Lucky13

Yea, they'll just crank them out with a 3D printer. Browns spawn in the fall, so unless DEC has a whole bunch of surplus at one their hatcheries, where will they come from? They have not raised fish from eggs at Powdermill since back when Ken Ruedin ran the hatchery, DEC gives them fingerlings to raise.

There's a new sheriff in town. From the May MCFAB minutes: "Lt. Bruce Hummel reported on Law Enforcement efforts on the lower Genesee River during the fall of 2017. For 2017, officers were enlisted from all 11 Counties in Region 8. He said that two officers worked the river in 2016 and together wrote approximately 70 tickets. In 2017, the details issued 188 tickets. After meeting with an Assistant District Attorney to discuss problems that had occurred in the past, Lt. Hummel assigned an ECO to be in court for all the tickets written in Rochester, even at arraignment, which they are normally not required to attend. Individuals who had been charged had the option of pleading at arraignment or going to trial. DEC had a suggested fine structure. The details were effective in getting out the word that DEC was watching the river. Region 8 plans to repeat the effort in 2018 with a more comprehensive data collection effort. He said that EC law allows a fine of up to $250.00 for ECL violations, although because there is also a state surcharge, fines are usually lower than the maximum. A question was asked about alleged “commercial operations” and he reported that while they observed individuals that were taking many fish, the possession limits make it difficult to apprehend people for this as they can have two days limits in possession. There were usually 5 or 6 individuals associated with the vehicles, so they generally had to have more than 35 salmon to be over the limit. They would like to catch some of these operators but are limited in having to identify a buyer at the eventual destination, and the need to track the vehicle as it travels cross state. He estimated that it would require a full time investigator at least 6 months to make a case. He also mentioned that in the City of Rochester there is a large amount of paperwork associated with writing a ticket, as they are required to file a prisoner data report, 4 copies of a supporting deposition, and an arrest report. While this is a lot of additional work, if the ticketed person does not appear in court, an arrest warrant is issued, which all City Police see if they stop the individual for something else. He added that EnCon Law is always happy to respond to callers, and the hotline is 877-457-5680, or an individual ECO can be contacted with the phone numbers included on the DEC website or in the fishing guidebook. "

The fish are difficult to catch, that’s what makes them gamefish. They are a lot easier to catch if people are not standing in the middle of the river right on top of them, and if people are trying to catch them rather than manipulating large amounts of lead to get it up close to the head, and then yanking, or running short drifts through the standing waves so the line gets caught in their teeth, and then yanking. Changing this will require shaming the unethical fisherman, currently a near impossibility during the salmon run, or ticketing, which Region 8 has committed to doing, lets get the other regional LE guys on board. It would help to have some strong statements from NYSDEC fisheries. And I would hope to never again see a picture of a charter captain in a pirate hat “helping” with egg take by lifting hens for NYSDEC staff!!

Thank you very much, Gambler. I have all this bookmarked but never thought of it as a meeting summary, just the summary of the full annual report to the GLFC. If you look at section 9 of the full report (http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/lorpt17.pdf) Figure 7 indicates that the 5 year and older steelhead have nearly disappeared from what reaches the hatchery. Maybe the “larger fish” genes have just been eliminated from the gene pool. No arguments from me about the ”shyteshow” in September- early October, Rick, but even with patrols assigned to the Genesee last year from all over Region 8, the circus was still going strong. As long as the higher ups in Albany (higher up than NYSDEC) want to sell NYS to every outsider who wants to come and play whatever game they want, we’re going to see more of the same. And the river guides up in P-town don’t help a lot, most of them just teach the west coast sockeye lining technique as necessary for kings, and when the salmon are done and the chrome show up early, like last October, the ‘bows are just more fodder for the cooler for these rippers. The only saving grace there is that most of the yahoos at least follow the one fish limit, but they can certainly put a hurting on a lot of fish with those methods. As to the perceived “ fight,” I only pointed out the data that is out there about harvest, I would love to see everyone working together for improvement of the fishery, and especially the ethics.

State of the Lake Meeting Minutes? I have my notes, and the LO unit annual reports, but have never seen recaps of the meetings.

The contention made by Gambler was that the decline in large 'bow attributable to increased popularity of tributary angling. The data that is out there indicates that 86% of steelhead caught in the Salmon River are released and slightly less than 50% of steelhead reported in the boat survey are released. Gambler's "theory" is that mortality is caused by C+R. Mine is that large fish stay out in the lake for a year or more longer and now are finding less to eat, hence, lower peak size. There were a lot of Steelhead in the tribs last year and large numbers of dropbacks into May in the Salmon and June in the Niagara, so C+R does not automatically result in mortality. I think the important data for this fall will be the age of all the Salmon that are filling everyone's boxes. Are they robust two year olds, Steve Lapan’s” eating machines capable of growing to 30+ lbs” or are they scrawny three year olds that have to work hard to find those big baitballs before they can get a meal. If the former, happy days are here again, if the later, it might be time to cut stocking even further, or risk a collapse at worst, and at best a slow decline to Michigan sized fish.

