Sk8man

wishinfishin Thanks bud.

Cool report and it sure is great seeing the old school Hemlock spinner with sawbelly... one of my derby "go to's" and those Spin N glows sure put a hurting on the lakers don't they? I am also still impressed with the fact that we can share this info on here vs. the "old days" where folks "guarded" everything and the best you could do was try to interpret or read between the lines of CB communications I know.....I'm a dinosaur Good luck out there.

I just did a preliminary search regarding perception of color in fish and came up with an interesting article that may be of interest: (Although it uses fly fishing as an example it is also relevant here) http://midcurrent.com/science/fish-eyesight-does-color-matter/

The article is an appropriate one and it hints at the central issue when Seneca is discussed and that is "complexity". There are folks that believe that the lake is dying and others who suggest that there is nothing wrong whatsoever ....that it is only a "cyclical" minor downturn. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. There is a complex change or set of changes going on out there; some of which may be natural processes (e.g. gradual eutrophication or gradual change in the type of lake water/underlying bottom structure such as siltation and vegetation structure associated with changes in warming of the water and/or chemical structure such as availability of bio-limiting factors such as nitrogen or phosphates). The article mentions numerous additional man introduced factors which may hasten the eutrophication process as well as other things which may be offshoot issues and theintroduction of invasives with yet unknown ramifications . Despite the dire forecasts Seneca is far from dead and I do remember folks pronouncing Lake Erie dead only to rise from the "ashes" and become a very viable fishery. It also does appear that some form of change needs to occur inthe way the periphery of the lake is used to curb obvious run off such as fertilizer and animal waste from farming, the introduction of pesticides and nitrogen containing chemicals such as lawn fertilizers as well as pest control products containing toxins known to kill fish. I see a lot of this same thing on Canandaigua Lake as well and it is frustrating as well as dangerous as some of these chemicals or their constituents remain in the drinking water and are not taken out by the treatment process. Seneca Lake does not "suck" for fishing but it has become more difficult to fish and especially for folks unfamiliar with the lake and the habits of the fish. Changes are certainly occurring in the lake but I don't believe anyone yet has a handle on exactly what is going on out there or the potential impact over the next few years let alone the future. For those folks unfamiliar with the lake I'd suggest doing a charter with either Nick http://www.reelstoriesfishingcharters.com/index.html or Sean http://www.reelhookedup.com to get a good feel of the lake and some tips to improve your fishing experience.

Pap they are pretty solid downriggers I have a couple but without the autostop feature. Unlike some folks I am a pretty patient guy at least with fishing stuff and they are slow but I like that as it gives me time to deal with other stuff while they are coming up and I never worry about them screwing up because they are coming up too fast. I just have the drag adjusted on them so that if they come up to the tip of the rigger they just slide and the slight noise alerts me and I hit the off switch ....not a big deal. I will say however that you shouldn't use the weights that are heavier than 10 lbs as Cannon later went to a heavier duty motor. I've had two of my riggers (that are 10A's) since I bought them brand new in 1985 and they still function perfectly after thousands of hours of use. One of them still has the original wire on it With that said I think $150 - $ 175 is a fair price for one still in the box. It would be a decent rigger even if you used it primarily for walleyes etc. with lighter weights. I use swivel bases on all my riggers (all are the telescoping boom type)

I give up

I guess what I was referring to may surprise some folks but there is actually no such thing as color itself. It is merely the eye/brain interpretation of given wavelengths on the electromagnetic spectrum and in humans for example it is very subjective and highly dependent on labeling. There are also physical dimensions that come into play as in color blindness for certain colors or irregularities in the cones present in an individuals eye causing them to see no color or perhaps fragmented color (e.g. on a color blindness test they may see a 3 instead of an 8 because of a cone "defect". Colors are also described differently by different cultures for example. I know there are a lot of opinions out there about color theory and a lot of assumptions about what fish in particular respond to but this is exactly what I am noting here is that the inferences that are made regarding fish behavior in response to different wavelengths of color are just that.....inferences probably based on preference judgments which in and of themselves may be problematic as we can't actually interview the subjects regarding specifics and we are limited to just the gross behavioral response actions which may be more complicated than we think. The video above is very interesting and it should get us thinking but there are inherent problems with making hard fast conclusions at this point about what is going on there. As in magic tricks things seen by the naked eye events are tricky enough directly observed but when you introduce something like a cameras etc. you have to remember you are levels removed from the actual situation itself as Gator noted.

