Capt Vince Pierleoni

Happy Birthday Bob, Let us know what goodies you got for your boat.

Well Howie, I will give this a try with hopefully, a fair general picture. First off, it is impossible to target Spring Kings from Olcott consistently without going to the "bar" at least some of the time. The very common Spring-time east winds insure that. If it blows hard enough, long enough from the east, whatever is "set up" will be blown apart and "go cold". If we are fortunate to have several days of west wind, Kings and Cohos will be near Olcott. What is impossible to forecast now, is what depths they will hold in. I have gone out in late April and hooked King after king in less than 20' of water, but that is usually where you will find the Cohos. The Spring Kings will usually be in 40 to 200' of water, depending on how advanced the Spring is. What most of us consider Spring begins to transition in early June, with rapidly warming water and dispersing bait and fish.

Thanks Tom, for some of that behind the scenes stuff. As for that first derby being won by a 5lber(a Coho, I believe), that was because the bigger ones were cracking everyone off!!!! I know we fished it from piers with 8lb "Royal Bonnyl" line, made by Garcia! Great casting line but a stiff breeze broke it. It was a Coho shoot-out for the most part, because everyone was casting from piers or trolling flat lines in less than 10' of water. I don't think anyone here is asking to quit the restoration effort of Lake trout. For one thing, the Brownies are going to need all the help they can get trying to control goby numbers. The Lakers here in the Spring gorge on them almost exclusively. Restoring Lakers is noble indeed, but the Kings controlling the Alewives make natural hatches of Lake trout possible. What I do think needs a second(or third) look, is any money or effort spent on restoring Eels. People have to understand that there are more than a few anglers around the lake that know the "deal". Hard to deal with the fact that under no circumstances could we plant a few more Chinooks the season after the shortfall, even though we had a surplus egg take. Wouldn't it have made sense to bolster that weak year class both in reality and perception-wise with some additional low percentage fingerlings? Doesn't it make you wonder when the skills of the average Salmon angler get better every year, and that is never taken in to account? They are now under seige, April---Oct, on both the North and South shores. With more and more contests in both countries popping up, increasing effort(which is a good thing) how can the same number be appropriate year after year?

Salmon Boy, there are so many factors in what areas give up derby winning fish. The Oswego area is great, but during the fall derby there are an INCREDIBLE amount of boats fishing out of every harbor, bay, creek, and launch ramp. The reasons are there are alot of fish returning there, and the area caters to fishermen. The sheer amount of effort in an area is going to "turn stones over" and produce some big fish. In addition to that, the Oswego area provides good structure and quick access to deep water, just like our beloved Olcott/Wilson area. Both areas produce lots of derby winners, spring and fall. As a Rochester native who dove head-first into the charter business, I chose the western basin. I did not do this until I fished the entire southshore first. I chose Oak Orchard first, and then my current home port, Olcott in 1999. I chose these areas because they had good spring Salmon fishing, which I love, and hold trout and Salmon consistently through-out the season. One of the benefits of fishing all the Pro-Ams on the lake is seeing and fishing all the other areas. Oswego has grown on me, and would be my second choice. Great fishing port. The salmon fishing can be phenomenal, and the Brown trout fishing is consistent.

