Rich s

All great causes Davy, Thanks for providing your service .. The last time I did the PHW, it was behind the hatchery. I know some drift boats have also contributed in the past and maybe DSR as well ? I think the DSR is advertising the event , where is it held this year ? Any Drift boats included as well ? I'd be interested in hearing some stories or pictures you may wish to share.. Good Luck , hope the weather /water & fish all play nice for these folks, THEY WELL DESERVE IT !! Rich

Gill, while I can sense your frustration (mine too), quite honestly I don't think you are being fair in asking a non-employee a stance in regards to their (DSR, NYS) views.. Maybe you should contact the source.. As well, what are you really asking ? For a State official to publicly say that the salmon returns are at a all time low , mid , or great level this year and or last ? That is what I would like to hear, from a state official based on data not internet reports.. If so , it's very low, what next ? More stockings or science to figure out why , I'd chose the latter myself.. If I recall the 2012 run of salmon (I wasn't fishing the lake at that time) was OFF the charts, 2013 was pretty darn good.. So what happened in these past 2 seasons that threw this a skew or do you feel 2013 and prior were terrible ? We just cant be jumping to success rates and dumping tons more predators into the foray without figuring out what's changed first , yea I know and read about 300,000 more lake trout but remember, their numbers were far below sustainable levels and given the extra pressure these past to seasons I'm sure took a huge hit.. Give the folks some time to examine the research, let the trawls bring in more information on the status of the ecosystem and then, yes If after attending the SOL meetings and published information is not suffice then, keep writing letters to the department officials but to call out someone who is just trying to relay , non public statements with information based on conversations with state officials is very un fair.. Rich

while I don't normally fish for them nor disagree with what your saying about your experience gambler but we caught tons of perch in the Mexico area this season when we were bored, the lake was to nasty to troll or just wanted bites.. My friend over by the Genny also noted what Davy said and he told me perch numbers were up.. Great conversation here folks and I value/absorb it all , data and opinions. Thank You : Rich

Wow, I about tapped out 3 pages ago.. United, agendas, livelihoods, economics , nobody cares.. Geesh, folks.. Seriously , isn't the state of the lake everyone's agenda ? It's this a fishery that requires great responsibility to meet all the above .. Has it not ? If not then how/ what would ? Haven't folks made livings off this fishery for many years and present ? Is it that bad now ? If anyone thinks they can do better then what has / is being done by the lake management then I suggest changing careers and jumping in.. Data is proof, it requires study, trawls and assessments. Opinions are not data, fish finders are not data .. I talked with surveys every week I went out of Mexico bay.. I watched many boats & charters blow them off. More kings, less steelhead, less char, no worries about anyone else but the bottom line, business , that's not untied.. sorry, it was just to peaceful in the woods today to give a fish thought.. Rich

Lol, I recall catching many lakers in the SR river while the season was closed .. The river was wild with chinooks and lakers but lacking in trout.. So glad for the 1 rainbow trout limit as I feel it was a real game changer in quantity .. I know , it made people upset over size VS quantity but man , I recall articles from the 80's saying the average steelhead was 6-8 lbs with legit teens common.. I don't think that has changed. What has seemed to change is that everyone wants to catch them, not just the freaks of old... Maybe I'm wrong but I would gladly take a self sustain fishery over a ton of stocked chinooks.. Of course I don't think the tribs are capable of that happening so we must rely on the lake management to do things in everyone interest , including the fishery.. I sure hope the balance of nature along with the reintroduction of cisco & herring plays out so the trout & char prosper.. Rich

Ps , Davy : I hear the laker fishing is great and I want to learn more I'm sure you are a man who wears many hats and I applaud you for that . Thanks again Rich

Excellent article and information.. THANK YOU for sharing... Much more helpful to prepare for next season.. Oh and I can now let the wife buy more shoes because I have more tackle to buy

Great response Davy and all so true.. I for one even with our dismal (sophomore ) success on the lake and lack of fish in the trib on my one and only trip, am not calling for heads or knee jerk reaction from the lake management team .. That as you said could lead to disaster, I feel data and trends are what is need to be evaluated before reacting to drastic. Hopefully it's just a back to back harsh weather pattern and things will recover in a more natural balance.. Maybe you read my Lake trout threads and questions / or not / but the Lake itself has many great opportunities for fishing other then salmon and I am excited to explore them as well.. Trolling does get boring to me no mater the species but we enjoy the lure of "big" fish and the surrounding area.. As for the tributary fishing, after 35+ years and guiding as well, I'm just plain burned out on the tribs.. While it's a fabulous fishery there is just no gas left in the tank there for me any longer.. Totally understand the theory of "players" VS fish hooked.. Its almost the same words I would tell clients, You will see many fish but catching the few willing is the reward, learning is the key.. We did only single handed fly on the swing with bunny leeches /comets & traditional salmon flies , what a blast seeing fish chase them down.. Be well , I always enjoy reading your thoughts, insight and real data information: Rich

