Sk8man

I forgot to add that I've had the same experience as ERAbbit in the shallows in the Spring and probably it reflects the fact that the larger sawbellies are in there spawning in large numbers and thus the larger spoons match them pretty well.

Last two responses were right on target. Bigger is NOT ALWAYS better :>) Sutton 88's (hammered silver or hammered silver and brass work best but on rigs generate a lot of drag (OK singly on riggers and behind leadcore but not well on small dipseys) but I've had real good luck over the years with Large sized Evil Eyes especially the black/silver lightning and Blue silver lightning ones but mostly out very deep and in the Spring (pulling thermocline rigs mostly). Again, throughout the season you want to try to match the size of the sawbellies available. Smaller is better as the season rolls on. Most of the time the "Lake Ontario" big stuff doesn't work real well (or consistently) on Seneca. Sutton #71's used to work well for me when there was a viable smelt population on Seneca but that is no longer the case. If you are after Lakers on Seneca Northern Kings and Pirate spoons (when you can find them) work well on them as well as the bigger browns. With rainbows and landlocks smaller is almost always "better".

I forgot here are the ones we kept.

The pressure is on ya Kev :>) When I was out yesterday with my buddy Mike (all day) on Canandaigua we started out right in front of the pumphouse in 60 ft. I ran two downriggers with sliders two small dipseys off the outriggers and a leadcore run back 310 ft. Bottomline: Green was the color of choice especially darkish lime green on small 2-3 inch spoons, and in the case of the downriggers not one fish came from the sliders (unusual). I ran the downriggers about 75 ft back usually. Two fish came off the dipsey rigs one on a J-5 rapala and one on a very small purpleish stinger. I think the leadcore had one small rainbow on small spoon. We ran at about 2.3 to 3.4 most were on the turns. Of interest is that ALL fish (12) came near bait balls both suspended and bottom -oriented ones from 84 ft- 150 ft of depth Fish breakdown as follows: 10 rainbows varying from bare miniumu size to about 5 pounds,. one small brown, and a laker a couple pounds. We threw all back but ended up keeping two rainbows about 4-5 pounds that didn't make it (as well as 2 others as big). We had a couple additional fish started - one off leadcore and another on dipsey that got off. Most of the bait was toward the east side on the way to the middle (esp the 100ft plus stuff) We went as far south as the point south of LeTorneau Camp on est side and Wegman's place on west side and then went back north to find the bait again and picked up a couple between German Bros and Pumphouse but out in middle where bait was. Nothin much at all marked on WEST side. How's that for specifics FLXTroutman? :>) (I think the fish are clustered more toward thenorth end than usual for this time of year (couple weeks or so ahead of schedule) The wind here today may have changed around the whole picture by tomorrow though :>).

I perhaps should have mentioned that I've been fishing the Finger lakes for over 60 years and trolling for over 50 of them. I've released thousands of fish comprising many species over that time. I've talked with many fisheries biologists from DEC and SUNY Brockport experts as well and each has said that trout should be handled MINIMALLY and ideally NOT AT ALL and it is especially mportant staying away from the gill areas if they are handled in any way. For one thing when they are handled the scales rub off and make them vulnerable to disease. I have found over time and after releasing trout that I am more successful releasing them in the way I described and no matter HOW it is done there is some mortality which is my main previous point. Only allowing one rainbow to be kept does not allow any leeway in the catch and release strategy....it is more intended to keep folks from taking and keeping 5 rainbows and hanging on to them regardless of size (as long as legal) or with repect to spawning potential etc. Three rainbows would have been more practical (as in Landlocks) The Catherine's situatiion is complicated....it could also relate to the present stream chemistry, bottom condition from previous high water, and environmantal factors, perhaps even causing more spawning in other less well known and less densely inhabited streams such as the ones on the eastern shore of Seneca and maybe even the Keuka Outlet on the west. There are many streams on Seneca that people don't significantly fish for trout (or at all in some cases) such as the Castle Creek which even runs through downtown Geneva and has historically held some decent rainbow population but few holding areas to fish them from.

