Lucky13

3 (trout & Salmon in any combination, no more then 2 Rainbow and steel minimum length: 15" except 21" for the rainbow and 1 Atlantic salmon 25" min and 2 lake trout ( no more than I between 25" and 30")

So millions in Lake Ontario communities taking drinking water from the Lake should compromise the quality of their drinking water for the convenience and enjoyment (and personal benefit) of a few (how many really, especially in relation to all that are using the lake, not just for drinking, but for industrial and other recreational uses that are impacted by filthy nearshore water), or subsidize the fishery by paying higher treatment costs? As to raising the nutrient levels, way back in the 90's when these levels started to hit the 10 µg/L target set for offshore waters (which says to me that nutrient levels have been adequate to support this "world class" fishery for quite a while, while still meeting the goals) there was a hue and cry from the "commercial livery" fishing community, and a suggestion at one meeting for a sort of grass roots movement to haul PO4 fertilizers out to deep water to dump them. I believe it was the Fish Doctor that was working for DEC at the time, and did a quick dimensional analysis, and indicated that if every boat on the lake hauled a 40 lb bag out every day, this would not raise the deep lake concentration even 1 µg/L. The picture is a lot more complex than just the nutrient loading, PO4 fate now that we have Dreissenids filtering it off and leaving it sequestered at the bottom in pseudofeces, the disappearance of Diporea in much of the lake, shifts in the weather patterns (or Climate Change for those who prefer), likely some factors even the "Pros from Dover" have not put their collective fingers on yet. It should also be understood that there is raw sewage going into the lake in many places even with all the pollution control efforts. Even the Monroe County Pure Waters Combined Sewage Overflow Abatement Project, which reduced untreated wet weather discharges to the Genesee River from " every rain event from 38 discharge points" to, on average, one discharge per year per discharge point, at least until these more intense rain events of the last few years, lets combined sewage and stormwater go when it does discharge; it is simply too expensive to build a collection and treatment system that captures events of a frequency of less than the ten year storm. And manure (animal sewage) is still routinely spread on frozen ground and then runs off to streams all over the watershed, and large amounts of chemical fertilizers are used on crops for which USDA has not developed maximized application rates, look at the loading to Oak Orchard from areas like the Elba muck. The Canadians around Toronto have been ahead of this country on Non Point Source Control, a lot of New York Communities sought out their input years ago, and they are working on Point Sources as well, but the area has been " booming" in population growth. which greatly complicates infrastructure planning and construction. In the Finger Lakes, I'm hearing a lot of concern for increasing nutrient levels in Seneca, Cayuga and Canandaigua, and at the same time in Seneca a lot of complaining about a decline in the fishery, and concerns about the other lakes. And, last I heard, the major uncontrolled nutrient source for Erie is the Maumee River, just upstream from Toledo, how is that working for drinking water there?

Too bad we can't get a lot of the tributary "anglers" to adopt this practice!

If you are still considering the upper Genesee, the current issue of NY Outdoor News ( mine came yesterday, it will be on the newsstand in a week or so) back page article has a nice feature with a map of the PFR upstream from Belmont, and a little more detail; on fishing down there. Lots ( ~ 18 miles) of public access, no boat necessary. I'm very partial to the Adirondacks, but I may be checking out this area this year, as it is a lot less driving, so I can do a day trip where I have to camp if I go up north.

His "young boys" are 14 and 16, and should be capable of handling a canoe with proper instruction, and if it has capacity for three. But it always a wise decision to scout new flowing water before boating it, and make some decisions on where to float and where to line or carry.

I have since seen that, and, yes, it will be a real hit to the brook trout ponds in the mountains. It will mean additional fish in some waters that are already infected with mussels, but I doubt DEC would truck fish that far, or stock them into the upper river as I have heard nothing of mussels above Letchworth (they could theoretically be below Letchworth due to impact from Conesus outlet and Hemlock outlet). But Jimski used the plural (hatchery closures), and I have only heard about Rome. It does kind of point out the need for some redundancy in raising sites, and if they can't clean up Rome or get away from the Delta Lake water source, maybe that become a new "Caledonia for Kings", but I'm not sure where they could put more brook trout culture. And kings raised in Rome are not going to be looking for west end water although they won't be imprinted on the Salmon River. Who knows, they could end up attempting to get to the Hudson and the NYC and NJ guys would not have to travel so far they could troll the East River!(Totally tongue in cheek!)