Thanks Les, you put my mind at ease about not needing a TON of weight to reach the depths.. I feel much more confident in being able to strait line jig given the right conditions.. Seeing we will again be on the lake every single week next season, our opportunities will come.. I'm pretty set on my gear , I do think I will have 2 dedicated jig/live line drift rods set up just for lake trout.. Braid does seem the way to go as it's no stretch = instant sensitivity , we use it for jigging deep water on ice, it makes a world of difference .. As for rod & reels, I'm very confident in my bait runner spinning reels and really like the 9' 6-20lb rated ugly stick rod, I may just buy another to complete the pair.. That set up has handled chinooks and yes, 40 lb striped bass .. It's length and light action are an absolute blast when you get a big fish on the line.. To me its about playing the fish and not just "stiff arming" them in with over rated tackle.. Super excited now and cant wait , but first we got a TON of lake trout to jig through the ice using the short pole Rich Here is just one of the fish that this set up was successful in tackling

Very confusing, these chinooks we read that everything is pretty normal on the lake, we read how things are terrible on the lake. We read to much bait, not enough bait, sick bait (alewives).. Then it's time for the tribs to produce and we read, everything is normal (early) , then they stage and move in and out of the staging areas on the lake and a few fish enter the tribs and everything is normal (again).. Then nothing, we wait.. In and out they go (lake) so it's just a waiting game again.. Then some fish (coho) make a decent run and now everything is good again BUT where are the chinooks.. Tick tock goes the clock and while I fished the river (DSR -Pineville and ufz) on Oct-1 & 2 and found it to be severely lacking chinooks , the DSR was pitiful and the UFZ while had fish was nowhere near what I would think "should " be, Pineville (we walked well over a mile of water ) was pretty barren. Then the talk was, everything was late, then the "big" (if you call it ) push came on Columbus weekend and things were normal again , so to speak.. Now following from the arm chair, I read the reports from the DSR , fellow anglers and friends on the water and they have of recent been Lacking numbers of chinook .. The DSR reports are strange, good fishing upper run early, lower run later in day, well that leads to believe they move in in the evening but still only in small numbers.. Yes I have witnessed spawning in the lower river before and even experienced it in the undesired area of the estuary so what you are saying makes sense but still , with that, I have seen far better numbers of chinooks then what I seen this season.. So the unanswered questions still remain: Are the levels of chinook "normal" or are they low ? Is the thiamine affecting the chinook as well as the trout ? Are chinook just lying dead on the lake floor ? And finally the big question (tongue in cheek ) if they spawn in the gravel of the DSR , does the DSR now own those fish too (just kidding) Thanks for the report Davy and hope some of the questions can be answered. Rich

Yikes , 8-10 oz , almost a lb of weight , I'm not so sure I'm into that heavy with a light rod in hand . I have a 9' - 6-20lbb rated ugly stick spin rod which has handled live bait and 40 lb stripers but don't think it will work well on that heavy of weight jigging . I'd like to use 10-12 lb test line also although braid ( no stretch) might be better with a fluro leader If I need to go over a 4 oz lure or weight I think I would just set rod in holder and drift live bait

thanks for the insight and tips folks.. Much to think about in my planning. while often jigging lake trout in depths of 100-160fow it is through the ice and with minimal currents that I am experienced in. Having spent the entire summer on the great lake it was easy to understand that the currents and conditions would be the most difficult factors to over come.. In saying that I still feel it is something I wish to target.. My preference in trying to catch lake trout would be in the following order 1. straight line jig : I know it would be almost impossible to stay in 1 location (anchored) but I would like to give a straight line jigging with a heavy enough lure such as a diamond cod or squid jig a try.. Just not sure how heavy is enough, 2 oz ? 4oz ? heavier ? We typically use 3/8-1oz jigs in those depth on the ice but obviously minimal current.. I think if it requires something more then 4oz I may have to look at option #2 2. Live bait drift: we employ a 3 way slip sinker swivel when targeting striped bass on the tidal water of the Hudson river.. With this rig we may use up to 6 oz sinkers and whole live herring up to 12' long which will get them to the bottom (30fow) even in strong tidal currents.. I think if I used this tactic it may be effective on the great lake using shiners or other live baits. I understand that staying over a targeted area wouldn't happen but it seems that if I could get the bait to the bottom using a sinker instead of rigger it would allow me to cover water by just free floating.. This again would be a preferred method over trolling and allowing at least a lighter tackle. 3. Basic rigger trolling: totally understand this is the most effective method but really my least desired to target lake trout.. We did explore this just a little this season using hammerheads and spin/glow.. Didn't catch any but honestly only put little effort into this.. My goal as said is to catch them using typically light tackle and preferably spinning gear.. thanks again and please keep thoughts and tips coming. Rich

