TyeeTanic

We are arguing about the need for a depth probe. Some people think they know the depth of their rigger because they can see the ball on the FF and say you don't need a depth probe. That is incorrect.

Chas I hate to say but this is not correct. A fish is not dense like a lead 16 lb weight. When you detect a fish and you see the top of the fish arch it is basically at the same position as the transducer.The weight is way behind the transducer and the sonar translates the distance back as depth. Don't believe me? Then I have a question for you. Why do fish show up as arches on your fish finder? Why does that arch actually transition through like 20 ft of depth (point say starts at 80 ft comes up to 60 ft and then pack down to 80 ft)? What is the right depth of the fish (60 or 80 ft, or something in between)? The answer is the arch is created as the fish comes into the sonar cone and at first it's as far as it can be away from the transducer, then it comes under the transducer (as close as it's going to get) and then the boat moves away from the fish and it starts getting further from the transducer again until it is outside of the cone again. The FF has no way of telling the exact depth it can only tell you how FAR the fish is away from the transducer and displays that as depth on the screen. So when it first spots the fish it's far away (so shows deeper 80ft) then it is under the transducer and closer (gradually shows shallower to peak of 60ft) and then it goes away from the transducer again (gradually shows deeper until signal is lost at 80ft). Same with your ball. The FF may say it's 100 ft down but actually it's 100 ft away and behind the boat due to blowback. The ball is lifted as it swings back and is actually sitting at 70 or 80 ft deep. Fish finder incorrectly says 100 ft deep. Anyhow look up YouTube videos on it. The science is out there and it's the fact. If you don't believe me, no problem, carry on.

They say chrome are good for actively feeding/aggresive fish. Otherwise you want black. Most of the time a fish needs to be enticed to bite, so I think black is the safest. Having said that, you could always by chrome and then paint black if you change your mind. It isn't that hard, just use a rubber coating. Also, I agree, I don't think sharks will put much more fish in the boat. We use Torpedoes and have placed in top 10 in a few tournaments.

You don't need to send a picture. If there's no blow back then the rigger line is almost vertical and the ball height will come close to the fish arch height. For salmon fishing we need to run at 2.5 mph and the blowback is considerable putting the ball 60 ft behind the boat and lifting it about 20 ft off the depth you think it is. If you don't drop the rigger weight by that depth then the ball will be above the target depth by that amount. It's a different game when you're going 2.5 mph down speed and in +100 ft of target depth.

I don't fish for mud chickens. I fish salmon. And how do you know your ball is 3' from the bottom? I assume you have a probe or bounce bottom. If you have blow back the top of the fish arch WILL NOT be at the same depth as the ball on your FF if you are truly at the same depth as the fish. It's the laws of physics.The only way to have the ball level with the fish is of you have minimal blowback which can be done by reducing your speed and or increasing your ball weight. If you are using a 16 lb ball the blow back is minimal. If you travel 1.5 mph down speed the blowback is significantly less than say 2.5 mph. Also if you are bouncing bottom and the fish arch is the same level as the ball then you won't see much of a fish arch. Most of the fish arch will be below the bottom of the lake. Please post a picture of what you are saying including your speed and ball weight and everything will be easy to explain.

Almost not possible to measure a fish 60 ft behind the transom and get a hard return. The fish is not dense enough. You might see fish out but the color will always be light (soft signals). If you see that Brite yellow core in the arch it's basically under your transducer.

Todd. The issue is where you measure fish is right under the transducer. The top of the arch is the true depth of the fish (assuming you have a hard return). So even if your ball looks like it's at the same depth as the fish it isn't. The fish is likely 20 ft or so deeper.

Todd put your weights on a scale. If you need accuracy, weigh yourself, get off, and then hold the weight and reweigh. Difference in weight will tell you. I have the 12 lb torpedoes. They are the best out there in my opinion. Good tracking and much less blowback for the same weight in other styles.

Your fish finder will not tell you how deep your riggers are. It only tells you how far away the ball is from the transducer. Think of it like this. Take a 12" string and hold the top. Where you pinch it is the transducer. The string should be going straight down due to gravity. Now with your other hand arch the bottom of the string back. Your FF will say it's 12" deep, as the string is still 12" long and that far from the transducer. But as you pull it back you will see it starts to come off the bottom. Your FF has no way of telling how far back or off the bottom the ball is, only how far the ball is away from the transducer. You need a probe to tell you the true depth.

