Sk8man

Last year I took 3 buddies from other states out fishing from Sampson and on the way out there I mentioned about the white deer and how they are very often out there.....they said "sure Les ....yeah... white deer... right ". You might know them none were around nor anything else for that matter so they busted me all day and then during the way back same deal. Later I scoured my hard drives for previous photos of them and finally located a couple which I promptly sent to them with the caption "There you aholes" Thankfully I had the proof

I guess one of the reasons I mentioned the radiation issue is that back in the 60's I stood right next to those nuclear weapons most days that came from there at my base over in Germany. We had docimeters (measure radioactivity) that we were required to wear at all times while on duty and they collected them enmass when we left there but nobody was personally identified with them or given any information regarding the info they collected so I'm pretty sure there may be some radiation "issues" at least for the mass storage of them. At the time the depot was the third largest nuclear storage area in the world. I am not worried about any security breach of the info at this point as the facility has been closed for many years but I still can't help but wonder about the contamination issue.

Chas brings up a good point....it isn't "sissy stuff" to wear a life jacket out there either just good common sense and a good use for something most of us already have available.

The deer are not albinos by the way. I can't help but wonder if genetic mutation is involved and possibly related to radiation. Many of those bunkers housed nuclear weaponry. It is interesting that nobody mentions having the area checked relative to that before offering it for sale or those folks buying it.

Another option is the Arctic Armor https://www.idigear.com/idi-gear-about which is what my son and I have. They are extremely comfortable, exceptionally warm, durable, waterproof, windproof and contain a waterproof filler that is bouyant called Insultex. It is the warmest suit I've ever owned. I think mine ran about $400 which wasn't cheap but what it your life worth? We've had our suits for about 9 years already and they are still in good condition. One of the things to consider is whether or not you wish to get the PLUS suit that has a soft fuzzy liner that although comfortable and very warm it seems to catch on your clothing putting it on over your other clothes....minor thing but worth mentioning. It is the one I have and despite the minor annoyance putting it on and off the warmth/comfort factor overrides this. We also had the "opportunity" to "test" them out and they work very well.

They are kinda "floppy" and wobble a bit and the big boys and girls of each of those species seem to be in love with them for some reason I've used them from shore and trolling in the boat.

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Although the ice pick things could be helpful in a specific situation helping you to stay next to the edge for example but remaining above the water and ice is the critical thing and if in deep water you may be underneath immediately without warning and not come right up near the hole (currents etc.). In my view the safest thing is still the float suit because it prevents you from going under in the first place and allows you to turn on your back on the surface and paddle to and across the edge of the ice. I hate to admit it but this opinion is based on going in the water both with and without one.

There is currently a proposal being worked on regarding some of the human aspects of the situation to be presented to the DEC to consider.

It is true that there are still perch and other fish there but my point is this: Unless you have had the opportunity to view this situation long term it may not be apparent that there have been such massive changes in the situation. I have seen the bottom carpeted with perch for hundreds of yards so dense that you couldn't see between individual fish in the past. I have seen panfish and bass fighting with each other in the shallow water and around docks to get at your bait amidst gigantic schools of minnows of various types swimming the shallows. All sorts of comments and explanations can be offered regarding why or to support how great things still are but this is the reality of the current situation. You can still catch limits out there if you know how and where and what to use when but how long this will continue is the question in my mind given all the environmental and human pressures coming to bear right now. Assuming that the lake is fine right now and everything will be fine without any changes is not a wise assumption. It is the overall picture of things I'm concerned with.

One of the most productive things regarding self preservation is to buy a suit that offers flotation (e.g. Ice Armour,Mustang etc.) so that you don't go under the ice. That is the first thing I did for my son and I after my encounter in 2004 where I had a snowmobile suit and moon boots on and was all by myself out there at 6:45 AM (like an idiot) and went through in 5 ft of water several hundred yards from shore. The first objective should be related to staying on top of the water then all the other stuff comes into play. It doesn't protect you from hypothermia but it at least gives you a chance to get your butt out of there. If you go under you have no such chance.

