Sk8man

Yeah I guess we do really get into it don't we? What I found a long time ago is that the original Sutton trebles will bend when a good sized fish clamps down on them (or maybe when trying to"horse" them a bit ) and I lost some fish because of it (hooks were bent when I reeled in). I changed over and it immediately solved the problem...very few fish lost over the years and nearly always a very solid hook up without physically setting the hook etc. I have had solid trebles taken off other lures too and I use them to tie my home made trolling flies. I prefer hardened singles on all spoons. The hardened trebles don't have the bending problem but I am convinced that when they are in the boney structure of the fishes mouth the individual hooks may work against each other leading to greater loss of fish. I know others may look at it differently but that is my take on it. The trebles on the trolling flies are often in the fishes throat and are usually being trolled slower so I think the problem is reduced in that instance. Another huge reason for using singles is that I release most of the trout I catch - especially big ones and the singles are much easier to do this with and they are much friendlier in the net with kings. Yes the Siwash hooks will close and stay closed with pliers just make sure you close the curl as fully as possible so it isn't open much if at all to avoid it catcing on other lines etc.

Jack - The trebles that came stock with the Sutton's sucked...they are easily bendable I changed over (replaced) hundreds to single1/0, 2/0 and3/0 single stainless steel triple X or 5x (hardened) Mustad Siwash Salmon hooks early on and still continue to do so with nearly all my spoons. Saved the solid rings on them and cut the trebles with wire cutters and tossed them in the trash inside boxes. Regarding the flashers or Spin Docs anything green, monkey puke, or Wonderbread will do the trick in the Fingers.....Lake O there are many additional ones that work.

I've had a Vexilar Fl-20 Ultrapak for a few years now and although "pricey" they stand up better than any other unit on the market (5 years still on same battery - heavy use, same transducer never even a minor problem of any sort with the unit. The zoom is incredible (6 ft and 12 ft from bottom so most suspended fish marked very well...I watch them coming for the jig and then mess with them). Mine has a dual transducer (9 and 19 degree) but they also now have a tri ducer but basically if you get the basic 12 degree transducer it is all you need. It picks up my smallest jigs clearly and separates targets at 1/2 inch apart. My son has a Hummingbird that he bought at the same time (for less money admittedly) but he has had it into the factory twice for problems and is now on his third battery and second transducer so in total he has paid about the same amount for it with fewer features. The zoom function is by far the most valuable function on the flasher and it outclasses all my other previous flashers going back to 1970 or so put together. I have bit..ed for a while about it not having a digital readout but this year they came out with an add on for all Vexilar flashers for about $50 that seems to work very well (in testing from a dock anyway) so now I'm a perfectly happy camper My suggestion is if money ois tight...save up and get one with a zoom and you'll bemuch happier in the long run.

Earl's little pocket sized book was my "bible" for many years and I believe without doubt the best book ever written on Finger Lakes fishing. Another good book on Finger lakes fishing was written and edited by my good friend (now departed) and fishing buddy sports writer Scott Sampson ("Good Fishing in the Finger Lakes Region of Western New York"published by Sanders Fishing Guides 2003). Those flies ahead of the spoon serve basically the same "attractor" function as "teasers" or "twinkies" do with cutbait or"meat rigs" but they are primarily used for rainbows and landlocks on the Fingers. I have caught nice rainbows in June/July with them in the old days ahead of flutter spoons (Sutton's "Usually 44's and 22's) on both top lines with weight and leadcore. I found that placing them about 12 inches worked better because it didn't seem to interfere with the spoon action as much. I NEVER caught a fish on the fly itself.....only the spoon.

Just as an aside I saw recently that the government is getting out of the nautical chart publishing business. They are not going to be printing nautical charts for navigation any longer. Could be interesting if in the future all the satellites are blocked by some natural disaster and there are no physical maps available.

Kevin has made some great technical points. I too care about fish in general and have fished for walleyes on the Finger Lakes for many years as well as the trout and salmon and when Seneca Lake was midstream in it's stocking and lamprey problems in the 1970's though early eighties I heavily fished Owasco for trout and it was a great fishery with nice fat trout. I guess my comments were geared more to the physical suitability characteristics of the habitat itself for an ongoing naturally sustaIned walleye fishery rather than the competitive aspects of the species and predation factors. It is encouraging to hear that the rainbow smelt are alive and well there now because they appear to be nearly extinct on Canandaigua Lake, Seneca, and Cayuga. It is too bad the DEC can't stock a bunch of Cisco back in the lake as they are a far better food source whether walleyes or trout are the predators. I think that the invasive introduction of the Zebra mussels and Quagga mussels (and preference for deeper water penetration) have been more of a factor in the deterioration of the fishery than folks realize. The phytoplankton and zooplankton (that baitfish and smaller fish feed on) have been strained out of the water to very high levels. I have noticed a huge difference in each of the Finger Lakes over the past ten plus years especially in terms of the lack of presence of minnows, small fish like perch, sunfish, bluegills, and immature bass in the shallow periphery of the lakes. In short it would appear that shallow water spawners and feeders are "screwed". Years ago they were all over the place near docks, along shorelines and quite visible populations of them. Currently most of the lakes I fish are nearly devoid of populations of small fish but everything is covered by the Zebras and the Quaggas extend the range out to the greater depths.

Good info flyrod2 thanks. I sure hope things work out it can be (and was) a wonderful fishery and lake.

If my memory serves me correctly there were walleyes in Owasco at one time and they didn't fare well at all. One serious look at a map of the lake should answer the question.....especially the west side.... steep rocky sides with vertical drop off near shore little if any submerged vegetation, not much holding structure, few if any bays, lack of decent spawning habitat....great for migratiing rainbows and ranging browns but crappy for walleyes.The only potentially viable grass beds of note are at the very ends of the lake with little else between them to hold walleyes. I know that probably nobody will like my suggestion of no stream trout fishing for 3 consecutive years following a robust stocking effort followed by a DEC biologist evaluation for further adjustments and hopefully resumption of stream fishing....could take more like 5 years to really do what is necessary. The main thrust at this would be aimed at keeping yahoos out of the streams that trample the redds and it would make enforcement of night poaching a little more effective too.

Holy crap! Geez.....I'm feeling lucky today only a few inches of light stuff here in Canandaigua....man...you got hammered Tim! Guess we know how you'll be spending your time for awhile Les

Well even if not...you didn't exactly spend your life savings on them

I'll take the dollar bills if you pay shipping

Sorry about that Steelie

Hard to believe that someone left the fire tigers