John E Powell

There are many contributing factors that cause water in large bodies of water to move. Some of them are the Coriolis Effect, underwater geological features, tidal effects of the sun and moon, prolonged and/or strong winds, water movement from large tributaries, and temperature variances. In the great lakes, the greatest factor is temperature differences is water acted upon by winds. Winds cause waves on the surface of the lake by absorbing energy from the wind. If you stand in the water on a beach on a windy day, you can feel the energy of the waves as the water slaps upon your body. Put the energy you feel in the context of the energy absorbed by the water across the entire surface of Lake Ontario and I think you can see that there is an enormous amount of energy being applied by the wind to move water around. Here is a link to the latest satellite imagery of the surface currents in Lake Ontario: http://www.glerl.noaa.gov/res/glcfs/glcfs.php?lake=o&ext=sfcur&type=N&hr=00 Note that the direction of the arrow indicates the direction of current flow and the color of the background represents the speed of that current (see the color key to the left). Try clicking on the "Animation" link near the top of the page for a historical look at how the surface currents may have changed over the last 48 hours (the animation plays from 48 hrs ago to the most recent) As I wrote this response, the surface currents were flowing generally from North to South across the lake. As this water flows South across the surface of the entire lake, it has to go somewhere. Where it goes is downward and generally pushes the deeper water in the opposite direction. So let us use some examples to try to understand this. Let’s assume the surface current is traveling from N to S at a speed of 1 mph, and this water flow extends below the surface for approximately 30 feet. Below this depth, from 30 to 60 feet, the water is returning in the opposite direction traveling S to N at the same 1 mph speed. The difference between these two currents at the depth of 30 feet is 2 mph. If we were to troll S with the wind and you were using a speed indicator that measured how fast the boat traveled through the water (surface speed indicator - SSI), let us further assume this speed measured 2 mph. Excluding all other factors, a GPS would indicate that the boat is traveling 3 mph over ground (or the bottom of the lake) due to 1 mph surface current plus 2 mph SSI actual boat speed through the water, however, if you were to place a lure over the side and let it run alongside the boat, the lure's speed through the water would be equal to the speed of the boat traveling through the water as reported by the SSI or 2mph. Let’s say our lure is an Evil Eye spoon that runs well at this speed. If you rely only on GPS speed, you would think this lure is running well at 3 mph (when in actuality it is running only 2 mph). Now, you attach our lure to our downrigger release and send it down to 45 feet, right in the middle of the 30-60 foot current going the opposite direction. Remember from above that there is a 2 mph difference between surface and subsurface currents and in this case we would be trolling into the subsurface currents so the Lure Speed would have to be added to the SSI speed so the lure would be traveling through the subsurface water at 2+2 or 4mph! Relying on GPS speed alone we feel confident in our Evil Eye's tantalizing wobble when in reality the fish sees our Evil Eye spinning like a propeller blade. Now we see a nice pod of bait and some active fish on our sonar but we don't get a hit so we decide to turn the boat 180 degrees to make another pass through them. As we change our heading from traveling with the surface current to traveling into the surface current our GPS speed drops from 3 mph (2+1 going with the current) to 1mph (2-1 going against or into the current). Let us see what our lure is doing: The boat is still moving forward through the surface water at 2mph but you're now going into a 1 mph current so the boat has a net speed of 1mph which interestingly matches the GPS speed of 1mph. But now let us recall that our lure is attached to a downrigger that is set at a depth where the water is traveling at the same net speed and direction as the boat. Now our fish sees our Evil Eye dangling from the release dead in the water. A side note here - this is why so many novice fisherman catch fish when they make turns, because as they turn, lure speed transitions from too fast to too slow, or vise versa, and for a brief time during the turn the lure travels at a speed where the lure is productive and they catch a fish - all the while thinking their unknowingly incorrect GPS speed finally caught them a fish and because of their success they come out the next trip and continue their speed errors confident in their misunderstanding of what is actually happening with their lure presentation. Getting back to our scenario, the GPS speed skipper thinks he's only going 1mph, with, in reality, a net 0mph, so what does he do? He increases his boat speed by 2mph so his GPS once again reads 3mph (the speed at which he was traveling earlier when the lure looked so enticing to him trolled next to the boat). Now in reality, his lure which was dead has sped up by 2 mph to a speed where the lure was designed to be productive and as we approach and pass through our pod of bait and active fish, we catch one. We even might pass back and forth through this spot alternating between propeller spinning lure speeds going South and productive speeds going North and catch a few more fish, but all the time we think we're traveling 3mph on our GPS when in fact we only caught fish when our lure was in a turn or on the productive North troll at 2mph. What a downrigger speed and temperature unit does is take the mystery out of all the possible variables. It uses a precision sensor at the same depth as your lure is being trolled to let you know exactly how fast the lure is traveling through the water (surrounding the lure) relative to all the combined factors which influence and effect boat speed. It helps you keep your lures moving through the water at the correct productive speeds all the time, not just part of the time. That is why it is far more useful a tool than a GPS to measure trolling speed. Moreover, you will be able to share your information with others, and use the information other people share with you more effectively. If they are experienced trollers and they are talking speed, it's pretty universally understood they are likely reporting down speed (lure speed) and not GPS speeds which can be correct or off by a lot from day to day. An experienced troller is going to rely upon something that is consistent and repeatable from day to day, not a system that has lots of variables and changes throughout the day as environmental conditions change. Unless you are out on the water near another boat going the exact same direction with them (where all the environmental variables are likely duplicated between your boat and theirs) any reference to a GPS speed is likely useless because you cannot know the environmental context or collective factors which influenced that speed. To read a forum post where someone says I caught all my fish at 3.5 GPS speed yesterday on a SW to NE troll is pretty much meaningless to you today. Hearing on the radio that a buddy is catching fish on Evil Eyes should tell you that he's probably trolling a little slower than usual because you know that lure's productive speed range and it will clue you into the fact you may need to slow down and change you offerings to something designed to work at slower speeds. But, if you listen to him tell you he's going 3.5 on his GPS, you might think you have to speed up cause you’re going 3mph (and on your South troll, your lures are already spinning) What are they going to do at 3.5? Now if you’re near each other and he tells you 3.5 GPS on a heading of 355 degrees, at least you will be in the ball park part of the time. If you want to catch fish more consistently and in greater numbers, do yourself a favor, buy a downrigger mounted down-speed unit and stop using your GPS speed for this purpose.

