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Everything posted by Sk8man
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&-17-16 Out of Hughes- Sure looks like a bait problem.....
Sk8man replied to Sk8man's topic in Open Lake Discussion
Brian makes some great points about the lakers and he knows them very well. There are huge differences in the feeding habits of lakers vs. chinooks and lakers may live at least 10 to 15 times as long as a chinook. A very critical difference in their feeding habits in addition to diversity of diet is that chinook are thought be be nearly entirely suspended prey feeders (they are pelagics and in their native ocean environment this makes good sense but with a shift to gobies and others in diet that are bottom dwelling they are screwed by their genetics). They do not heavily feed on the bottom structure like the lakers so when the bait goes deeper the lakers are right with them down there while the chinook are ranging throughout the water column looking for suspended bait. Yes they do go deep looking for them but they are not bottom feeders like the lakers. This can make a huge difference in their survival rate during "hard times". -
It is hard to give a complete answer your question because there are so many variables involved. The currents run in various directions on the lake and are not just one single entity that is highly predictable. They vary from place to place and in intensity as well as up and down in the water column and over structure where it occurs and in relation to water temperature changes. If you carefully observe the angle of your lines and become familiar how they act with different types of setups often you can estimate whether you are running against, across or with the current and possibly whether your lures are running correctly. Is this method as accurate as something such as a Fishawk with down speed? NO but it has been used successfully by seasoned fishermen for a long time even prior to all the existing technology. Accurately assessing this is dependent on knowing some of the traits of the lines you are using (e.g. mono, braid, wire, leadcore, copper etc.) specific to their type and diameter for example as they all behave differently in the water and have a different profile in the water column. They each have a different profile in the water and also depending on what you are running with them (e.g. dipseys. spinneys, dodgers, harnesses or lone spoons or sticks). Knowing how each of your rods acts with these lines is also important and often should be a deciding factor in their selection again depending on what you wish to do with them. The rod tip action can also tell you a lot of information about your speed and whether your lures are doing what you wish them to be doing and this is evaluated taking into consideration the angle of the line in the water and the movement of the tip of the rod itself. The downrigger cable angle is likewise an important thing to continuously monitor. Normally I try to keep mine at about a 15-30 degree angle but when you are in strong current and don't have full control over your boat speed and it depends too on what you are using for weight on the riggers this has concerns or issues (e.g. pancake, ball, fish shape, torpedo style etc.) as well as their specific weight (heavier usually less "blowback" ) but each of them differs too because of their shape and this may be more pronounced in current situations too. It also depends on what you are targeting because their are times fishing for steelies, and salmon running fast capable spoons or sticks that I exceed this angle significantly. If you have a good reliable fish finder you need to continuously monitor how your downriggers appear on there and adjust accordingly but there are limits connected with boat speed such that just letting out more cable if your weights are too light and your speed is too high may not achieve what you desire. I wouldn't forget about GPS speed as it is better than nothing but it doesn't directly correlate with what is going on at the lure level especially in light of the currents you mentioned. It is sort of a relative measure so when you connect with fish using certain setups at a certain GPS speed it can be productive to return to that speed but you have to realize that things down below (e.g. currents can change and at different depth with the same setup things run differently). I know I am giving you a long winded incomplete answer to your question but it is important to understand these basic things and to apply them to the situation as you experiment and find the things that work for you in your boat in your situation at a particular time. The best answers to these questions come from experimenting for yourself over time. This stuff is just something to think about in the meantime. Good luck out there.
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&-17-16 Out of Hughes- Sure looks like a bait problem.....