Nice going Brad and good report. Folks who might be relatively new to this sport (trolling) can certainly benefit from your comments and regardless of experience level people can learn from each other much better via actual experience out there. Reading stuff is nice but a lot of things are much better understood and incorporated by watching others who are very capable and asking questions as you mentioned and sometimes folks are either too shy, embarrassed, or reluctant to ask the critical questions. Nick has a great grasp of this stuff and certainly hasthe range of equipment available so that people can see exactly how stuff operates and so does Sean Brown down at that end of the lake. Thye are bot very personable guys and are generous with their information. Going out there with highly competent experienced captains is like taking a real good 'hands on" course in something and sometimes folks grumble about money issues, but then turn around and spend twice as much on some marginal online course or workshop or something . Spending a few bucks accelerating your learning curve in a sport that you love is "priceless" just as is your time. Brad give Dutch my best regards . Les

The one question I always have regarding the ability to see color at depth is how do we know what the fish actually sees? We seem to base our opinions on what humans appear to see and given different eye structure I can't help but wonder if we are may be inferring or assuming some things that might not be accurate.

Although the 40 lb Big Game may work I don't think really there are any "fool proof" solutions as I have seen huge deposits of fleas on even thicker lines and downrigger cable as well clogged so bad it couldn't be retrieved. There are different varieties of fleas which have slightly different habits and "abilities" to cling. A lot of times folks believe that they are using things that fully work until they encounter the densities I am referring to. The fleas are distributed differently indifferent sections of bodies of water and at different levels or stratifications so that when your line is in a vertical position and you happen to encounter them in clusters the problem varies in severity from none to fully loaded lines.

They cluster on it and prevent the line from coming through the tip and eyelets of the rod. THe 30 lb Blood Run Sea Flee is one of the few lines that seems to largely minimize this and previously Cortland Line company made a line called Flea Flicker that also did the job fairly well. Some folks use standard line at 30 lb test (e.g. Berkeley Big Game). The reason for the 30 lb test if that the larger diameter is though to keep the fleas from adhering well to the line. The Sea Flee also has a rather slick coating which helps shed the fleas. The line also has considerable stretch so it takes a little getting used to on downriggers etc.but it is well worth using. I use a 20 lb Seagaur fluoro leader for Ontario and 12 lb for the Finger Lakes.

Nice going Dick and company. You sure picked a the right charter. Certainly one of the best on this side of Lake O and is the first one I recommend when folks ask. If the Hajecki's aren't into them nobody is.

Sorry if my wording sounded wrong I sure wasn't intentionally putting you down or anything (e.g. "get by") and I understand your dilemma too. Maybe giving Airmar tech dept a call would put you on the right path. They are very saavy and may have suggestions for you. Airmar transducers are very good quality and if you can match up either way I think you'll be a happy camper. Good luck with it.

I hate being redundant in my comment but you really need a new transducer the old Airmar will not be compatible with the si for starters. Airmar transducers are the wya to go but you always need the right one for the unit itself depending on the functions of the unit and the specific frequency. The right transducer is critical and is not something you "try to get by" with.

It will depend on a few things: 1. The specific khz designation of the transducer and the unit - they have to match 2. The plug fitting on the end of the transducer cord has to be the right one for the unit. 3. Condition of the existing transducer - A transducer that old may be compromised in some way (e.g. may be less sensitive than required by the new unit). Your best bet is to get a new matched transducer for the new unit and properly install it or have it installed for the best result.

You can reach him on here Mike - flytying (Carl)

Sounds like some encouraging signs regarding Seneca. Sweet landlocks guys.