I fished Canandaigua yesterday with a buddy who is also a very experienced fisherman (gives seminars of fly fishing and flytying etc.) We went 12 for 14 with 10 rainbows 1 brown (barely legal one) and a laker a couple of pounds. We attempted to release all of the fish including a couple 4-5 pound rainbows. Most were from the downriggers, and caught within the first 40-50 fft. of the water column over 100 plus depths. The problem was that of the fish released we had to keep the first two that didn't make it and then we had additional beautiful rainbow trout that likewise didn't make it despite not handling the fish in any way (released by using needle nose pliers to grab the single hook and gently lowering them to the water). Here is what I think may be the problem: LACTIC ACID buildup build up in the fish from fighting so hard before being released. This is a known problem among the salmonid species such as chinook and cohos and rainbows are known to be relatively "fragile" in terms of release even from shallow water of streams and lakes, while the problem of "heartier" lake trout seems to come from mainly from coming up from the depths too rapidly. Over the past few weeks nearly all of my catch has been rainbows (most released except the belly-ups). Earlier this summer we were getting some very good rainbows on Seneca as well including one my buddy got over 10 pounds that was released (and went belly up). The purported "shortage" of rainbows in the Finger Lakes I believe is a MYTH and this new regulation is in my view "misguided" and wastful since you have to leave fish that don't make it. When you fish specifically for rainbows and avoid "deeper setups" and "general techniques" where you get unintended lakers it is apparent that the rainbows are there and in numbers. I know there will be other opinions here (and from other lakes not mentioned) and I welcome them.

Les

Earlier I wrote a bunch of detailed suggestions etc. but even though I was logged in it disappeared so I'll shorten this up with some BASIC suggestions to consider (in addition to the great info already mentioned by others)

A lot of us have been at it (trolling etc.) for many years ....over 50 for me. We get carried away with our passion for the newest techniques and equipment and as mentioned buy all sorts of stuff (some of which we don't admit to getting "burned" on :>)

"Basics" go a long way in trolling; especially when on a small budget. some suggestions:

KNOW the lakes you intend to fish....get basic maps (e.g. Sportsman's Connection Western New York Fishing Map Guide can be found inWalmart and other stores for $20 or so).

Get a basic depth finder to help you study the lake. Get to know it as well as your wife or girlfriend :>) Big screen color depth finders are nice to look at.....but they are expensive, not necessary, and you can spend all your time mesing with nested menus and looking at the screens instead of actually trying different strategies, effectively reacting to the behavior of the fish, and paying close attention to details which make all the difference in your success rate (no matter which species you are after).

Learn how to TROLL before getting too much into the finer points of specific equipment and techniques. You need to learn the right trolling speeds for YOUR BOAT for the species you are after as well as the lures you use. Many lures have specific speed ranges or values that make all the difference in results. Try them out along side your boat to get an idea how they look BEFORE dropping them down. Troll in PATTERNS (S curves, diagonals, switch speeds etc. learn to detect which way the current is running ifthere is one...try to stay against it or perpendicular to it)

To start with you may only need BASIC equipment that you may already have while you are initially learning. For example, during the Sp[ring and Fall the rainbows and browns are often found in shallower water or suspended within the top half of the water while the lakers can be found 90ft-200 ft. on bottom in late Fall so you need specialized equipment to get to them. For Canadice and Hemlock in the Spring and Fall you could get away with basic spinning rods with 10 or 12 lb test wih inline weight attached a few feet ahead of the lure or stickbait run about 100-200 ft behind the boat (the slower you troll the deeper thebait will go (up to a point). You could also get away with small dipsys with small flutter spoons off medium to heavy spinning rods.

Before you consider dipsey setups or leadcore take the time to check out your boat and the rod holder setup both those options produce substantial drag on the line, rods and holders. Make sure you have holders that permit various angles, are firmly anchored in the gunnels or transom and test them out and test them out beforehand to make sure of clearances etc.

Once you get a handle on these basics move up to the stuff you can decide what (and if) you need to get down to the preferred depth ranges duringthe summer and late Spring months.

Best of luck with your upcoming adventures !

Les

I'm not a forensics expert but there are certainly some questinable aspects to the photo when it is expanded larger. First is the fact that the sky in the background is very uniform blue and looks a little saturated in color, second is that the shadowing on the guys shirt doesn't exactly match up with the fish in its foreground, third is that the area between the fishs gill between the guy and fish appears white and should be the blue sky, fourth is the white halo around the tops of the trees in the background which usually comes from the sky being inserted into the pic without removing the actual background, and fifth is that part of the shadow near the guys pants is colored BLUE on the boat in the background and it should not show color as a shadow.