I'd go a pair of used electrics if budget is tight.

Still some of my favorite spoons, especially in the spring.

If you do not have the capability or equipment for the double hole saw described above, you can place a temporary cover over your existing hole and then drill a new hole using the cover to center the pilot hole for your existing hole. A piece of clear plastic is ideal so you can easily see the center of your existing hole. Then just drill through both the materials at the same time.

Down speed is key. The GPS displays you boat's speed over the bottom of the lake, not your lure's speed through the water. They are rarely the same, and often are not even close to each other due to surface currents going in one direction and underwater currents going in another direction. Wind and wave action can further increase the differences between the two. To use GPS speed you really need to have your lures fishing close to the surface. I find 2.2-2.6 the most productive down speed for salmon and steelhead, and 1.8-2.2 for lake and brown trout. Most lures will not run correctly below or above this speed unless they are very speed tolerant. Fishing just one lure faster than it was designed to be run can kill an entire spread of lures if it is doing something odd like spinning (excluding lures/baits designed to spin slowly at trolling speeds like rotating flashers or "meat rigs". I would consider fishing at speeds quicker than these unusual.

I will also throw my support for the knot posted at LOTSA and the Ernie Lantiegne (aka Fish Doctor) video. It looks a little ugly, but it's super strong and easy to tie even out on the water. Works very well with both 7 and 19 strand wire.

I found this online, but it's not a official Rapala source: 12lb line... Line out - Feet Down 20'---------10' 40'---------14' 60'---------17' 80'---------20' 100'--------23' 140'--------27' 200'--------29'

Yes.

