Sk8man

That is one real cute dog Dave congrats!

I think your wife must have been out of town a lot

Fishy -I probably should sometimes Gerry tangled 456 - A jug or float rig is where rather than having your rod lines going down at the sides of the boat you instead attach a float of some type to the top bead chain of your rig line so that that it floats that entire setup out in back and away from the boat and your other lines (leaders etc.) It is called a jug rig because some folks use empty milk jugs or empty Clorox bottles while I use large orange styrofoam floats something like used on commercial seines or nets at the top and painted orange for good visibility. I have seen all sorts of things used for example foam duck decoys with rudders that place them off to the sides as well.. When you use multiple jug rigs you have to be very careful to keep them adequately spaced so they don't tangle and be careful to make very gradual wide turns to keep from tangles. Also when you get a fish on the far jug rig ((you set your drag properly so you can tell when a fish hits and watch your rod tip) you have to be careful when that rig is pulled in past the other rig which you often let out further so they pass each other but it depends on exactly how they have been set up distance wise etc. It sounds more complicated than it actually is. The best way to learn this particular stuff is to go with someone who knows what they are doing and watch them. (and yes I only run three rigs when I go solo)

Geez John and here I was waiting for the Easter Bunny to come.....I knew something bad must have happened

I rest my case as far as Hop being a major buster....there is the proof in black and white .

A million ways to do it but for the last 40 or 50 years I've tried most of them and then each time go back to "old school" stainless 7 strand 30-60 lb (60 a little better for fleas than the 30lb during the height of flea season) wire with a 30 lb mono rig line and I use 12 lb fluoro leaders attached with wire spring connectors at the rig end hooked to bead chain swivels on the mono rig line and ball bearing swivels on the lure end. I've experimented with different spacing as well and for the past 30 years (20-25 ft is most commonly used by others) but I have used 12 ft intervals for my 10 bead chains so that depending on the season and what I'm fishing for in particular or which lures I use I can adjust them for either the 12 intervals or 24 ft and still have room for a jug if I want to run it that way. That way I can go even into about 60 ft of water without getting hung up (12 ft intervals) or I can fish out deep and go deeper for lakers if I wish. Normally I only fish for lakers during derbies so I run my stuff toward the top 75 ft (especially the jug rigs) most of the time to avoid lakers).. Stainless wire cuts thorough the water much better than leadcore and dacron but not as well as braid but it is much more durable than either. I've had a couple of my rigs used with the same wire but different rig lines for over 30 years. You need to take care with crimps but other than that it is pretty foolproof. I use Penn 309's with power handles on 6 1/2 ft Roller rods. I use from 24 -40 oz weights depending on whether they are used as side or down rods or jug lines for rainbows/landlock or browns(24-32 oz). I generally run 3-4 rigs with 5 leaders each. In the old days we ran 4 rigs with 15 leaders each as the regs permitted it back then if single hooks were used on the spoons (max 15 points per line then not max 5 lures or leader as now). This would entail 2 side rigs and two jug rigs run in tandem about 50-150 ft apart. I also glue the rig line knot connections with Seal All glue to prevent possible knot failures. I coat all my sinkers with black Plasti Dip so that they don't mar up the boat and I don't have to actually handle lead (just in case I lose a fish and suck my thumb while upset) . The wire spring connectors I make myself and they are larger than the ones you can buy because they are easier to handle in cold weather especially with the beads I add for grip.If you are a Finger Lakes person and want to get set up using Seth Green rigs I suggest you check with Fishy Business near Keuka Lake State Park. He has all the stuff in his tackle shop and is very knowledgeable and heavily experienced with Seth Greens. Fishy is also here on Lou so contact him for current hours etc. In the bead chain pic you'll notice that there are different sizes and strengths of bead chains as well as a couple different types that employ clevices to attach your connector to so you need to know whether they will clear the rod tip and eyes. I use a threeway swivel at the very end of the rig line for the first leader to be attached as well as the sinker suspended about 2 ft on a 20-25 lb mono drop line (so if you get hung on bottom it will break away first saving the rest of your stuff) My thermoclining buddies Admiral Byrd and Hop (who are major ball busters) have somewhat different approaches which are just as successful and mine is only one way to do it.

I used to use them on both fly rods and spinning rods on Seneca and Owasco for rainbows and browns and they would have worked on landlocks but they were just starting to stock them on Seneca back then . Here are some of the ones that worked: I used small keel weights as described above or a couple large split shot trolled way behind the boat and making a lot of turns

They look great Mike. If I didn't tie my own and already have a million of them I'd be biting

I think the greatest thing about this website is the fact that folks can share info and opinions that allow others to react and offer additional insights....it is what learning is all about. For example the comments from hermit and 2lbperch are very illuminating and are more valuable pieces to add to the "puzzle". I guess a lot of us including me have mixed or conflicting feelings about some of these issues but it is important to discuss since we all have a vested interest in the environment and the fishery in particular. Divergent opinions and views are just as important to understanding as the "status quo" views and I guess a little tolerance for this goes a long way in either case. I for one feel that I have learned from this post and the views expressed and thanks to all who have interacted. It gives a lot to further think about.

Too late for me

Good news Hop (and thanks for checking I was real worried about accuracy....OCD)

Back in the sixties the weed beds were very thick and pervasive and the reason was that phosphates were present in large amounts coming into the lake and phosphate in that situation was thought to be coming from things like laundry detergents etc. emptying into the watershed. The phosphate was considered a biolimiting factor and basically served as a catalyst for rapidly accelerating photosynthesis and plant growth. Regulations were put in place to limit the use and dispersion of phosphates and the weed overgrowth reduced drastically over the span of many years and this effect was very noticeable at the north end of Seneca for example. From what I gather an important element of the current problem relates to a different substance (s) namely nitrogen and nitrates which also accelerate processes in the water such as algae growth. Thes chemicals are present in fertilizers of various types such as those used in farming and on residential and commercial lawns and maybe the vineyards as well. There are also pesticides being used all along the lakes both in farming and by wineries and lawns and especially because the terrain is very hilly and steep when it rains significantly this stuff runs off the ground surface into the lakes.It would seem to me that there should be regulations put in place to limit this problem by requiring any such activities to build barriers or burms along the edges of the properties to contain these run-offs at the very least. I know people don't like to hear the word regulations but in some cases such as this they become necessary as we can't rely on people's "good will" alone to protect us from the effects of this.....keep in mind that water treatment facilities can not filter out all of these contaminants either so it is seeping into the drinking supplies of many communities as well. Before anyone responds by calling me a "tree hugger" or "communist conspirator" these things are a matter of public record in a variety of places.

If in the boat just cut them as described and keep them in the net over the side till they drain...keeps the boat a bit cleaner