Sk8

I guess the "leaf peepers" have nothing on us.....we can do it right (while enjoying what we do instead of inside some bus :>) Good results with the fishing and it doesn't get any better than fishing with your own kid.... I've been doing it with my son since age 2 and he's 34 now and still my fishing partner (even after being skunked a few times over the years :>).

Les

Good one Ray :>) Hope you enjoy the Exlax I fed him before giving him to you :>)

I went by myself this morning about 8:30 and fished until about 4 PM. The foliage colors are gorgeous and I'd sayabout 80 percent right now. I started out in about 60 ft near the pump house and trolled the west side to German Bros. then cut ascross to Thendara and the east side. Trolled from 60 ft of water to 220 ft. on both shores and the middle and to make a long story shorter...I went 7 for 7 - all rainbows. Biggest about 6 pounds smallest about 14 inches. All except a 5 pounder released unharmed.... the other went belly upand I had to bring in all my gear to go back for him. 2 Fish came off small dipseys with #22 and #44 Sutton spoons out 200 ft. the others came off the downriggers 60-65 ft. again with 44 Suttons, Clearwaters and Luhr Jensen spoons about -100 ft. back over various depths from 85-202 ft. of water and two came on sliders about7 ft long. Silver and silver and brass was the ticket today. Absolutely nothing on the leadcore for three hours so I abandoned it and ran the dipseys instead. Didn't mark a whole lot of fish but saw some lakers on bottom from 90 ft to 200ft. Saw HUGE pods of bait on east side in AM in about 85-110 ft of water the biggest one was 75 ft. high of solid bait. Very little marked on west side of lake (fish or bait). When I got back into the launch ramp at north end I thought I'd do a good deed and give the rainbow to a couple guys in a small aluminum boat that was just getting ready to be pulled out.....I did so ...but what a mistake! They turned out to be the most inconsiderate people I've seen in a long time. After I gave them the fish they parked right in the middle of the launch ramp and for about 20 minutes blocked everyone (including me) coming in or going out (straddled the lanes with boat and trailer/truck) and one guy had to circle for a long while in the channel waiting to get in while they buttoned up their boat and BS'd the whole time. There were flames coming out of the guy's butt when he finally came in and he had a few choice words as well. I had to angle in from another lane because they located in mine....great folks. Thankfully they are the exception rather than the rule....Regardless it was a beautiful day to be out there. I hope the Fall weather continues to be fishable through the month as we have the lake pretty much to ourselves now (i.e fishermen)

Sk8

Over the years I have been on the lake three times when they had hydro races and I can tell you it is no fun for fishermen. I launched at Sampson thinking I might avoid the whole thing and the noise and "vibrations" in the water are unreal. The fish totally turned off despite the distance from the boats.... the noise is VERY loud even miles away....it is not even worth going out...

Sk8man

Over the years I have been on the lake three times when they had hydro races and I can tell you it is no fun for fishermen. I launched at Sampson thinking I might avoid the whole thing and the noise and "vibrations" in the water are unreal. The fish totally turned off despite the distance from the boats.... the noise is VERY loud even miles away....it is not even worth going out...

Sk8man

You'll never be sorry you took the time to do it right.....I introduced my son to Seneca at 2 years and he is now 33 and we have fished the entire time together... trout/salmon derbys, ice fishing, bullheads, crappies and all the boat stuff and he is now even more hard core than me (if thats possible). Sk8man

I used to have them attach to the transom my 13 ft Boston whaler in the winter on Seneca Lake,,,,,,huge ones. The only reason I knew they were there is that they were causing a disruption on my depthfinder....man was I surprised when I saw what was causing the commotion! :>)

We fishermen are a bunch of "oddballs"....eccentric as hell and each loving our own eccentricities :>) I've fished the Finger Lakes and surrounding streams for 63 years of my 67 years on this planet. Some of my earlier years were spent with some of the most knowledgable fishermen in the area (at the time anyway)...some of whom wrote articles and books on the subject (e.g. Scott Sampson). Some of them openly shared "secrets" while others kept their knowledge to themselves. The most extreme was a father and son I knew very well that kept their spots from each other as well as their techniques... even during the Seneca Lake Trout Derby they wouldn't divulve info to each other....unreal! Most fishermen are competitive to some degree but also generous and concerned about keeping the sport of fishing "alive". The best way to do this is to try to generate interest and participation on a large scale (e.g. such as encouraging others to buy licenses, having fishing derbies, opening up access, taking novices out to experience to joys and tribulations of fishing for the first time etc., and hopefully the excitement of catching a fightng fish). Over the years I've caught thousands of fish of all sizes and species from boats, streams the ice, ponds and you name it.. but I still remember with total clarity my first fish which I caught in the Yacht Club bay on Seneca Lake with my now departed dad ....a 12 inch smallmouth bass. The point here is that it is the SHARING of experience of fishing that is the really important part of the sport. The LOU site and others like it are very important avenues of sharing for those participating, those wishing to participate. folks that want to participate more fully, and probably others that are unable to participate, but can share the joy in the virtual world through words and photos(e.g. those confined by various disabilities etc.). I applaude all of you who openly share information with your fellow fishermen and encourage those folks who don't do so to entertain the thought that like money and possessions "You can't take it with you". Good luck to all my fellow fishermen out there and may LOU live on forever :>)