I believe the egg take ( coho ) will start on 15 th . Call hatchery to confirm

http://www.glfc.org/lakecom/loc/Lake%20Ontario_Lake_Trout_Strategy_Nov_2014.pdf

Hey folks Just put the boat to bed and am already thinking of next season.. I read the article about the Lake Trout restoration program and found it very informative.. I know some folks give them a bad rap and maybe can understand that trolling/catching them might be a bit of a lack of sporting (using that term loosely) but I find them to be a great fish and enjoy the heck out of catching them, especially through the ice or light tackle from a canoe.. The thing I really like is that they grow HUGE on the Great Lake.. I can totally see the over harvest on the great lake if that is what is needed to put people on fish but I seriously see a lack of that occurring if they are targeted wisely.. In the report it states the appropriate catch/ratio to maintain a self sustaining population. Right now, they have stocked an "extra" 300,000 to bring their levels up to what they feel par.. It also states that alewives are the biggest contributor (thiamine ) to their lack of reproduction levels.. Granted, they are a long living fish but do not reproduce until around age 7 so I fear without a good natural reproduction level the increased stocking may be necessary (I know, why not salmon).. As well I think with the added stocking of Cisco and the increased goby they may stand a chance if not over harvested.. It's a tricky balance to maintain the ecosystem of the sport fishery but still I feel the management group is doing an overall good job in Natural species VS introduced (salmon) .. To me this is most important .. Now that I've long winded you all, here are some thoughts to how I would like to approach fishing for them next season.. Jigging or just live bait drifting.. Thought and insight would be helpful.. I know the currents/wind and weather plays havoc out there but we have also had many calm days when we just shut the boat down and jump overboard , fun stuff. If we were to shut down over say 120fow and just drift do you think it would be feasible to use : 1. a sliding sinker rig of (2-5oz ) and live bait them off the bottom ? would we even reach the bottom given current ? I use this tactic when fishing stripers on the Hudson river (tidal) with whole herring for striped bass, granted it's usually 30fow or less. 2. Direct jigging using buck tail or plastic jigs.. How much would the jig need to weigh to reach bottom in again, 120 fow ? Thanks in advance of any help offered .. I'm already starting to plan ahead for next season in hopes of a giant laker. This one was caught using 4lb test on an ultra light fishing for brook trout

This is nothing new and has been in the past as well but yes the sneaky one is being the most restrictive http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.com/page/content.detail/id/535864/DEC-s-gag-order.html

Excellent , I love Data Thank You for sharing Rich

Thank you for posting that Rich

Strange , as some lakes there is an advisory as not to eat lake trout due to their increased ability to contain contaminates , being bottom dwellers.. I do find the low reproduction levels strange though on Lake Ontario, woulda figured it would be pretty good but was told they also suffer from thiamine deficiency causing the reproduction issues.. As for one of the lakes I fish, Lake George , NY , they thrive, grow large and it's all natural reproduction.. They do not stock them ..

You may be correct , I'm learning.. I was told the target was 1.4, honestly I don't know, and yes the increase to 1.9 was due to the coho.. I assumed (and wrong)about the lakers.. I was informed about the hatchery and funding problems on lake trout.. Also was told their reproduction (LT) rate is low which is shocking to me.. It was said the lake management is trying to bring their levels up to a sustainable level with the increased pressure and lower survival .. Again this is new to me and just some conversation in trying to gather information.. So far from my gathering and consensus is that the 2 extreme winters on the Y.O.U alewives has been the factor on the stress levels, thiamine levels of young salmon and steelhead.. I think a huge increase of chinook stocking would not be very wise in the long term right now. This cycle should play out in a few years or at least more data would be needed before a drastic change.. I know bloaters and herring were stocked as an alterative natural forage base (mainly Atlantic) which chinook will also benefit. Thanks for all the insight, comments and concerns from everyone.. Rich

Yankee: Did you know that in 2014, with the lower lake trout stocking and lack of coho, they DID increase the Chinook stocking from 1.4 million to 1.9 million ? That is a 500,000 increase in chinooks.. Yea maybe to late but yes they did put an increase in Chinook as an off set..

I'm sure most have read this but for those who haven't it's very informative http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/lopublic2012.pdf It will shed som light on the increase lake trout stocking Rich

This person is saying there was problems with the federal hatchery and funding in more recently 5 years or so ago. Personally I don't know and have no reason not to believe him. I know you guys are always watch and attending the SOL meeting and such so I just wondered . Thanks Rich

Ok thanks : It was brought to me by someone in the agency that said there was a reduction for quite some time and now this was to off set. Was there a reduction in lake trout stocking ? Rich