About the only time I will run a snubber is if I am fishing close to the surface and specifically targeting rainbows/steelhead in late April/May along a thermal bar (where they are making numerous jumps sometimes pulling the diver clear of the water) or walleye trolling with one friend who is particularly heavy handed and tends to pull hooks from fish a lot. Otherwise, I can't find a compelling reason to use them.

If I had the room for another boat, I'd snap this up in a second for a trailerable Lake Erie Walleye boat. The guys is basically giving the boat away for free given the cost of the new engine and rigging, and the taxes he paid on it last year. The boat is in really nice shape for it's age also. It just needs a good keel-roller trailer with side bunks and your all set.

I started out fishing for bass with my dad in the early 70s on a 13' Boston Whaler with a 10hp engine and a 14.5' Grumman with a 25hp engine. Just watch the weather reports and use your head. For your first trip in August, I'd try an early morning inshore king run out of oak orchard, and if the weather doesn't build during the day, transition to brown trout fishing. If the weather is really flat, you can then venture a bit offshore. When you get some experience with handling and trolling your boat with all your trolling gear out, you'll know what water you can and can't fish. If early morning is not your thing, consider a trip out of golden hill state park for browns. It a low fishing pressure area between Olcott and Oak Orchard and the bigger trailerable boats avoid it because the opening to the lake is basically just a cut in the beach. It's a great place to launch and fish from smaller boats especially 17' and under. If the wind looks like it will be too much to fish the lake, then I'd head to the Niagara River.

Not mine, but helping a friend post the listing: http://bostonwhalersearchsite.blogspot.com/p/1987-boston-whaler-revenge-20-wt-2012.html

Here is an interesting video to watch, what the great lakes were and are forming and what they would look like if drained. part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qOZJ7cfAuM part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cAx9hLAfaU part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHKmv3p9OuM

I added a few more reels to my post #23 above. Can anyone provide the retrieve distance per turn of the handle on a Shimano Tekota 800/800LC? It may be in the owners manual, but it's not online aparently.

I think you are referring to a product called "Wingers" from a company called Great Lakes Planers. Scroll down this page about 3/4 of the way to the bottom: http://www.greatlakesplaners.com/products.htm

As a manufacturer of custom fishing rods, I can confirm that this tax has been around for a long time before Obama and has nothing to do with Obama or Obamacare. What is unfair about this tax is that it must be collected at every stage where value is added to a product. For instance, the manufacturers who make the rod components I use tax me when I purchase them. When I assemble them into a rod and increase their value with my labor, tax must be charged and collected again on the entire new sale price, not just the increase in vlaue.