I've used scottys they are great, reliable, strong (and definitely could support a beer).

This post talks about using smart troll with as much as 600 ft of copper out. http://www.glanglerforum.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-16725.html?s=10370844267e3a9e3633bc2d967fc988

I've had them out on flat wire lines (not weighted down by something), probably 300 ft and still got signal. I think the inventor has tested out 400 ft. I know bloodrun did some work using smart troll to figure out the depth of their copper, and I'm pretty sure it went past 300 ft.

Todd the line counter on the rigger is less of an issue than blowback. With a 12 lb weight going 2.5 mph you will be suprised to learn the ball is tracking 30 to 40 ft behind the boat at certain depths. You will also find out how you get diminishing returns as you put the rigger deeper. You will be suprised how much cable you need put to get down 100 ft. Blowback is a big issue unless you are using 16 lb to 20 lb rigger weights. Most guys use 10 to 12 lbs and I can tell you first hand I'd never go back to a 10 lb weight dup to the insane blowback.

A couple of things on Smart Troll. Firstly you DON'T lose probes on wire and copper! The probe gets attached on the steel line about 1 or more feet away from the terminal tackle (dipsey, leader, etc). When there's a break it is almost always on the mono or a knot. Unless you've put the probe on a compromised steel line (has a kink), it will remain attached to the line even with a break off! So just make sure you put the probe on a clean wire line! Second, I also have the precision trolling book. Two issues - the data is for a certain lure speed (2.5 mph) and with a known amount of line out! We all do different speeds, especially with currents - so this already introduces error. Second we are dependent on our line counters, which ARE NOT ACCURATE. They are only accurate (sort of) when the reel is full. As you pull off line, one revolution is no longer carrying as much line as the previous, and the counter only works on revolutions. It's so bad that when the reel is almost empty the counter is saying one foot of line comes off when only 0.4 - 0.5 ft of line actually comes off! That's over 50% error! The only way to know the true depth of your line is to measure it directly. I was suprised how far off all my lines were when I started using Smart Troll. My riggers were 20 ft too high and similarly my wire lines. Some people may say, why do you need all that info. Well, I use the info when I get a bit (what speed, what temp, what depth, what happened to my line when I made that turn) to (a) tune into what the fish want quicker and (b) help me get setup for the next fishing episode. We all know 6 AM - 9AM is the best bite (most days), so why wouldn't you want to use that time as efficiently as possible and put 15 fish in the boat rather than 2 because you spent all morning trying to figure out what the heck will work!

The probe is very small about the diameter of a 10 cent coin. It has internal rechargeable batteries. I've fished for 6 hours straight with them and still at 90% charge.

Yes preference and features. The X4 cannot do what the smart troll does.

I have an I/O. I'm pretty sure they have fixed the interference issues.

If you are worried about breakoffs the smart troll can still be hooked onto the rigger cables as per the fishhawk. In fact you can put a probe on each rigger to get true depth of each one plus you can track top and bottom of the thermocline. However I've had a smart troll for 4 years and have never lost a probe. The way it's secured to the wire line will mean it would take a catastrophic accident to lose the probe. Chances are basically none of losing the probe. Although I appreciate a new users concern over this, it actually isn't an issue at all. Knowing where your copper and wireline is will suprise you. Most of the time we are a good 10 to 25 ft off target which is important for fish that are turned off. Anyhow my buddy uses the X4 and it's reliable but the smart troll does have an irrefutable technical advantage over the fishhawk.

Smart Troll. No other system can do what it does. You can put up to 6 probes on one system including on copper or wire lines. Least blowback. Very versatile.

Well I had one UV spoon that took a lot of hits, more than average. It was a Dreamweaver Blue Leopard Double UV. Got it at the LOTSA Salmon School last Jan! It seemed to work best when the sun was up just after 8 am. Anyhow my line got cutoff after a tangle and I haven't been able to replace it since. I've used other UV lures, and they really didn't show any magic, but that one Dreamweaver became a go to for me.

A few good colors right there. Have most of them. Someone should pick these up.