son and I instead decided top go after some silvers on Cayuga and launched at Deans about 6:30 AM. Only one boat there when we parked and it appartently stayed that way through the morning as he was the only boat we saw out there. We marked a ton of bait and a bunch of fish right out from the launch in about 50 ft of water. We tried working them and gave up after no takers and headed north for a short ways with the wind until very shortly we ran into huge pods of grass all over the north so we headed back south with intermittent weeds along the way and it continued all the way to near Millican when we turned around. Mostly west side trolling in and out off the drop offs adjusting three riggers (until the board on the Digitroll on one screwed up) 2 leadcores and a wire rig up and down along the away with no success other than 4 lakers and a dink landlock. We worked mostly the 35-80 ft interval over the various depths. We saw a few fish right on the surface and a couple big ones jumped and they were silver but nothing showed interest when we tried running the riggers up there close. The lakers came on riggers and wire and were up higher than expected (50-60 ft) and we didn't seem to be able to stay away from them. We did see a apir of eagles high up and one that grabbed a silver fish and flew by with it and it was a pretty decent sized fish too. My thinking is that the bright moonlit night had the fish feeding during the night and they just weren't actively feeding and there was an abundance of bait available. Fun time anyway. Interesting how much more bronze colored and more brightly spotted the lakers are in Cayuga than Seneca or Canandaigua for example.

Water temps have to come down yet

If you do happen to catch a keeper cut open its stomach and take a look at what it was feeding on. Often you will find them stuffed with something (tiny crayfish or freshwater shrimp etc.) and that may go a long way in explaining the looking but not biting behavior.Not sure how deep you are fishing for them but iof relatively shallow go deeper as they may be just now moving in closer.....still a little early for the numbers to be in shallow. That's it....I don't want my buddies to lynch me