darryl choronzey
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Everything posted by darryl choronzey
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Guys, I really don't want to invade a board, don't want to bang heads with with anyone. If you guys really know me, you know that I love what New York puts into the lake and the results you guys have produced The fishery right now is pretty great, The bait situation is nowhere near what it was when us 'old guys' were around originally, but I honestly believe your boys in charge are doing as pretty good job Come on Canadadude..who are you really??? I know who you are, but tell the rest of this board... Hope this doesn't happen in the states, but this is the reason why we stock almost a million Atlantics a year with only 11 back. Thanks for providing a great fishery -
Well Canadadude ( won't ask you to quit hiding behind a make believe) I won't say that a program that has been going steady since 1987 is still in it's infancy. Or the fact that 8 million fish have been stocked and only 9 came back to the Credit at Streetsville is nothing really to worry about. As for me and the old boys having a hate on for the MNR for the rest of our lives, surprisingly, myself and few other old boys work pretty closely with the MNR. Come on up to the Saugeen where we've improved a steelhead run from approximately 2500-3000 to upwards of 50,000 adult steelhead. What me and few old boys as you put it do have a hate on is the close to one million atlantics stocked every year, the waste of paying the upkeep of more than 7,000 broodstock, the misuse of hatchery space for this grand plan....and not even attempting to pick a better small river or two in the east end of the lake. Why not save the waste and simply do what New York does and cap the number of Atlantics stocked to between 50,000-100,000. And again, the million or more pledged to the ofah for this idiocy is still coming out of taxpayers pockets one way or the other. As I said I work pretty close with more than a few in the MNR and even from this ministry we are getting the warnings back about the effects of the new plans and that includes in house warnings from some that there's only so much money and hatchery space and native fish will come first and foremost. It maybe the 'same crap and just a different day', but maybe we can see you out on a river collecting eggs or moving fish or even working in a hatchery. You might already be doing that, but since I don't know who you are, I doubt it very much. As for your 'croaker' rainbows, blame the Ontario mnr...they haven't changed or refreshed their brood stock in eons, although us old boys have suggested over and over that we could easily supply them with 'wild' eggs from the Saugeen that are disease tested and free and also are the same genetics used by New York, Michigan and Wisconsin in their 'wild' program. More and more Ontario anglers are hitting the Blue Zone and I would bet my last lure that the majority of those 'wild' steelhead are New York stocked. The same holds true for the majority of kings and coho that feed off the Ontario shore right up until early to mid august. You see, I'm more than ready to acknowledge that New York runs their fishery more like a business and not a grand experiment. Read the link guys, and make you own decision on which way Ontario is headed.
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DNRoach, here in Canada when you can pay the bills, you are never cancelled...it's call 67 and bad knees. Anyways, I was just explaining here in Ontario and it is not funny it is a mess. And really though you can't say they have the thiamine problem figured out at all. They know what causes the problem, but have absolutely no way of preventing it's deadly affects on returning fish , outside the hatchery laid eggs. Thiamine baths are great in a confined hatchery, but impossible in the wild. As for the Credit River, visit it one day. Urban sprawl, runoff, filtration plants etc just continue to make it worse as a target Atlantic rehabilitatiion stream. Truthfully, you could call it the river of no return. Your own fisheries people realize that we are eons away from making a suitable forage fish available in enough numbers to eliminate the problem. Like I said, I've never knocked New York's fisheries program , which is far and above my side of the border. But I do quite a bit of conversing back and forth with officials around the Great Lakes and only in Ontario does it seem that natural self-sustaining reproduction is the goal, while our American counterparts strive to provide a sport fishery first, rewards from the economy second and then natural reproduction.