I've had real good success realeasing fish for over 40 years and all I do is use needle nose pliers and grab the stainless single steel hooks by the shank turning it upside down (hook pointed downward) while in the fishes mouth and shake them off carefully. Never have to touch them or handle them in any way and that is critical for rainbows and steelies especially. Deep lakers have to be handles a bit differently coming up from the depths though.... I often puncture the air bladder slightly with the point of my filet knife and slowly return them to the water. Fish biologists have indicated that the bladders repair themselves quickly (tiny hole) with mucus and then reheal.

Hey Kev....way to go! Sorry to hear about Bretts downrigger. My last time out on Canandaigua I contributed a $300 camera,bag, and extra chips at the launch ramp somehow (possbly taken from the boat while I got my vehicle/trailer as I was alone)..looked later but nobody turned iit in etc. Back in my parents day it would have been turned in for sure but nowadays many folks are opportunists and haven't been brought up with the same ethics.

Too bad the timing wasn't there for that fish at derby time Kev :>) Maybe next year though....kinda like deer hunting I guess ...you see them all over until opening day then they disappear :>)

Hope to catch you folks at one of the launch ramps soon.

Les

Good going Kev. Hope to get up there soon. (Les)

Whats the deal on the Red Cross Derby? This is the first I've heard of it.....unless it is perhaps held when in previous years I've been on vacation at the Cape in July...

Good going to anyone who caught any decent fish during the derby (trolling at least :>) I have fished Seneca for over 50 years and this was the toughest fishing other than during the 1970's when the lampreys were very active and it was usually 3 or 4 hours between fish. My son and I tried about every technique other than pulling copper and still fishing and only came up with 3 fish during the derby. We changed out over 200 lures all sizes, small and large dipseys, lead core, downriggers, top lines on outriggers, dodgers, spin doctors, etc. I ran three rigs (one with jug way behind the boat) in every depth possible and only marked a very ocassional fish (all between 24 and 48 feet down over a variety of depths)and a few small pods of bait during the two days of fishing (we opted to stay home the third day because of a broken toe on my son the second day). We fished 12 hours each day too. In short to sum things up for us "the derby sucked ". On a more positive note it was great to be "hard at work" fishing with my best fishing partner....my kid. Best of luck to all you guys in the upcoming weeks :>)

If you are set on fishing Canandaigua I would suggest trying the south end on the east side and head northwest on an angle. Start from the white rock area on the east iideand go toward Bristol Harbor condos pulling rigs. Try one rig real deep and the other running up towards the top until you hit something. Keep adjusting your rigs up and down a little along the way. Try SMALL sutton lures on at least one of the rigs. Mix them on the other. Keep varying your trolling speed from 1.9 to 2.7 or 2.8. When you reach the Notre dame retreat house (can see cross on it from lake) turn around and head back toward south east and hgead for the Christian camp on the east side (just south of Pelican Point Marina). This should put you into fish at some point. Canandaigua Lake is somewhat tougher to fish ion the early spring and late Fall for some reason. This has been true for me for over 40 years and I live here :>) Te alternative: fish Seneca instead it is much more active right now.

Black releases are definitely the way to go Ive been using them for over 30 years on downriggers and outriggers and I've tried just about everything else experimenting and nothing touches them especially for the money.

Sorry about the double posting fellas :>)

Good going Kev. I started taking my son Mark with me at age 2 1/2 both in the boat and ice fishing (shorter times :>) and he and are are still fishing partners. I tried with my daughters and everything was fine until Middle School when they discovered boys :>)

Good luck to you and your dad in the upcoming Derby. Hope to see you out there. Les