What I want to know is, who sets policy? I think it is apparent that we are fighting the agendas of all the mentioned governing bodies. Nice try, perhaps a new and challenging undertaking for these guys. Salmon are old news. Someone else got the atta-boys and recognition. What they don't want to acknowledge is PACIFIC SALMON MADE THEIR DREAMS POSSIBLE! Without bringing the alewife numbers down, native species would have no chance to be restored. We have had to deal with the damage that occured when the seaway was built, letting alewives and lamprey in. Do the users get a say now? I asked a fishery biologist where the big out-cry was coming from to restore Eels. He wasn't sure, just that they were "mandated". Lets face the fact that the Lakes have been forever altered. Any plans for the future must include Salmon, even if they were the brainchild of long since retired fishery managers. Some things that are never mentioned when stocking numbers come up:1) We know, especially since we have not hit target stocking numbers of Lake trout in several years, that Lamprey wounding/predation is up. Why haven't we stocked MORE Salmon to take pressure off the remaining Lake trout(sacred cow), and offset the population losses that lamprey predation has surely exacted on Salmon populations? 2) if fishermen are at all to be considered, and not just for their ever escalating dollars spent on licenses, why weren't more inexpensive fingerling Kings stocked to offset the shortfalls in Lake trout and more recently Brown trout target stocking numbers? 3) why isn't INCREASING the number of Salmon to be stocked ever a consideration even though we know there are more predators at stocking sites than ever before? Of course there are changes happening in the low end of the food-web. We just don't know to what extent the alewife surplus was to begin with. Years ago no one wanted to eat the Salmon, not due to contaminents but due to the "fatty" composition. Now that we are closer to having it right, the fillets are a better color and in high demand at all the tournaments. In some of our opinions, the Salmon are even stronger fighters. Those of us that have fished Salmon around the Lake and other Great Lakes, recognize that the behavior of the Kings in Lake Ontario is not that of under-nourished fish. They often spread out, and don't have to be "glued" to the school of bait they happen upon. Distribution inshore and offshore of Salmon populations is well represented in both cases. The sad truth is, if we agreed to any less Salmon stocked, we would lose them forever because the wishes of the anglers and stakeholders would not be taken into account. Keep your eyes on this. Our fishery is worth it.

Happy Birthday Jeremy.

Happy Birthday Tom. See you in a couple weeks.

Thanks Paul. This issue is very important to me, even if I didn't own and operate a charter business. Even though I have never lived more than 8 miles from Lake Ontario, between the ages of 4 and 14, we traveled AWAY from the lake to fish. When we visited my gandparents cottage near Wautoma shoals, I would spend hour after hour fishing off the dock, even though everyone said it wasn't worth it. I was too young to understand that my baited hook had no chance to entice one of the very few gamefish that were present amongst the millions of twirling alewives. Swimming was even more dismal, as you would have to wade through a 100yds of dead alewives rotting in the summer sun. Today, lucky people who live in that same Wautoma shoal area(like our friend Runnin' Rebel Jerry Felluca) can troll for trophy Salmon within sight of their homes, and cast from their breakwalls for big Brown trout. What a comeback!

Guys, unfortunately we will have to fight to protect Salmon populations in Lake Ontario for as long as we fish. Some of us have seen with our own eyes "inside" memos stating that it is a goal of Great Lakes fisheries managers to "reduce the dependency" of anglers on stocked fish. This is one of the reasons why we are seeing all the interest in natural reproduction of Salmon , as of late. It will be a convenient excuse to reduce stocking in the future, despite the fact that you cannot count on consecutive good hatches of wild fish in this system. Angler harassment, low water, temperature fluctuations are all unpredictable in the tribs. Most of the tribs have been forever altered with dams. Not to mention that predation by resident fish in downstream estuaries, and of course burgeoning bird populations, will take an extreme toll. Any natural complement to the population should be looked at as a bonus, never a partial replacement. It is so tiresome to always have to defend the "preponderance of pacific salmon" (this was an actual statement used by a former coldwater fisheries chief) , when they are the single biggest reason the Great Lakes are GREAT again. Not only have they brought about a tremendous shot-in-the arm to the upstates stagnant economy, they are the reason that any rebound in yellow perch and walleye fishing has occurred. Alewife predation on the eggs and hatch of perch and walleye is well documented. Lakeshore water front is beautiful again. Many of us remember the decaying stench and the "pop" underfoot of all the dead alewives. It is poorly promoted that the pacific salmon, although a stocked "exotic", is truly a savior of the Great Lakes and has improved the quality of life in the Great Lakes after man altered it by building the seaway. History books document that Lake Ontario was a top producer for its size, when the large commercial netting operations were here. Probably because it is downstream from the shallow/warm Lake Erie, it produced incredible amounts of cold water fish for the worlds consumption. As some of you have stated, the Lakes are all different, and cycle differently. The stakeholders around the lake have grown weary of the "doom and gloom" forecasts, almost as if there are many "rooting" for it. Of course it is possible the Lake will change in the future requiring adjustments to be made. Before that becomes necessary, there are two dramatic things that will give it away and be indicators. These MUST happen several years in a row: average size of 3yr old mature salmon will be significantly smaller.(taking data only at hatchery can be misleading as "fatness" can be drastically affected by amount of time Salmon have to wait in warm water. This burns up fat stores rapidly) The second dead giveaway would be sky-rocketing catch rates. Plain and simple, if they are starving they will hit more readily. This did in fact happen in Michigan. Reports of hooking 50 in a day came from there. They adjusted their stocking numbers(which were much greater than ours per acre anyway), and the size rebounded and so did the alewives. No lasting damage. While the alewives were suppressed though, native species hatches were excellent. Everybody wins. The bottom line is, if we stress the alewives with solid Chinook populations, we will catch the heck out of 'em and tourism will increase. We need to curtail all these damaging press releases, especially when the fact is, the alewives will be out there longer than we will be here on earth. (As told to me by one respected fishery biologist) They are amazingly resilient. Now if Asian carp infest us, all bets are off.

