Sk8man

You know me too well Bob

I went solo this morning on the spur of the moment and I'd first like to thank Redeye and his buddy for giving me a hand at the launch in that PIA SW wind. I initially arrived at Sampson launch at 6:30 AM but the wind was really cranking so after waiting to see if it was going calm I decided to visit the Lodi launch and check things out there with the thought also of possibly trailering to Watkins. It was very choppy at Lodi and only one double axle trailer was in the lot so I decided "screw it" and headed back home. When I reached Sampson again I thought I'd check it out again before heading home and it didn't look as bad now so I launched (with the above help) sometime after 9 AM and headed south. After running aways I kept going south but with the big motor against the waves which were pretty brutal anyway I got 2 downriggers with sliders out and a 250 copper but it was hectic solo and then I looked at the depth finder and was marking all kinds of bait and fish in 70-120 ft of water down 40-60 ft. then I discovered it was unfishable in there because the weeds floating were huge and terrible. After clearing my lines several times and resetting I gave up and moved out deeper but the weeds were at intervals out to 400 ft of water. I trolled all spoons out in the 400 -550 ft range all the way to Lodi and picked up three rainbows about 18-22 inches and a laker about 5-6 lbs (never marked any of them) all on the main spoons on the downriggers down 45 and 55 nothing on copper. I trolled back north with the wind which was picking up when I reached Lodi and trolled all the way to the chute at Sampson going in and out of the 300-500 ft range and never had a touch and when I turned at Lodi I substituted a 6 color leadcore for the copper and it too was dead the whole time despite changing spoons on everything multiple times. I marked about2 fish and two bait pods out deep and that was it. Everything (fish and bait) appears to be within 70- 120 ft range so for anyone going in that area don't waste your time out deep they aren't there. If the weeds somehow clear out of there with a wind change and the rest stays the same someone could have a field day in there on all that stuff but today it wasn't doable and was very frustrating. A few fleas were noted when I briefly ran 2 5 leader Seth Green rigs but not on the other stuff.

Slob time Nice work Mike!

Pap you have a PM

Yes Justin I was very lucky actually. I did buy a somewhat larger box to put the dried out lures back in but I am still stuck with multiple boxes as they number in the hundreds. The way the Great Lakes spoons have been working I may be as well off just carrying them with me Your system sounds like a real good one. I know what you mean about those idiots out there too. There were a bunch on Labor Day here on Canandaigua. They use their boats 2 or 3 times a year and "don't have a clue". A long time ago when I only had a couple trout rods (spinning rods/reels at that) and my little 13 ft Whaler I was on Sodus Bay when a big engine bass boat crossed my outrigger lines at full tilt and spooled both reels so I had to quit fishing and drive home as I didn't have extra line or the money to buy it . Talk about being pizzed....probably lucky I forgot about my flare gun

Tim makes some good points regarding weight compatibility of hook replacement on spoons. I look at it from a little different angle after many years of using the Mustad SS singles instead of standard trebles. Unless you go way outside the box say with a 5/0 hook on a 2 inch spoon my trolling speeds are constantly changing due to my motor cycling up and down periodically as well as my own manual speed adjustments which often are nearly continuous. This means that the speed of the lure is never long at the original speed or action I first tested and/or tuned it at so there is a very wide range of speeds experienced as well as things like wind and current interactions, I try to run compatible lures (as Tim mentioned) within a broad range but I accept the fact that there will be intermittent times when any one of the spoons may be out of the optimal speed and action range - but sometimes this is what triggers fish to bite also....when the lure looks "odd" or "vulnerable" in the water and is not "synchronized" with the others and this would apply whether singles or trebles are on the spoon. Just a different way of viewing the issue....

