Smart Troll

TyeeTanic, Thanks for the excellent points you made in your post and I certainly agree with all of them. You made me realize that I have been emphasizing depth so much I guess I have implied SPEED is not important at all. And with a speed Probe you can probably get everything setup faster because it takes a few for the depth of everything to stabilize. But it is also true that all things being the same (same line, same reading on the counter, same lure, etc). If you duplicate the depth then you are also duplicating the speed. If you are fishing in water with no current and the lure is 50 feet deep...if you come into a 0.5 MPH current that you are traveling against the lure will rise 10 to 30 feet in the water column. If you slow down until the lure is again 50 feet deep then you have duplicated the same down-speed you had before. If you turned around so you was traveling in the same direction as the current the lure would go deeper. In that case...if you speed up until the lure is back to 50 feet deep then you have again duplicated the down-speed as well. That is why I said in a post near the beginning that in my opinion you don't need a Smart Troll Probe with "Speed" IF you have Probes attached to the lines that show depth and temperature. I didn't mean Speed is not important at all. I meant there is a direct correlation between Depth and Speed so if you get bites at a certain depth...if you don't change anything else but adjust the boat speed to get the lure back to the same depth then it is also duplicating the down-speed. The bonus is that you can also tell if a Dipsy pops or if you catch a shaker or pickup weeds or come into a mid-lake current, etc...because all of those things will affect the depth of the gear. Having said all that...clearly any information you can add to the mix can help you get fine tuned quicker. If I had to make a choice I would choose Depth and Temperature...but adding speed to the mix is a sharper edge for sure.

G-Daddy, The only question I have is when you get "repeatability" by controlling the down-speed which is the bigger factor? The fact that your lures are running the same speed or is it because when you are duplicating speed you in turn are also getting your lures at the same approximate depth? Depth and Temperature data helps you to pinpoint that temp break.

LongLine, I am betting the main difference in those lures you mentioned is they run different depths. Agreed about the speed...another thing to consider is if the Probe measuring speed is in a different layer of the water column then it might not be measuring the speed at the lure. If the DR ball is 75 feet deep and you run head into a down-current that goes from 30 feet deep to 60 feet deep then all of your lures and divers will rise in the water column and nothing is detected at the ball.

skipper19, I agree with everything you said...IMO Depth and Temperature are most important. I have noticed that just wave action alone (which causes pulling back and forth on the rods)...can affect the depth of the lure by over 10 feet. If you have live depth data from the lure you will know when that 1 MPH situation happens because it will affect the depth of the lures by many feet.

bandrus1, Guilty...I am certainly biased but I try real hard to keep that from influencing my conclusions too much. I do provide a Probe with Depth, Temp and SPEED but if you ask me I will tell you that you don't need SPEED if you have the Probes with depth and temp. The reason is because if (all else being the same) you duplicate depth then you are also duplicating speed. The Depth/Temp Probes are cheaper, smaller and lighter than the depth/Temp/Speed Probes. Once you know how deep your setups run then you will know when the down-speed is faster because the gear will be higher in the water column than expected and if slower then your gear will be deeper in the water column. If you adjust your boat speed to get the lure back to the expected depth then you are duplicating down-speed.

Sk8man, Bingo...I agree completely. Getting close to the fish is most important. I think the assumption is that fish often congregate in a relatively narrow layer of the water column...of course that is not always true. But if a food chain develops around the thermocline (or in some other layer) the big fish will be there too. Or, if not too actively feeding they might seek a depth that is a comfortable temperature for them. Or whatever reason...if it is true that the target fish can often be found at a particular depth then it is helpful to find the depth where the bite is on and then target that depth with as many lines as possible. That fits your theory exactly...get in close proximity to the fish.

Rolmops, I didn't mean to completely ignore that but thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify that I am only talking about lines that are NOT attached to a downrigger. I agree completely that a relative short run attached to a DR ball will not change depth too much with small changes in speed. A few feet maybe but not 10 to 30 feet like the lines that are not attached to the DR. The only thing that a downrigger has in common is that it enables you to target a desired depth. If you are monitoring the depth of lines not attached to a downrigger you would know immediately if you were in the currents you described because going against that current the probe (and lure) would rise lots higher in the water column and if you were chasing the current the probe would be much deeper than expected. If you measure down-speed in the same layer of water where your lures are found then going against the current you would slow down until the down-speed matched your desired speed and if traveling in the same direction as the current you would speed up until the down-speed matched your desired speed. Either of those would in-turn put the lures at a particular depth. If you know the depth of the lures you can do the same thing...slow down or speed up until the lures reached a desired depth.