Congrats on your new to you Penn Yan. They have great lay-outs and are fish catching machines! If that one has prop pockets it will save you once or twice when you realize you drove over a submerged object!

Yes Jack, I use them on my copper rods. Can't honestly say you have to, and I haven't conducted any kind of comparison. I do feel I get good life out of the copper lines, and have very few "mystery" breaks.

Now this is an interesting thread, all started by a rant of a 21yr old! Excellent responses guys. Paul, I didn't know you were such a gifted writer. Shade, thanks for appreciating charter captains. I have always said we are ambassadors for the fishery. This is never more true than during the so called "off" times when many retreat to other bodies of water. The guys that are grinding it out during the "transitions" prove that good catches can be obtained. You guys have done a great job of enlightening the young angler. The only points I would add are, the average angler is so much more educated than they were years ago. Even with the same amount of fish around, you are sharing them because the average angler is more proficient. If you are looking at what returns to the tribs, the same thing applies. People snap them up quicker, especially at places like the Burt Dam. I have felt that with this increased knowledge and skill, that stocking numbers of Salmon could be increased without any repercussions. We are often met with every excuse under the sun when this is brought up, so concerned sportsmen are doing the next best thing for now and promoting and supporting holding pen projects. To the 21yr old angler, make sure you make the "State of the Lake" meeting closest to you. Learn and express your concerns. We need people like you. They are open to the public and sites like this one should have dates and times soon.

Sluggo, Thank you for serving our Country and for sharing that letter. Because of people like you we can enjoy freedoms like fishing.

Thank you "Fish or Swim" for keeping this in front of everyone. Just a side note if sending to friends and family, the actual petition signature box is in the far right column and wont be seen unless its opened full-screen. Very quick and user friendly.

Thanks everyone, for the welcomes. My involvement here was to help where I could with all the issues facing the fishery/tournaments. Still finding my way around, but I can see where a few chuckles can be had. Tom, you are a big reason why I'm on here. Looking forward to protecting the fishery and promoting the tournament growth with all of you. Dex, who are you kidding? Don't you remember when I called you a "sharp shooter" in that first pilot show? BTW, you would learn even more if you weren't "blowing people up" on the way to EVERY shot we take! My personal favorites are when you grab 2 rods! Share a little will ya? Now you know the deal, I agreed to excuse you from off season mini-camp, so get back to your off season regiment. As you so eloquently text me yesterday--- only 12 weeks til showtime!!! Yvan, so you're the one responsible for pushing drinks on "Wonderboy" and milking him for info! You're in big trouble! You know there's no room for that in the Professionalism you preached at the Captains meeting in Dahlousie last April. Stop Tampering! (hint: if you really want to get to Nick, put him in a "Hot" ice fishin' spot). Looking fwd to seeing our Northern neighbors. Keep us informed as to any exciting news with your circuit. Dave and Andrea, looking fwd to seeing you in Olcott this Spring. Lets all fight to keep the Windmills out of our playground.