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Steve, the Canadian Tackle Manufactures put one out a few years back on Canada as a whole. Nothing from any other non-governments. I haven't had a chance to go over this board in a while, but Ontario is drawing up a new set of plans or or Provincial Fish Strategy that is real scary. I believe the value is noted in there and most of it seems generated in the north country and I would imagine more from Erie that Lake Ontario. If you guys want to look it over, you can see the intent seems to be a lot more emphasis on natural native stockings for everywhere especially in the Great Lakes...More lake trout, more sturgeon, more (duh) Atlantics. The shift could be away from Pacifics (chinook, coho, steelhead) and brown trout. Trust me, nothing, absolutely nothing that happens on this side of the weather marker would surprise me....but it won't be good. Here's the link to look it over.....it is not going over well on this side with the people that have taken the time to look it over http://www.ebr.gov.on.ca/ERS-WEB-External/displaynoticecontent.do?noticeId=MTIwODEx&statusId=MTgwODU4&language=en
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Longline, if you look hard at the Great Lakes stocking report you will see that Ontario as a government stocked absolutely no chinook or coho whatsoever in Lake Huron or Georgian Bay, Two volunteer clubs on Huron stocked approximately 150-200,000 chinook for a few years and one club on Georgian Bay stocked approximately 150,000 a year. What few people understand is the fact that Huron/Georgian Bay had nowhere near the fertility of lakes Michigan, Erie or Ontario. There was less of a phosphate load and less alewife and smelt numbers than Lake Ontario and the fish were a lot smaller on average than Lake Ontario. When the zebra mussel and others invaded Huron the water cleared fast and smelt and alewife numbers collapsed and the sport fishery with it. It can be said that perhaps too many chinook were planted in Huron and that was nearly all by Michigan, but it's important to remember that Huron was never ever as fertile and bait rich as lake Ontario So don't be too worried as you so 'put it'...."our Atlantic hating friends" on the other side of side of the fence kept putting in"...because it certainly wasn't much if anything at all. Personally I'm not really an Atlantic hater....I just don't like My Government stocking 8 million fish, wasting two hatcheries, wasting fishing opportunities, wasting fishing opportunities and loosing possible revenue from what could be a vibrant fishery all for the return of 11 Atlantics back to the Credit River last year. The project in my opinion is idiotic on My side of the border...but I've never, ever criticized anything on how New York runs their fishery. I appreciate it and what it gives us on the water By the way settle your fears or doubts and take the time to check it out for yourself http://www.glfc.org/fishstocking/exactsearch.htm
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Whoa buddy. Your facts are so far out on the Province of Ontario's Atlantic program I would think you must be one of those paid propaganda guys who have got a vested interest in this dud of a creature. For starters the thiamine problem in the wild has never been figured out to allow successful self-sustaining self-reproduction. When they feed on a diet of alewife which they do not enough eggs will hatch a live to propagate and that's a fact. Roger Greil at Lake Superior State was losing from 85 to 100 percent of his eggs taken from wild fish without treating them when alewife were the main forage.. He also sat in a meeting with Ontario MNR bosses and explained even with the alewife collapse in Huron if he quit his stocking program the Soo's atlantic fishery would die with a few years of him shutting down his hatchery. Also Ontario's returns have never been good with Atlantics never, never , never.... We've stocked approixmately 8 million Atlantics from fry to advanced yearlings since 1987. Two years ago they dumped almost a million alone into the Credit River and what did they get back to their main stocking river in the recent past....33 atlantics in 2011, 20 atlantics in 2012 and a whopping 9 fish in 2013 . All to the first dam and fish trap at Streetsville. And People Have The Nerve To State The Atlantic Program Is Getting Better Here In Ontario??? Eight million frigg'n Atlantics stocked and 11 came back to Streetsville last autumn.. And what a sport fish... our two top charter boaters Randy Scott and Wayne Andrew caught a total of 3 Atlantics all last year. In Ontario our Atlantic salmon program is based on broad stock and there are now more than 7,800 Atlantics being babysat around the clock for egg purposes How dumb the program is on our side is the fact that the rivers used are not anywhere near what they were when the fish first went extinct back in the 1880's. Atlantics go poof (like in death) when they have to try and survuve in water warmer than 75 degrees. When those fish that do survive to come home in the summer, the Credit rises as high as 80 degrees in the lower stretches....Campbell's Cream of Atlantic Soup anyone????. The brain trust behind this program just don't seem to know what a thermometer is or possibly how to use it. The three strain LaHave, Sebago and Lac Jean are actually midgets when you compare them to steelhead , browns and salmon...and that's if they survive...which they don't...at least not on the Canadian side I'm was asked to post on this subject by a few members, but really don't want to keep it going with the perch just starting to bite down here on lake erie. Here on the