I've never seem any analysis of LO steelhead that indicates age and prior spawning status of Larger chromers. West Coast fish don't grow a lot after returning to the ocean, the large size fish stay off shore for additional years. Our fish don’t have as far to travel, and no sea lions or seals, so Folks at DEC think they can grow a little more and return, but I think the outsize fish are just ones that stayed out in the soup eating for an additional year. Many of the ones that got photographed and weighed left the gene pool, and over time maybe we’re developing a smaller strain. Or they burn more off between meals because the meals are fewer.

But according to the Tributary angler surveys, most steelhead caught in the tributaries are released. According to the Charter Boat Survey, more than half of the steelhead caught out on the Lake are kept. It will be interesting to find out when all the mid teens kings hit the hatchery whether they are big two year olds, which would say there is lots of bait, or smaller three year olds that have been growing more slowly in the face of less to eat. We are also not seeing the mid 40's kings anymore, and even 30's seem pretty rare. You can't blame that on increased tributary pressure.

Since the Seneca River gets its flows from the outflow of both Seneca and Cayuga lakes, unless water runs up hill without a pump, there should be no impact. Need to know pesticide to determine long term impacts downstream, but the herbicides used in water are usually not long lastng.

When Detroit starts flooding, you will want to tighten up the straps on your lifejacket. And it will still be a while before it gets down through Erie. http://lre-wm.usace.army.mil/ForecastData/DailyLevelsEnglish.pdf

If there is so much bait out there, why are the fish being so suicidal on metal spoons this year? Or are there too many salmonids even for a HUGE bait population? 

Gobies are very different fish from alewife with very different regs. What you said was it was illegal to catch or transport alewife, and you posted with a finality that implied that you are an "authority," and said " Read the regs." You posted incorrect information, perhaps you should reread the regs yourself. For anyone who is interested in CORRECT information, here is the link to the pages in the guide. http://www.eregulations.com/newyork/fishing/baitfish-regulations/

Please quote from the regulations where it says that. It is perfectly legal to use alewife for bait, but only in a listed number of waters. They can also be transported, but only within defined corridors. You can harvest your own, but only using listed methods. If there is so much bait out there, why are the fish being so suicidal on metal spoons this year? Or are there too many salmonids even for a HUGE bait population?

Rudd (from Wikipedia) If they are all red looking, they may be goldfish, which grow quite large when released to the wild.

From the website: "DEC manages over 395 boating and fishing access facilities. We do our best to keep these sites clean and safe, but if you see something that is out of order or have a question or concern about a particular site, send a message to [email protected]." That site is remote in terms of watchful eyes, but easily accessed from the Parkway. I think leaving a boat there unattended would be very risky. I know from experience in the Adirondacks that is against the law to store personal property on State Land. I also know that State Fishing Access sites do not allow overnight camping, which includes sleeping in your car or on your boat. So my guess is that, aside from the risk of vandalism to the boat, you might also be risking a ticket. The Lakeshore property owners out there are fair piece away, but it only takes one to make a phone call, and they are very jealous about their privacy and property rights. But the link above should get you a definitive answer.

I think how you perceive lake trout is dependent on where you catch them. I had one from Cayuga a while back caught in cold weather and cleaned right out of the water, and then baked on a rack, and it was delicious. Lake Ontario lakers, not so much. One thing I disagree on is frying, trout and salmon are oily fish, and breading and frying traps that oil and if it oxidizes, the flavor goes south. Baked on a rack, or wrapped in foil with some citrus and white wine on the grill, Yum!

I got most of my information from a Regional Fisheries Manager. He emphasized that brined bait or salted has to come from a commercial dealer to insure adequate treatment, and that it is the concern for disease that led to the regulations. But I am sure you are right, these guys have nothing better to do than sit around at night and deviously think up regulations just to make your life miserable! I travelled to Quebec to fish for red trout in 1976. It was not legal to sell minnows or transport bait in that Province then, and you had to buy an additional license to catch your minnows in the lake where you used them. So it is not new, just new here. Introduction of pickeral to Kayuta Lake in the upper Black River nearly wiped out the Brook trout, and introduction of Pike into the Fulton Chain has put a dent in the trout and Atlantic Salmon fisheries there,IMO. Gobies were banned as bait in an attempt to stop their spread into non-connected waterbodies. It was known that they would spread to Cayuga once they were in Lake Ontario, but if it was legal to catch and use them for bait, they would likely be in Lamoka and Waneta and down the Susquehenna by now, because someone would know better than DEC. Ring any bells? I have an idea on where you could keep your receipt, but I don't want to get the Moderators going.

You might sing a different tune if a disease gets into the system you like to fish and wipes out your favorite target. One bait bucket can wipe out a brook trout pond, a few pike in a trout lake and you can often kiss that good trout fishing goodbye. Underbrined bait that has some disease that kills pacific salmon, maybe you can kiss that fishery goodbye. Thank you for you concern for the fishery and your fine sense of sportsmanship! You might want to consider that ENCON reads these websites, so bait checks on boats might be more common in the future. I'd keep that mythical receipt.

https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/74079.html http://www.eregulations.com/newyork/fishing/baitfish-regulations/