Sk8man replied to Sk8man's topic in Open Lake Discussion
I always enjoy hearing Vince and Tom's take on things and I think in this situation they have hit on important factors that should be considered in the equation regarding this predator/prey balancing act but I also recognize that the decisions made regarding this issue may be very much outside this issue itself or the common sense experiential information provided by fishermen or "experts" regardless of the quality of it. Although I have never been a part of the DEC or the Albany crowd I did spend more than half my life working in a state agency as a clinician and for awhile as an administrator. The state agencies run on various revenue streams which involve the Federal Government and federal funds. These funds change from time to time to accomodate new Federal regulations and mandates which require the state to change their tactics and procedures (i.e. meeting the Feds requirements) in order to secure these funds as "new" revenue streams supporting their activities so they can continue doing and offering the things and services that they are presently involved in and they protect these vigorously. Where this may become important in this situation s that the Feds seem to be pushing the lake trout as a "native" species or "natural inhabitant" of the Great Lakes with attached funding that may support side efforts of the DEC and perhaps other related agencies as well I don't know. The point I'm getting to here is that regardless of all the incoming information the state receives that seems to make sense to us as fishermen (whether sports angler or charter folks) they have a strong vested interest in maintaining their current revenue streams so things that may interfere with this may go by the wayside. The chinook salmon may be one such "casualty" and not because of the predator/prey balance but because of bureaucratic involvement in the decision making process and the states vested interests. Chinook are my favorite fish out of all whether salt or fresh water and I find the current state of things very disturbing in terms of their future. We question why the state doesn't take into account the money coming in from fishing activities etc.it is because they don't directly receive the sum total of those dollars but they do with their revenue streams which are directly related to their valued activities. -
&-17-16 Out of Hughes- Sure looks like a bait problem.....
Sk8man replied to Sk8man's topic in Open Lake Discussion
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Best Downrigging Line for Salmon Trolling
Sk8man replied to wheelingmike's topic in Open Lake Discussion
I just leave the 30 lb SeaFlee on all season and leader down with 12lb Seaguar for the Finger Lakes and 20 lb for lake O.. I think the brittle stiff nature of fluoro is fine for leaders but not so great for mainlines. and especially so for the riggers. -
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OR just make holes the right size for the toothpicks with a fine drill
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You're kinda like a sidewinder brown trout missle ED
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&-17-16 Out of Hughes- Sure looks like a bait problem.....
Sk8man replied to Sk8man's topic in Open Lake Discussion
Good info and also good to hear that bait has been noted east a bit too Thanks. This issue once again points up the real value of this website....the sharing of information and ideas. In the old days the conclusion would have been reached (based on insufficient information) that the bait was lacking out there rather than distributed in a non-uniform manner both along the shoreline and depth-wise. We are all learning here and this sure underscores the importance of sharing information so that all of us can benefit from it. -
I can feel the browns shaking and getting nervous from here knowing you are on your way after them
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&-17-16 Out of Hughes- Sure looks like a bait problem.....
Sk8man replied to Sk8man's topic in Open Lake Discussion
The currents were operating pretty strongly the other day too Tom and I agree that the DEC should be using different sampling strategies and models for making their assessments regarding the bait situation. Many of their assumptions currently seem to fly in the face of the experiences of many of the charter guys who probably spend many more hours out there than the DEC. I'm not faulting the DEC but merely suggesting they may need to revise their thinking a bit and pay a little more heed to incoming information despite it often being"anecdotal" in nature. -
&-17-16 Out of Hughes- Sure looks like a bait problem.....
Sk8man replied to Sk8man's topic in Open Lake Discussion
As I mentioned at least above "The fish we had also looked VERY healthy too so that is too a good indicator" . Some fish released but I think my buddy may have used the big laker that didn't make it for fertilizer in his garden or something so stomach contents not examined this time. We even commented at the time that their body shapes resembled "piggish browns" Thanks for the report Tom encouraging except for the "adult only bait" not great for the near future....lets hope that turns around. Sometimes with many species when there is a rapid and significant downturn in their population they seem to kick up the reproduction cycles to help regenerate......I sure hope this is the case here too. -
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My hunch is that there is a bug in the last update as mine loses bottom sometimes and the only way I can correct it is to go into the depth setting and change it from "auto" to say 200 ft or something let it acquire bottom and then change it back to "auto" and it then works OK. Never had the problem before the most recent update. Setting it back to the factory defaults helps for awhile but the problem returned on mine..
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&-17-16 Out of Hughes- Sure looks like a bait problem.....