Tg8 I know exactly what you mean....and....ANYONE who thinks they have fishing all figured out all season long is delusional

Lively 1 -There you have it....great advice from some of the top jiggers around. If you follow that advice you'll hit the goldmine at some point in the near future. It once again points up and underscores the great value of this website...it would take (and did) folks years to figure this stuff out but everyone here is given that experience freely and generously

Like Tim I recommended Furuno yet I don't have one have a Lowrance....guess we have our reasons

Pap here is what my setup looks like....you can see how far down the kicker shaft goes and it is also out quite aways from the transom

Worth a try Pap it works fine on mine anyway.

A little tip when using these hooks as replacements - Make sure you compress the eyelet completely with pliers when you put it on the split ring otherwise it can hang upon your line or possibly come off if the opening is left large enough.

Get rid of the Stren I stopped using it years ago for the very same reason you mentioned it has lousy breaking and knot strength and the line deteriorates rapidly in the sunlight. Use 30 lb Big Game mono for a main line helps with fleas (unless they are real bad) for main line and a 20 lb Seaguar fluoro leader and you'll be in business. In Spring for brown action in close switch to a 10 or 12 lb fluoro leader. As far as the lb test issue we used 12 lb Hombre (the forerunner of Big Game and used in salt water) on Lake O for many years before the fleas showed up without breakage. If your drag is set properly and is in good condition (many aren't) you shouldn't be having line breaks if the line is good.

Thanks John and Ralph. It is kind of fun having them grab something you make so these are the only flies I use now. They are a little heavier with bigger heads than commercial fresh water flies and that is on purpose to slow things down a bit in the water because I noticed in videos of trout and salmon chasing flies behind flashers and Spinneys that even though the fish are fast swimmers they often seem to have some difficulty with lateral movement in catching the flies. John unfortunately I have no idea where to find green hooks. These red ones seem pretty sharp as I have stuck myself a couple times tying The Lake O ones are a little bigger yet As far as the pros and cons of using red hooks I guess the jury is still out. The whole color thing relating to fish is really a "mess" scientifically anyway. Much of what is in the literature is based on HUMAN vision and yet the eye structure of fish is quite different and how the heck are the fish going to report what THEY see anyway I pretty much use whatever I have on hand as far as trebles and I have a bunch of the reds so I use them...the hardness of the hooks is as important as the sharpness too. Mustad triple X's are actually the strongest and very sharp.

If you look at what the "big boys"use on the ocean it is mainly Furuno units (the high end ones especially) They are pricey but they are good and dependable. If you couple one with an Airmar transducer (exact one dependent on which unit and type of boat application you should be a "happy camper"

I've used the red ones on my home made flies and they work fine

On the Finger lakes I use 10 lb Power Pro braid with an 8 lb fluoro leader and jigs from 3/4 oz to 1.5 oz mostly but I do occasionally use some 2 oz. or more

I should also mention that for the past ten years or so I haven't even needed the EZ Steer as I have a long shaft trolling motor (25 inch shaft) which approximates my 135 Opti Max when in lowered position. All I do is point the small motor ever so slightly toward the big motor and steer with the big one (hydraulic steering) This works for most situations other than high wind or roughness and then I just use the big motor trolling into the wind (seldom need to use) and the small one with the wind.

As with most things you do need to experiment but for lakers I've had the best success doing what you first described "reeling up". It also may depend on what type of jig or spoon etc. you are using. Often letting it drop toward or to the bottom and with heavier jigs I let it free fall to the bottom and then hit hopefully stirring up things when it hits resembling some sort of commotion down there that may attract their attention. Something you didn't mention though is if you are using a fish finder (very important) On mine I can see the jig going down toward the fish and then them going after it and much like jigging in ice fishing when you see them "interested" on the flasher you mess with them to try to get them to hit and it may take some doing sometimes and their responses often tell you whether you need to try a different jig or setup. Much of the time the fish seem to want something a little "above" them if suspended. Hopefully some of the guys that are "expert jiggers" on here will offer their opinions like Pete Collin, Guff, Hermit. andTg8 and others.