Stay above Wellsville, or even Belmont, and there are lot of trout, some good ones. Downstream to Portageville is great smallmouth water. Below that you're into Letchworth and although Region 9 has that section included in their diary program, I have no idea how you would access it. Hatchery closures?

There are quite a few places in the Adirondacks where your cell phone will be useless, although there are more towers every year. That is one of the attractions of the Moose River Plains, you can get back in quite a distance on the network of old roads. In any spot on the east coast, it is difficult to guarantee lots of fish or big fish, unless you want to camp out on a charter boat in Lake Ontario, which could get a little pricey for three days!

They might be great places to camp and fish, but I think you might be speeding if you could get to either of those spots in 6 hours from Rochester NY!

Lots of variables: Primitive camping where you haul or filter your water, and maybe have an outhouse or dig your own catholes, or a less primitive facility where there are bathrooms and showers, but also more neighbors and some 4 legged ones possible (bears); level of fishing experience of you or the kids; additional equipment you have or might have to get, like waders if you want to stream fish, etc; tent or do you have a pop-up or RV, just for starters. For a primitive experience that time of the year, I like the Moose River Plains in the western Adirondacks, you can fish the Moose River and the road holes on tributaries, or hike to many of the ponds. The fishing is fair from shore, if you can cast far enough and are patient and they start biting you can catch some nice brookies. However, you are 10-15 miles in from anything so you have to bring it all, water included, and washing equipment as it is outhouses only (and I recommend bringing some lime to " sweeten" them up), and as it is a 15 mph speed limit dirt road, high clearance on the vehicle is a good idea. There is no fee to use this area but you will need to get a permit via mail from the local ranger for a stay of more than three nights. For a less rigorous experience where you can access shopping or food, Nick's Lake outside of Old Forge is popular, and the lake is two story, so while there are trout, there are also bass and panfish. There may be canoe rentals available as well. Eighth Lake is good, although shore fishing by the campground is limited, there are spots if you hike up the lake and a trail to Bug and Eagles Nest lakes, which are trout ponds. If you want to try stream fishing, the other side of the mountains features the West Branch of the Ausable River, possibly the best trout stream east of the Rockies, and, while a lot of the anglers frequent the boulder sections which are very slick and slippery, and flyfish, there are some more placid stretches that are less difficult to wade or can be fished from shore, and I know a lot of folks who do very well on inline spinners and smaller minnow plugs, and the Lake Everest section above the Wilmington Dam produces some large fish to crawler fishing. There is a large private camping facility or the State campground, both right on the river, and it is not too far to Lake Placid or other spots if you need another activity on a rainy day. If trout and a forested area are not a priority, the campground at Fairhaven allows you to fish on the Lake Ontario side off the pier or in the pond, and there are panfish, bass, and pike, lots of spots to shore fish. My dad took my brothers and me there when we were kids (a century or so ago LOL!) and we always caught some fish, but I know people who are out there all the time still because they can catch lots of large pannies in the pond. If you already have an idea of where you want to camp and it is in NYS, go to the DEC website fishing page and check out the Places to Fish page for the county of your choice and sites near to where you want to be will be featured. http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/7749.html

Sorry, Jerry, you lost me there, I was referring to the flooding of the subway systems, fairly recently. If people really thought in those terms of possible high water, we'd all be living south of Ridge Road.

Don't you mean "again." The subways flooded on a Nor'easter a few years back.

Maybe for same reason that the Kardashians are everywhere on the internet, and Stormy Daniels was out there getting indignant about the Prez! And, enough hits, there be some money there! There is a reason it is called Fishporn!