They look like some Cabela's (and perhaps other places as well (back in the early 80's) blanks that came pre-painted in a few basic colors and the ladder and tape were added by someone. I doctored up some at the time too See pic. They worked well for pike and lakers slow trolled on toplines way back off outriggers in the early Spring in 10-20 ft of water in the Finger Lakes. They were similar to the old Marathon spoons but without the little "flippers" on the back

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/02/michigan-dad-son-die-after-fall-though-lake-while-ice-fishing.html

They are usually not actively hitting when down real deep like that in my experience (numerous attempts in the 250 -300 ft range in the past when marking large fish down there) using wire thermocline rigs with heavy weights. I too am now jealous after seeing that pic

After fishing Seneca for my entire lifetime I can vouch for the fact it has been through a lot of "changes" some good and some not so good. The specific perch spots have changed significantly with the introduction of the Zebras and Quaggas and those invasives (along with others) have impacted things in a big way. A lot of the traditional spots have either disappeared as being inhabitable by the perch, their food has been removed in an indirect manner by the straining activity of the mussels of the organisms that their "food" preys on, or they have sought deeper water and not necessarily near those spots where things may not be quite so bad. Cameras also reveal that there is little bottom structure that is nearly covered or totally covered in mussels of various types and this is not just in the shallower regions....Quaggas go deep we recently saw the bottom totally covered in 60ft in a favorite spot as an example. It is my belief that the traditional shallower spawning areas for the perch may also be covered with mussels which may be disturbing the reproductive cycle in the lake perhaps with respect to other shallow water species as well (gills, sunnys and bass). A look with a camera reveals that in many places in the lake the bottom is so covered that there are no distinguishable features left there. Are some folks still catching perch "yes" but it remains how long this will be the case and the lake is certainly not producing the numbers and sizes once seen during previous periods when conditions were much better (e.g. before the introduction of the invasives). The most disturbing thing for me is the stark change in the shallower waters around the periphery of the lake and near docks etc. When I was younger (yes there were dinosaurs then too ) these areas were chocked full of minnows of various species, large and smallmouth bass, perch, sunfish, and bluegills....that we would catch one right after another and crowding to get at the bait (e.g. right near the launch at Seneca Lake State Park for example) these areas are now devoid of life of any kind and you'd be hard pressed to see a single fish let alone schools regardless of time of the year.. and this condition is not confined to Seneca The Seneca Canal at the north end of the lake also used to be a teeming environment for smaller warm water species and huge pike and pickerel.....it too is largely uninhabited in appreciable numbers of fish. This is the current reality and it does not appear to be getting better. To add to this problem with the perch Seneca Lake has been advertised as the best perch lake in New York State and folks have bragged for years about the "jumbos" or "elephant perch" coming from the lake. This has in my view led to unprecedented fishing pressure and especially in those rapidly disappearing areas where the perch are now congregated and are vulnerable for one reason or another. Greed has also played a significant role in this situation because some of these people take multiple, limits per day when they locate the congregated perch and some take ALL perch they catch rather than put back the very large ones and small ones with little to no meat on them..... and some for the money derived from the sale of the perch meat is also a driving factor. This has all been going on for years so is it any wonder that things are noticeably deteriorating?

We need an autopilot for this thread

I'm totally with John on what he mentioned above. reliability and repeatability are the name of the game.

Yeah they are something ...I 've found a frog and a bullhead in them in the past. A long time ago my son and I came across a huge one with his head out of the water swimming in shallow water in Seneca and when we got closer we realized he had a great big perch jammed in his throat that he was trying to get down. The perch flared his gills and probably flared his dorsal as they do so he couldn't swallow it

Good going John....those LL' are pretty tasty too. This sure is one year that I wish I hadn't put my boat away.....of course If I hadn't the weather would probably have been like last years At least I've had time to get all my stuff rigged for Spring with the fishing lull

That garage floor is without doubt the coolest one I've ever seen