SammySlayer, The Solterra SLR-50L weighs 53 oz. and has a retrieve of 32" of line per turn when the reel is full. It's a really large reel and has more than enough capacity for your backing and copper. By comparison the Clarion CLR553-LS weights 30.7 oz. and has a retrieve of 53" of line per turn when the reel is full. It is a smaller reel than the Solterra for sure, and is geared for much quicker line retrieval. Basically you just need to decide if you want to go really long on the copper 500-700' and/or want to have lots of backing or can get by with less. For what it's worth, Blood Run published their reel fill data as follows using their 45lb copper and 30lb backing: Shimano Tekota 800/800LC, and Okuma Convector CV-55L/Clarion CLR553-LS: all 100yds backing and 450' copper. Penn 345 GT2: 150yds backing 450' copper, 125yds backing 500' copper, 100yds backing 550' copper. *Solterra SLR-50L*: 450yds backing 500' copper, 350yds backing 550' copper, 300yds backing 600'copper, 250yds backing 650' copper, 100yds backing 700' *Note: some of the Solterra numbers don't seem to transition smoothly from one to another as they are listed on the Blood Run data sheet but I copied them as they were listed. With the slower retrieve of the Solterra it would seem to make more sense to use it with the heavier 60lb copper allowing you to use less line to achieve similar depths as longer 45lb copper setups. For instance, the Blood Run info lists the following data on the 60lb copper for the Solterra: Solterra SLR-50L (60lb copper): 350yds backing 300' copper, 300yds backing 350' copper, 250yds backing 400' copper, 150yds backing 450' copper, 100yds backing 500' copper. From this data, it is possible to do a rudimentary calculation to determine just how many cranks of the reel it would take to bring in a full copper of 700' of 45lb, and 500' of 60 on the Solterra, and 450' on the Convector and Clarion. Of course this data will be flawed because it will not take into account the changing spool diameter as the line is spooled on the reel, but since the effect will be similar across all the reels, it can be used for comparison purposes: Convector CV-55L: 450' 45lb copper at 34" per turn is 159 turns of the handle (real world will be more turns because the spool diameter changes as the reel empties and fills and there will be drag slip if you have a fish) Clarion CLR553-LS: 450' 45lb copper at 53" per turn is 102 turns of the handle (same note as above) Solterra SLR-50L: 300' 60lb copper at 32" per turn is 113 turns, 350' 60lb copper is 131 turns, 400' 60lb copper is 150 turns, 450' 60lb copper is 169 turns, 500' 45 or 60lb copper is 188 turns, 550' 45lb copper is 206 turns, 600' of 45lb copper is 225 turns, 650' of 45lb copper is 244 turns, and 700' of 45lb copper is 263 turns. (also same note on reality being more turns) So on a really deep copper with the Solterra you could go 700' of 45 and turn the handle 263 turns or 500' of 60lb and turn the handle 188 times or approximately 30% fewer times. (reality will probably be more than 30% fewer times). SOME ADDED INFO I EDITED IN AFTER MY ORIGINAL POST I found some Penn reel data so I will add this to the post: Penn 345 GT2 (26" per turn of the handle): 400' copper is 185 turns of the handle, 450' copper is 208 turns of the handle, 500' of copper is 231 turns of the handle, and 550' copper is 254 turns. Another Penn reel not often mentioned but could be considered for copper duty is the next step up in the Penn lineup over the GT series, the Penn Fathom series of reels. Within that series the model FTH60LW sports the following mfg listed capacities: 440yds of 40lb mono and 900yds of 65lb braid placing it's size between the Penn 340GT2 and 345GT2, and in a similar class size wise to the Shimano Tekota 800/800LC and Convector CV-55L/Clarion 553-LS. It has a quicker retrieve than the very slow GT series reel at 35" per turn of the handle. This reel also comes with premium HT100 drag washers and a titanium nitride coated levelwind. Blood Run does not currently list this reel on their data table, but I will make the assumption that it will have similar capacities to the afore mentioned Shimano and Okuma reels: Penn FTH60LW (35" per turn of the handle): 400' copper is 138 turns of the handle, and 450' copper is 154 turns of the handle. If the reel can hold 500' of copper with adequate backing then 500' of copper is 171 turns of the handle. This is a very competitive retrieve to the Okuma Convector reels, but in a much better class of reel with certainly higher build quality (the Convector is a middle line reel and the Fathom is a high end reel) *Note* I looked for Shimano retrieve data but was unable to locate info on the 800/800LC. If I can find it later on, I will add it to this post by editing it in. Additional info on Fin-Nor reels. Fin-Nor makes super premium reels. Looking over their lineup, the OFL30 levelwind reel is very close in capacity to the Penn 340 GT2. It would be a top-shelf choice for 300-350' coppers offering a solid one-piece machined aluminum frame and an 11-disc stainless steel and carbon fiber drag washer system. It offers 34" of retrieve per turn of the handle. This equates to: 300' copper is 106 turns of the handle, and 350' copper is 124 turns of the handle.

To get into a decent reel on the cheap, look for some used large frame convectors and change the gears out using the high speed clarion gear set. While you have them apart, you can also upgrade to some quality aftermarket carbon fibre drags if the originals are tired.

