Sk8man

The 50 braid does a great job cutting through the water but I have lost two entire rig lines made of it with all the equipment attached so that was it for me....I just don't trust it for that particular application never any problem with the other setups but some of my buddies prefer braid and it works for them (sort of like the downrigger issue of braid vs. wire you need to have confidence in whatever you use). I also think it may be a bit more important if you do a lot of deep fishing (over 100-150 ft or more) in that braid reduces "blowback" but within my major range above that it isn't much of a problem I just use heavier sinker if needed..

It is a multiple leader (up to 5 maximum now) trolling system with the leaders spaced apart (often 20-25 ft apart) used primarily for deep water trolling for trout and salmon. A 2 -4 lb weight is at the bottom of it and a variety of depths can be trolled at a single time with just one setup so that you can have 5 lures going through say 100ft at a time. It is very effective and especially when the thermocline forms in the lakes as it can be set up to cover above below and within the thermocline itself maximizing your potential for fish of various targeted species. The Seth Green was named for it's originator who fished it first on Keuka lake in the 1800's and it is also called a "thermocline rig" or just plain "rig". He also started the first trout fish hatchery (Caledonia. NY I believe). Some folks refer to it as "meat fishing" and various other names and sometimes in a derogatory way and they sometimes say it isn't worth doing because you can't feel the fish (especially small ones) with the heavy sinker and rods etc. but my suspicion is that most of those people haven't even tried it, don't understand how to actually do it, or are too lazy to do it (it does entail some work) because it is truly a lot of fun and one of my favorite ways to fish out of all the fresh and salt water fishing techniques.

That is one real cute dog Dave congrats!

I think your wife must have been out of town a lot

Fishy -I probably should sometimes Gerry tangled 456 - A jug or float rig is where rather than having your rod lines going down at the sides of the boat you instead attach a float of some type to the top bead chain of your rig line so that that it floats that entire setup out in back and away from the boat and your other lines (leaders etc.) It is called a jug rig because some folks use empty milk jugs or empty Clorox bottles while I use large orange styrofoam floats something like used on commercial seines or nets at the top and painted orange for good visibility. I have seen all sorts of things used for example foam duck decoys with rudders that place them off to the sides as well.. When you use multiple jug rigs you have to be very careful to keep them adequately spaced so they don't tangle and be careful to make very gradual wide turns to keep from tangles. Also when you get a fish on the far jug rig ((you set your drag properly so you can tell when a fish hits and watch your rod tip) you have to be careful when that rig is pulled in past the other rig which you often let out further so they pass each other but it depends on exactly how they have been set up distance wise etc. It sounds more complicated than it actually is. The best way to learn this particular stuff is to go with someone who knows what they are doing and watch them. (and yes I only run three rigs when I go solo)

Geez John and here I was waiting for the Easter Bunny to come.....I knew something bad must have happened

I rest my case as far as Hop being a major buster....there is the proof in black and white .

A million ways to do it but for the last 40 or 50 years I've tried most of them and then each time go back to "old school" stainless 7 strand 30-60 lb (60 a little better for fleas than the 30lb during the height of flea season) wire with a 30 lb mono rig line and I use 12 lb fluoro leaders attached with wire spring connectors at the rig end hooked to bead chain swivels on the mono rig line and ball bearing swivels on the lure end. I've experimented with different spacing as well and for the past 30 years (20-25 ft is most commonly used by others) but I have used 12 ft intervals for my 10 bead chains so that depending on the season and what I'm fishing for in particular or which lures I use I can adjust them for either the 12 intervals or 24 ft and still have room for a jug if I want to run it that way. That way I can go even into about 60 ft of water without getting hung up (12 ft intervals) or I can fish out deep and go deeper for lakers if I wish. Normally I only fish for lakers during derbies so I run my stuff toward the top 75 ft (especially the jug rigs) most of the time to avoid lakers).. Stainless wire cuts thorough the water much better than leadcore and dacron but not as well as braid but it is much more durable than either. I've had a couple of my rigs used with the same wire but different rig lines for over 30 years. You need to take care with crimps but other than that it is pretty foolproof. I use Penn 309's with power handles on 6 1/2 ft Roller rods. I use from 24 -40 oz weights depending on whether they are used as side or down rods or jug lines for rainbows/landlock or browns(24-32 oz). I generally run 3-4 rigs with 5 leaders each. In the old days we ran 4 rigs with 15 leaders each as the regs permitted it back then if single hooks were used on the spoons (max 15 points per line then not max 5 lures or leader as now). This would entail 2 side rigs and two jug rigs run in tandem about 50-150 ft apart. I also glue the rig line knot connections with Seal All glue to prevent possible knot failures. I coat all my sinkers with black Plasti Dip so that they don't mar up the boat and I don't have to actually handle lead (just in case I lose a fish and suck my thumb while upset) . The wire spring connectors I make myself and they are larger than the ones you can buy because they are easier to handle in cold weather especially with the beads I add for grip.If you are a Finger Lakes person and want to get set up using Seth Green rigs I suggest you check with Fishy Business near Keuka Lake State Park. He has all the stuff in his tackle shop and is very knowledgeable and heavily experienced with Seth Greens. Fishy is also here on Lou so contact him for current hours etc. In the bead chain pic you'll notice that there are different sizes and strengths of bead chains as well as a couple different types that employ clevices to attach your connector to so you need to know whether they will clear the rod tip and eyes. I use a threeway swivel at the very end of the rig line for the first leader to be attached as well as the sinker suspended about 2 ft on a 20-25 lb mono drop line (so if you get hung on bottom it will break away first saving the rest of your stuff) My thermoclining buddies Admiral Byrd and Hop (who are major ball busters) have somewhat different approaches which are just as successful and mine is only one way to do it.

I used to use them on both fly rods and spinning rods on Seneca and Owasco for rainbows and browns and they would have worked on landlocks but they were just starting to stock them on Seneca back then . Here are some of the ones that worked: I used small keel weights as described above or a couple large split shot trolled way behind the boat and making a lot of turns

They look great Mike. If I didn't tie my own and already have a million of them I'd be biting

I think the greatest thing about this website is the fact that folks can share info and opinions that allow others to react and offer additional insights....it is what learning is all about. For example the comments from hermit and 2lbperch are very illuminating and are more valuable pieces to add to the "puzzle". I guess a lot of us including me have mixed or conflicting feelings about some of these issues but it is important to discuss since we all have a vested interest in the environment and the fishery in particular. Divergent opinions and views are just as important to understanding as the "status quo" views and I guess a little tolerance for this goes a long way in either case. I for one feel that I have learned from this post and the views expressed and thanks to all who have interacted. It gives a lot to further think about.