Motoman, we are fortunate to have good run-off from silty streams in the western basin, so rarely is flouro necessary. If faced with the ultra-clear water they often have to deal with east, it certainly would help.

Hey Ray, You will have to give me time to learn whos who, and what to take serious. The wind-chill is wicked and the Niagara is currently chocolate milk, so I'm here to respond. I preach to my guys "Plan your work, work your plan", which I believe is a Lombardism. There is a lot more to Pro-Am style competitions besides the program you put in the water. Probably the best advice is to get pummeled badly in a few events, and learn from it. As for big-fish derbies, it was easier years ago when many anglers were not even prepared to land a Lake Ontario Giant, if they hooked one. To put the odds in your favor, use proven presentations in proven areas of the Lake for the species you are after. As for the crazy "murphy's law" type stuff you refer to, I honestly believe the Creator has a sense of humor! It is there for us to see, oh-so-many times that we are not in charge! When we are struggling in a competition, we often "dare" the finest of all gamefish to rip us up while we turn our backs and recite "watched pots never boil"! Stay Warm.

Shade, great to hear you came back to one of the best fisheries in the world! The first thing I would say regarding Browns is there are no rules. To get one under your belt, keep it simple. Although there have been great catches and some real brutes caught on flies or meat behind attractors, get them out of the water most of the time when targeting Browns specifically. Early in the Spring run clean plugs, and during the Summer run clean spoons. Again, not a rule always, but they generally like the warmest water available in the Spring, and the warmer top end of the thermocline in the Summer. Once again, not a hard and fast rule, but they most often go for smaller bait sizes than Salmon. The exploding population of gobys has made it difficult to pull Brownies at times for all of us. They absolutey love them. Hope this helps. The Runnin' Rebel boys are respected lakewide for their Brown trout skills. Talk to them too.

Thanks guys for the warm welcome and kind words!

OK guys it happened. What are these "Jedi mind tricks" of which you speak, Andy? Think I want to have them in my arsenal!!!

Name: Capt Vince Pierleoni Location:Olcott, NY Home Port:Olcott, harbor Boat Name/Type:THRILLSEEKER I fish for:Salmon, Steelhead, Brown trout, Lake trout, Bass ================== Hello fellow Lake Ontario anglers, Well I finally did it! This was due to a normal progression in my "techno" growth, and some gentle prodding by my first mate Nick and friends both new and old. I like what I see, and the forum looks to be an invaluable tool when a call to action is necessary. Which these days, is quite often. I have fished the Lake and its tribs since 1976, and have owned and operated a full-time charterboat business since 1984. I run offseason trips on the Niagara river. I was selected to serve as member of the original fishery congress by the N.Y.S.D.E.C. I currently serve on the Niagara County fishery advisory board. I believe that the tremendous fishery we have is no accident, it is a blessing. After Man ruined the original fishery by building the seaway and letting the alewives and lamprey in, the Lake became a wasteland. When the introduction of Pacific Salmon worked beyond anyones wildest dreams, we were given a second chance. I believe we have a responsibility to protect the Lake from all threats, the latest being the Asian carp and fields of windmills. I am very passionate about the Tournaments held around the Lake. Great way to see different areas of this beautiful lake and meet great people. In my opinion, all things considered, Salmon are the ultimate tournament fish. When you take into account, locating them, getting them to "go", and of course landing the "maniacs"! Fishing against the best anglers on the Great Lakes, with changing weather conditions and the clock ticking away--it doesn't get any better. Those of you that fish them know what I'm talking about. There is no better way to enjoy and showcase our fishery. Thank you in advance for your patience and understanding with my involvement in this forum. The Spring through Fall is very busy, and doesn't leave alot of extra time for the computer. Sincerely, Vince