Capt Vince Pierleoni

This is so very important. It doesn't matter where you fit in NY fisheries. They decimate native trout streams, eradicate Largemouths from lily pad patches, rob Smallmouths from rivers and rocky reefs and most certainly pilfer stocking sites (after all the work DEC does raising them and volunteers do penning them).

I think there was good reproduction last year as well. Now whether they can be "measured" or found, thats another matter. Lots of observations of alewives that did not go deep this year, East and West. I think many will already be "up and in" this Spring when it's possible to conduct the bottom trawls.

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I agree. I love upstate and Western NY. I just hate the direction the state government is going.

Yeah I like your idea better. HE can leave.

Lets all get together and move Lake Ontario. What a fiasco our state government is.

Great post. If we sleep on any of this we are going to pay the consequences. I know far too many people that fail to vote saying that it's hopeless in NY.

Good luck Rob!

Merry Christmas Hank! Merry Christmas to all!

Brian I feel strongly there will be a giant hatch from last Summers YOY. Now whether surveys find them thats another story. Just like the naturalized King and Coho Salmon, one of the greatest success stories in freshwater fishing history, they are continually adapting. It's crazy how many Alewives have been shallow in bays even with the onset of very cold water and even icing. Years ago we were told by managers that anything colder than 39 degrees was lethal to Pacific Salmon, yet the naturalized fishery in Georgian bay gives up Kings through the ice and they catch them in open water in March there. The biggest concern I have is the micro managing we are seeing these days. I've seen brutal winters on Lake O before, and certainly have seen Spring Salmon decades ago that looked like they had a rough winter. It cycles back. We are certainly seeing SOME years with huge natural hatches, so far it's looking like about every 3-5 yrs. Stocking is a tool that can be dialed into areas that do not enjoy natural RETURNS--which is a huge historical aspect to Pacific Salmon planting. Unfortunately the cuts will only hurt the areas that are already suffering from little staging. With the latest round of cuts I have been blasted with calls and texts. Those that know me know that I sit on every board/panel there is. I was against each and every cut, and try as I did, I felt like my position and concerns fell on deaf ears. Sure, SOME years we have a big hatch, contributing lake wide when they are immature. Ultimately returning to their home areas as early as late July, leaving some areas much more devoid of returns. I love Lake O as much as anyone and would never want anything to hurt the fishery. I feel very strongly in this little surface area Great Lake that if surplus Kings occur they quickly get caught by todays intense, intelligent Salmon fishing pressure. The targeting of Pacific Salmon lakewide 7 months of the year on both sides of the pond is a relatively new occurrence. Less than 20 years ago fleets targeted trout more routinely and waited until "Salmon Season" to rig up for them. I do not agree with the "size at age" findings, and no one I know that fishes most days of the season has seen a drastic decline in Salmon size at each age--at least out in the open lake. Any shortage of super-out sized Salmon is not just from a greater density of Salmon in the population, but as was mentioned earlier is part of the species adapting to Lake Ontario. On top of that, the increased angling pressure crops a portion of the population before they reach their ultimate size potential. Only drastically decreased angling effort(what no one wants to see, but what led to the small population of big fish in Michigan that got caught) will make much of a difference in a handful of outsized Salmon being caught. My inquiries with serious anglers on Lake Michigan indicated that yes, there was a nice slug of bigger fish around mostly late Spring, but most angler effort still was directed towards Lake Trout. I don't think most people know how thinned out the Salmon population would have to become, and how much effort would have to decline to produce a group of rare extra large specimens. "The new normal" may not have been sustainable but to try to alter the population enough to create a big enough spike in size would certainly leave alot of anglers with dry coolers. The concept that Lake Ontario Alewives can be permanently driven to extinction is utterly out of line. Any "mistakes" made by implementing a less conservative approach to the Salmon population are 100% reversible. A couple other thoughts with all the stuff I see swirling around. If cormorant control was implemented, and/or stocking practices were used that protected Trout and Salmon from their predation, MANY more Steelhead would be saved than any knee jerk Lake limit that is being slapped on the Lake fishermen. Most avid lake anglers are sad that the proposed limit will actually be more detrimental to that species--doing just the opposite what the proposal hoped to do. That goes for any stocked Salmon and Trout, it makes little sense to just feed the birds after the time and expense of raising them. Lastly, I know we are in the middle of a "study", but its well documented in fishery management that Coho must be stocked as holdover Spring fish . The vast majority of NYs Coho are stocked in the fall and end up eaten by birds, trout, walleye, or caught repeatedly by stream fisherman as tiny minnow sized fish. If all our Coho were Spring stocked it would be an explosive contributor. In closing, it was never my position that we didn't experience a couple of weak year classes of Alewives, only that this has happened several times before in the last 40 yrs since anyone paid attention to it. Sure the total alewife number was reduced but it was just less of an excess. Good things happen to the alewife population when it is controlled, and certainly the fans of Perch and Walleye hatches are rewarded-as alewives are a direct predator of those hatches. The way the Chinook Salmon were distributed across the lake the last couple of Springs/early Summers is also an indicator that ample food was present East to West. If the DECs findings are accurate, 2019 provided a great natural class of Chinook so 2021 should see lots of age 2s sizzling around the lake. Some will mature and the rest will be large adults in 2022. Merry Christmas to everyone.

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Congrats Dan, well done. I'm curious did you ever find out what made that noise and remedy it?

I don't think you will see it. Lake Trout stocking will be emphasized where they are seeing natural reproduction--even if it is very poor. The Lake Trout restoration effort really has little to do with Sport fishing opportunity, they are said to have "intrinsic value". Brian, don't hold your breath waiting to be asked what you think anytime soon. Truth be told, Lake Trout, Walleye, and Cormorants are the obstacles to stocked Salmonoids making it their first year. Their predation on the stockies is well documented. BTW, the Feds stock the Lake Trout.

Sadly we are all encountering more and more of this. What does it bring about? More guys wanting to buy their own land and post it up tight--or leasing it for exclusive rights. These are merely temporary respites as land becomes harder andharder to get on. It leads to yet even more of these violations, and ultimately we get weaker as good sportsmen fall by the wayside. I have a friend who has hunted NY for 40 years. He has pretty much given up Deer hunting in NY because of constant conflicts with disrespectful deer "hunters". He says "Im damn tired of arm wrestling for Deer." Like was said, just like the trib nightmare, violators get a slap on the wrist so the vicious circle continues. I'm so sorry for guys like Rob who put so much into their spots and their seasons to have it ruined by a criminal.

You forgot the part about you driving for 2 days to get to the Whitetail mecca of Kansas--so you could tag out in 10 minutes while walking in for your first sit. Crazy? For sure.

Thank you again. The fact that he is still beaming really puts it all in perspective.

Justin you will probably see us again. Us not coming that way for a few years was more the distance of travel and Mark had some significant health issues due to his condition. Last fall he was finally good to go again. As you saw, EVERYTHING has to be thought out and preplanned--especially on a road trip with a few nites stay. Sleeping accommodations, bathroom access and of course the in and out of the rugged country. We both enjoyed hunting with you and appreciated your efforts. We just hit a merciless hot spell and lots of standing corn. Hope you had a great season with the Tigers and your hunting has been going well. Happy Thanksgiving.