Canadian side we've put millions of dollars into this program and it's getting worse and more expensive every day. You might hear a lot about non-profit fishing organizations getting involved...but guess where their millions are coming from....Ontario Power Generation, The Liquor Control Board of Ontario and the Trillium Foundation....all run by the province of Ontario and the funding comes out of the taxpayers' pocket one way or the other. It's a very, very expensive blunder over here in Ontario and they keep bumping up the numbers stocked annually as they go along. Anyways below is a post that I put together on Spoonpullers with a very , very long report on this idiocy which we call the Ontario Atlantic Salmon Restoration program... I believe they had more than 21,000 views and 450 posts from dissatisfied Ontario anglers. You should be able to click on the site below, if not I can send it over in another format Important to remember... be very careful the stories you hear on the success of the Atlantic salmon in Ontario...there is a lot of pay cheques and reputations involved on the other side of the fence. The thiamine problem has not been figured out and Atlantics are not on the increase.......of course the way they keep bumping the stocking numbers up and are now stocking right around a million a year between the MNR and their partners they just might even go up to a hundred or more caught fish down the road and that's still a joke. Hope you guys can read the full report on the site below, If not I can re-post it....It's a horror story trust me. It's totally amazing how a few in Ontario's government can get away with this...Actually you could say it a crime. http://www.spoonpullers.com/index.php/topic,19871.0.html
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Captain Vince: hello and yes I knew that crazy Pollock for too many years, fished with him a few weeks before he passed and loved to rock his boat on purpose if you know what I mean..... matter of fact , he stoled that Penn Yann from me way back when. I was with his second bride a couple of weeks ago an all seems to be well. But trust me no one misses him more than me Anyways guys back on this Atlantic subject and again I'm not sticking my nose in the way you guys stock fish. Some say you don't stock enough fish to get the right results.. Well in Ontario we've gone in the exact opposite direction and gone really overboard. Our results are 'zilcheh' The same guys that say you aren't stocking enough atlantics also want to press the fact that Soo has such a great fishery. Well Greil at the Soo very, very seldom stocks more than 35-50,000 Atlantics a year. His success is only based on how he uses the same site to fertilize, rear and release and imprint his fish to the right size and then his success is not as good (and he will admit this) as what he would get on chinook or steelhead....but fish come home in late May, June and July to ice cold Superior water. the original Lake Ontario Atlantic salmon went extinct back in the 1880's and is gone for a number of reasons.. Those reason are now magnified a million times and I doubt they will ever be corrected, but your scientists will continue to waste money and fishing opportunities.. Ask the Great Lakes Fisheries Commission why they are wasting 200k on this stupid new fish weir on the Duffin Creek. By the way their boss didn't even know it was happening until I told him???? A couple of Canadian bios sucked him in to this. We do not have these cold water conditions any more, at least not on the north shore...no matter what the propaganda tells you Right now you can't walk into an MNR office because they are all locked. You can't find a conservation officer because for the most part they are laid off and no new ones are being hired, like most areas cutbacks are the way of life....but we continue to experiment and waste money. I'm not saying what New York does is wrong, I think guys like Dan Bishop are almost Gods in my opinion...but in Ontario it's being done all wrong. Please do not candy coat the Ontario Atlantic program... it's a joke.
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.Jezz King Davy, I only pointed out real facts on the Ontario side and I meant real facts, you and old Longline were quick to respond, I don't concern myself with the u.s. side because that is your business .....please don't say it's great over here because it's a failicy. And again, thanks for all the fish you guys are stocking because without you the lake would suck. But facts are facts, we don't get thousands of Atlantics back.. 33 fish came came back in '2011' and only 20 came back only 20 atlantics came back '2012'. Half a million dollars spent as year and that's the results. Please don't don't pass up this point. Anyways, I don't know how you guys work on this board. I've owned and published a fishing magazine for 30 years and a fishing show for another 20 years and also done a lot of preservation on the north shore and across Canada. Also been awarded a national fishing recognitjon It concerns me some times that voices can hide behind disguised identities Anyways guys, you do the best for the lake, but that is only me saying that. Cronzy