Been offline for a few hours but now that I am back it is great to see all of the comments. I will take the time below to respond to all of you whom have commented up to this point. I absolutely respect everyone's input so if I make a counter point please know that my attitude is nothing but positive. I just want to keep the creative thoughts going...the challenging points all of you have made sure have me thinking it all through. So I will respond to each of you below and look forward to your responses.

Just how important IS Down-Speed I know...many of you are thinking that down-speed is extremely important...and it is. But the question is why is down-speed SO important. In this post I will express my very controversial view just to get you thinking. Typically when I ask why down-speed matters so much the response I get is because it affects the lure's action and I agree that it does. Certainly the speed has to be fast enough that the lure has a somewhat natural looking action but not so fast that is just barrel rolls (or comes to the surface). In my experience...while the range can be narrow for some lures, many lures look good for 2 MPH or more (from 1.5 MPH to 3.5 MPH for example). I looked hard but I could not find any manufacturer who publishes a minimum and maximum speed for their lures. Others tell me that the fish are sometimes "just too lazy" to chase the lure if it is going too fast; or conversely "it just doesn't trigger their instinct to bite" if the lure is traveling too slow. Maybe either of these is the case sometimes...but my “instinct†tells me that a few tenths of a MPH would not typically be enough of a factor to make that much difference. If you drag the lure past the fish's nose he will usually bite (or not bite) regardless if the lure is traveling a few tenths MPH faster or slower. When I ask what speed they troll some captains tell me they like 1.8 MPH to 2.1 MPH and others tell me if they are going slower than 2.5 MPH come help because something is wrong. The captains who troll slow catch fish and the captains who troll faster also catch fish. These guys might have some variation but typically they use the same lures, meat rigs and other gear. One more thing...It is very common to catch a fish when the boat is in a turn. I have heard captains say if the bite is on the inside of the turn they know the fish want it a "little slower" today or if it is on the outside of the turn they want it a "little faster" today. So, here is why I get confused when I put it all together: Some captains say fish slow...if you go faster the lure action is bad Some captains say fish fast...if you go slower the lure action is bad Most captains say if the fish bite the lines on the outside of a turn...troll faster Most captains say if the fish bite the lines on the inside of a turn...troll slower Sometimes when I am thinking about all of this I picture in my mind...if the lure travels right past the fish at 2.0 MPH the fish will bite but troll that same lure right past the fish at 2.5 MPH and the fish won't bother. But, find any lure or diver depth chart that shows how deep it dives at different speeds and you will find that 0.5 MPH can affect the lure's depth by 15 to 30 feet or even more. Many "Smart Troll" users have proven that to be true. So, that paints a whole different picture. Now I see in my mind’s eye that if your lure is at the same depth as the fish at 2.0 MPH it could be 30 feet above the fish at 2.5 MPH (out of the zone). When I think of it that way it makes more sense to me: Maybe some captains catch fish trolling slower because they have learned to get their lures at the "right depth" at the slower speed. Maybe some captains catch fish trolling faster because they have learned to get their lures at the "right depth" at the faster speed. Maybe the fish bite on the inside of a turn because they are deeper today. Maybe the fish bite on the outside of a turn because they are not as deep today. Maybe it is more about depth than down-speed. Maybe controlling down-speed is so important because that in-turn determines the depth of your lures. "S Turns" cause the lures to rise and fall in the column passing through the zone where the fish are hanging-out that day. Same with speeding up and slowing down...the gear rises and falls in the water column. In the past the only way you could duplicate the depth where the "bite is on" was by precisely controlling the down-speed. But now, with "Smart Troll" you can learn to target a specific depth or temperature regardless of speed. My mind is pretty open and I am still thinking it all through so it will be great to hear your "two cents".

The Smart Troll Probes with Depth/Temp/Speed are now available. I am happy to answer any questions. Here is the link... http://smarttroll.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=25 We also plan to release a Kayak Smart Troll kit early in May. The Kayak kit has a special (tiny) transducer that is incorporated in to a RAM mount with a 1" RAM ball. The ball attaches to a rail on the Kayak so the Transducer Mount can be attached or removed "at will". The kit includes a portable waterproof battery to power the Smart Troll Receiver. It is designed to be completely portable and light weight and it takes up very little room on your Kayak. This kit is also suitable for a canoe or Small boat. I will take "no money down" pre-orders for the Kayak kit now...on a first come-first serve basis. Just send an email to [email protected] and express your desire to be placed on the pre-order list. If you have any questions about any Smart Troll product you can ask here or email. [email protected]