Sk8man replied to Sk8man's topic in Open Lake Discussion
Glad you responded as it sounds as though it is a bait distribution situation and that is a bit of a relief and also probably why the king action has seemed to be west of us for awhile. Probably another good reason not to jump to possible conclusions based on just limited location data. The fish we had also looked VERY healthy too so that is too a good indicator....was a bit disconcerting however to go so far and not see anything.... -
I think Rick hit it right on the head and its kind of the "American way" now everything is "instant" and phone related. The damned things are taking over our lives as is the social media phenomenon. In a way it is pretty sad...we are getting further and further away from directly communicating with others...just one more level removed from human contact. The younger folks growing up with this as their main way of communicating are going to be the ones most affected and then society wonders why kids feel disconnected from each other and from society itself on the personal level....not much of a puzzle really.
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Idaho salmon
Sk8man replied to anytime's topic in New York Fishing Reports - Lake Ontario (South Shore)
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Admiral Byrd and I trolled from 6:15 AM until 6 PM from Hughes and threw everything but the kitchen sink at them. We started in about 140 and worked the water out to 200 plus and back in as we marked fish in there but not out as we went much deeper. We ended the day with 4 kings (biggest about 14 lbs and smallest about 5 lbs) and 3 lakers biggest about 15 plus. All but the one laker (Spin-N-Glow) were caught on Spinneys and green flies (my home made ones and commercial ones so fly color was probably important ) Most fish came about 85-105 down. The largest king had a humongous 18 inch lamprey on it which we got into the boat and the Admiral applied his "loving touches" to its head with pliers. thus preventing its genetics from further dispersal. During those 12 hrs we did mark intermittent fish down deep in the 100 or so range and a few in the 60-75 ft range but they didn't seem interested in our offerings. The fish we did catch seemed to come out of nowhere especially the king I got on the 200 copper with mag dipsey and spinney/fly . No action whatsoever on the spoons regardless of presentation technique. Had one downrigger release with one on but gone when got to the rod. The most unusual thing is that we didn't see bait anywhere even when we cruised in closer after pulling lines etc. We saw a couple tiny things that could have been a small amount of bait (or maybe flea pod) and that was it. For the most part it appeared like a vast desert out there in terms of active life forms. In the past I've always seen some bait within that trolling range often hugging the bottom with some suspended at this point in the season especially considering we trolled past Ginna to the west and half way to Sodus Point east. On a brighter note. the fleas weren't bad even on a leadcore that was out for quite awhile and we didn't encounter the nasty biting @#%$&* flies . We also saw a few dead seagulls as reported buy others.
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trolling spoons with a fixed slider
Sk8man replied to Ohreelyfishing's topic in Questions About Trout & Salmon Trolling?
OR slow your speed down that may be what is twisting them together -
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You're very welcome. From what I'm hearing the fleas are starting to get bad and that is when I leave my braid stuff at home. For me at least braid seems to clog up the most of anything I use and wire is easier to clean them off. I'm assuming you have magnum size dipseys to get down where you wish to be and as far as the Deep 6 Divers that they are #5's which will get down to about 90 ft. I'm not real familiar with the dive curve for the Deep 6's but I'm thinking you'll have to let out more line than that (also depends on the diameter of the braid to an extent) to get to 90 ft. probably close to 280-300 maybe with flasher/fly (and depending on size and type of flasher ='s drag). I think you can figure about a 3 to 1 on the mag dipseys so the 225 seems reasonable for the 70 ft. I think what I would do (which is different than how I run my stuff because I am set up differently than you describe and you didn't mention boards etc.) is to think about running the flasher/ flies on the Deep 6's one on the side and one straight back on the opposite rear area of the boat at those deepest depths and with the dipseys one off the side running at 50 ft. set at 1 1/2 to 2 and the other straight back at 70 ft. set at 1 1/2 or 2.. If set at 2 you may have to have more line out than you think too. I'm assuming here that the two Deep 6's are running at something resembling a 0 setting on a dipsey (e/g/ straight down and back). I would hope that this type of setup would give you the necessary separation while covering the way you wish in the water column. You could also take your chances and run the two Deep 6's one off each side set to 1 to 1 1/2 and run the dipseys off the rear set each set to 1 1/2 to 2 but again you'll have quite a bit of line out and if taking any radical turns either setup could be a problem Other folks may have different thoughts on it. Good luck with it and with the fishing.
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I think before the main question can be answered it is important to know things like whether you are using wire or mono on the dipseys and the specific size of each of the dipseys and what you intend to run behind them and what species you intend to target.
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