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Hi guys, Darryl Choronzey here from Ontario. I've probably been more involved in the Ontario sport fishery than most over the years and will admit that I am totally against the present Atlantic salmon program and the way it's handled in Ontario. For starters King Davy the Ontario side has not been really heavily involved in Atlantics for just 5 or 6 years, but actually since 1987. It's been just the last 6 years that the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters (OFAH) jumped into the game with the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources to make matters even worse with a propaganda push that does a pretty good job of covering up the truths and candy coating the issues. At present we stock Atlantics in two different ways. Firs the Ontario MNR utlizes the Normandale fish hatchery to produce and stock 400,000 fry, 150,000 fall fingerlings (10-11 month old) and 75,000 advanced yearlings...at a cost of approximately $350,000 dollars per year. Then the Ontario goverment raises an additional 620,000 eyed eggs and fry for other idiotic stocking programs in north shore tribs. The eyed eggs and fry and fingerlings from the second program go to outsource hatcheries such as Sir Sanford Fleming and the Metro East Anglers Ringwood facility etc... All of this idiocy is the result of Ontario's brood stock program at the Harwood Fish Hatchery. Trust me it costs a ton of money to rear these brood stock year after year after year. Between the two hatcheries we estimate the total cost of the two programs to be more than half a million dollars annually. Again King Davy you are totally wrong about the return to the Ontario rivers or the harvest. The Credit River is the main trib for this idiotic experiment. In 2011 only 33 adult atlantics were captured at the two dams on the Credit. This past year a measly 20 Atlantics came back to the river. At Bowmanville Creek this past year more than 5800 chinook, coho and rainbow were lifted over the fishway. How many Atlantics??? Wow....2 of these so called super fish!! At the same time our best fishing guides only note 1 or 2 or often no Atlantic harvest over the entire summer. Yes, there is an Atlantic fishery fishery at the Soo rapids, but it is based on very special reasons. Roger Greil and aquaintence of mine runs the program at the university. The eggs are fertilized, hatched and reared for upwards of 20 months right at the site...then they are released directly at the same site into the waters of the Soo rapids. This means the best imprinting possible for maximum returns. The fish return as adults in late May, June and July when cool water temperatures coming from Lake Superior make for maximum conditions for the fish. I have yet to see any major tributary on Lake Ontario including the Credit, Bronte, Duffins Creek or even you Salmon River that will sustain these fish during our summer months. These Ontario tribs have been cleared of river shade and damed for eons and are just too warm to sustain cool survival conditions. Then you have the thyamine deficiency problem. Greil the guy at the Soo who again has the only successful Atlantic program notes that he had to treat every egg taken from wild stock of thyamine deficiency or he lost between 90 and 100 percent of his wild eggs. The reason for the problem? Atlantics feeding on alewife just can't produce viable eggs. If not treated they don't hatch and survive. Just how in the hell are Lake Ontario Atlantics expected to self-reproduce when their main diet is alewife. For the past two years I've been communicating with fisheries supervisors on both sides of the lake and the Great Lakes Fisheries Commission on Atlantic numbers, costs and results. The fisheries people on my side of the lake it seems obviously bu.l sh..t the people on your side of the lake on our Atlantic salmon results. Talking to your people they get the sense that all is well and great with this idiotic experiment and that definitely is not the case. The results of this program in Ontario are disappointing and dismal at best. Times are tough in Ontario. MNR offices are being shut to the public, funding is being slashed , conservation officers are going extinct and still we carry on with this idiotic program. Just recently word leaked out that the Great Lakes Fisheries Commission was funding an 'Alaskan' fish weir to try and find Atlantics returning to Duffins Creek here on my side of the lake. When I questioned the Commission heads they debunked any thought of such a waste of money...Guess what? The next day the Commission bosses found out they had been sucked into spending $200,000 for this idiotic attempt at trying to find Atlantics that aren't there. Seems the bios under the bosses weren't telling the bosses. Two hundred grand spent on a two year fish counting experiment to find the phantom fish. Good thing we have money to spend on this little scheme. Restoration science my a-- on my side of the lake and the same goes for those so-called 10 rivers with smolt raising qualities. Most of the those rivers are as warm as Campbell's tomato soup if an Atlantic ever lives to come home when they are suppose too. Many of those same rivers have dam obstructions. The Credit itself has two dams that are operated on a stop and lift regulation. Kings aren't allowed above Streetsville and no Steelhead are allowed above Norval. The water downstream is lethal when the Atlantics should first appear and the spawning waters are locked off to natural passage when the stream cools in autumn. One big joke. Again, we do not have thousands of Atlantics coming back on this side of the lake. We had 33 adults in 2011 and 20 adults in 2012 and that's all that had been recovered with more than 7 million fish stocked since 1987. Trust me, don't believe all you hear from our MNR or the special interest groups involved in this idiotic program. The facts I've given you are the real facts. I would imagine some to differ and argue my post, but it is the facts and the truth. I'm worried about catching fish and enjoying the fishery. Not wasting money, time and hatchery space on an idiotic experiment.