On our trip described above, the curmudgeonly captain got his "proper pay" - his charter fee. Out of good will, we added in a modest tip on the first trip. The mate on the other hand arrived at the boat about one-and-a-half hours before the trip (as we did) and invited us aboard and got us settled in. Without asking, he slipped away into the cabin later to produce hot coffee and his wife's home-made from scratch cinnamon buns warmed drizzled with melting glaze. Throughout the day, he regularly anticipated our questions and needs in a way that rivaled MASH's Radar O'Riley. On the way out, he casually interviewed us to determine our experience levels and then coached the novices among our party in the various techniques we would be using that day. He had us practice tying up some rigs, taught us how to rig our baits, and coached us on the operation of the various rod/reel combos we would be using. He dried the morning dew off of every surface we might touch (he literally had a large plastic tote of towels he brought from home each day). In the few slow times between bites, he'd sing one of his fishing songs in Portugese to "regain favor with the fish gods". These were just some of the small things he did every day as part of his routine to make his captain's customers feel welcomed aboard and at home. It was his nature to be a gracious humble host and by the end of the trip we all felt like me had made a new friend in him. Considering his day started 90 minutes or so before the captain arrived (and literally walked on the boat and left the dock without even saying good morning to us) his day probably lasted 16-17 hours, 14 of which were on the boat with us making every effort to make our trip enjoyable as possible. That works out to be $12-13/hour. We would have paid him that even if his attentiveness and service to us was more basic and in fact we gave him the same tip on the second trip - though that time directly to him. I should also clarify that the five of us decided and agreed well in advance that our mate's tip would be $200 based on the length of the trip, and the captains tip, would be treated like we were being invited out on a friends boat and we'd cover the expenses, (like if we lost a lot of tackle that he would have to replace, or he had to run all over the place to find and keep us on fish using up a lot of extra gas). His charter fee would be his professional income. This has always worked well for us. One of us will ask the mate what he feels the expense was for any lost gear or tackle, and as fisherman we have a pretty good idea of what it costs to operate various boats. Any above the basic expenses will always get recompensed in the captains tip.

Yah sounds like a lot, but was 5 guys at $40 each so not that much considering this was a $1k all day offshore trip that started well before sunrise and we arrived back at the dock a bit after dinner.

One recommendation on tipping, I suggest you give the mate their tip directly, but do so in the presence of the captain. This keeps things on the up and up between you and the captain and their mate and avoids any hard feelings in the future if you return for another trip and one of the crew held out or lied to the other. Last summer I took a trip out of Truro and had some fantastic fishing. The captain was a cranky sob but the mate was fantastic. We had such a good time we gave the captain his charter fee plus a modest tip (due to his abrasive demeanor) and a separate $200 tip for the mate who was back at the boat cleaning up (we were at the car loading up). We had such a good time we later decided to extend our trip and take another trip with them. When we arrived, we found the mate in a decidedly poor mood. After a couple hours of a comparable cold shoulder from the mate I inquired if something was wrong and after a little prodding found out that the mate was disappointed with the twenty ($20) tip he got from us on the last trip. That's right, the captain skimmed 90% of our tip and told his mate that we only have him twenty and that the captain being a good guy have him another twenty out of his charter fee money. The captain was stiffing his mate at clients' expense and then giving money supposedly from his pocket to keep his mate happy thinking the captain was looking out for him. As you might imagine, the day was not too much fun and it all blew up once we returned to the dock. Shouting, F bombs, etc. mate quitting, being told by Mr. Personality (the captain) that he'd blackball us with every captain he knew for talking to the mate about the previous trip's tip. What we hoped would be another great day of fishing turned into one of the ugliest experiences of my life.

Poles response x2 In addition to answer your question, the regular release is used between your cable and ball. The stacker release is used above the regular release if you want to add a second rod to your downrigger. On down riggers with temperature probes where the probe is removable from the cable, like the Fish Hawk X4/X4D, the regular release goes between the cable and probe. On Cannon riggers that use the black plastic surface break for the autostop, place the release between the break and the probe/ball. With fixed coated cable temp probes like the Moore Subtroll, I would recommend a pinchpad type release on the ball. Moore's using the new Torpedo downrigger wire and antenna would use the stacker for botj the main release and a second stacker rod.