Lucky13
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Everything posted by Lucky13
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I was taught to be efficient and helpful, not just always be wise a** stroking my own ego!
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Since you are already at the west end, you might learn a LOT Saturday from 11 to 2 from DEC or anytime from other presenters at the above function. As to Lures in the tributaries which include ALL streams (yes, even Cowsucker Creek!) that flow to Lake Ontario upstream to the first barrier impassable by fish (and not all streams have them). As Sk8man says, read the little book you got when you bought your license ( you did buy a license, I hope!). This is from the website regulations guide (http://www.eregulations.com/newyork/fishing/special-regulations-great-lakes-tributaries/) Lake Ontario tributary seasonal fishing regulations Seasonal fishing regulations apply September 1 to March 31. Fishing hours Fishing from one-half hour after sunset to one-half hour before sunrise is prohibited except in the Black River (Jefferson County) from Lake Ontario upstream to the Route 180 bridge in Dexter, where fishing is permitted at all times. Hook, leader and weight regulations Hooks: Only one hook with a single hook point is permitted, except as outlined below for floating lures and artificial flies. Hooks attached to any lure must be free-swinging, except on an artificial fly (see Definitions). An artificial fly (Definitions) can only have a single hook with no more than two hook points. Tandem artificial flies are not permitted. The gap between a hook’s shaft and point cannot exceed one-half inch. Use of hooks with added weight is prohibited, except artificial flies (Definitions) and jigs weighing no more than one-eighth ounce. Floating lures: A floating lure is a lure that floats at rest in water with or without any weight attached to the lure, leader or line. Can have multiple treble hooks. Any hooks on a floating lure must be attached to the lure by a ring or swivel except for artificial flies. The distance between the body of a floating lure and the points of any attached hooks shall not exceed one and one-half inches. Leaders and weights: The distance between the hook, artificial fly or lure and any weight attached to the line or leader, whether fixed or sliding, shall not exceed four feet. Any weight added to the line, leader, swivels, artificial fly or lure shall not hang lower than the hook when the line or leader is held vertically. Lower Niagara River regulations can be found on Great Lakes & Tributary Regulations. Salmon River regulations can be found on below. Lake Ontario Waters and Tributaries Exempted from Seasonal Tributary Regulations The following regulations apply except those listed in the table below: Water County Applicable Regulations Niagara River Erie & Niagara Upper Niagara River or Lower Niagara River regulations apply Round Pond, Buck Pond, Long Pond, Cranberry Pond, and Irondequoit Bay Monroe Lake Ontario regulations apply Sodus Bay Wayne Lake Ontario regulations apply South Sandy Pond Oswego Lake Ontario regulations apply Sections of Lake Ontario Tributaries Subject to Seasonal (Sept. 1 to Mar. 31) Regulations The following tributary sections are subject to seasonal fishing regulations described below during the period September 1 to March 31: Water County Portion of Tributary Subject to Special Regulations Eighteenmile Creek Niagara From the Route 18 bridge upstream to Burt Dam Oak Orchard Creek Orleans From the first power lines that are 1.9 miles upstream (south) of Route 18 bridge upstream to Waterport Dam Genesee River Monroe From the State Route 104 Bridge upstream to the Lower Falls. Sterling Creek Cayuga From Old State Road to impassable barrier upstream of Route 104A Sterling Valley Creek Cayuga From McIntyre Road to impassable barrier upstream of Route 104A Oswego River Oswego From the Utica Street bridge upstream to the Varick Dam Catfish Creek Oswego From the mouth upstream to dam at County Route 1 Black River Jefferson From the upstream tip of the lowermost island to Mill Street dam in Watertown All other tributaries All From the bridge closest to the mouth upstream to first barrier impassable by fish Examples of Legal Seasonal Fishing Rigs
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DEC to Feature New Angler Outreach Programs at 2020 Greater Niagara Fishing and Outdoor Expo Jan. 17 - 19 Biologists to Host Open House and Present Updates on Status of Lake Erie and Lake Ontario Fisheries The New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) invites the public to check out its Bureau of Fisheries' expanded angler outreach programs at the upcoming Greater Niagara Fishing and Outdoor Expo, Jan. 17 to 19, at the Niagara Falls Conference and Event Center. "DEC is pleased to increase our outreach efforts at this year's Niagara Fishing and Outdoor Expo," said DEC Commissioner Basil Seggos. "This event provides an excellent opportunity for anglers to interact directly with the biologists who study and manage our Great Lakes and inland fisheries, and to talk one-on-one with fisheries managers about a variety of topics. New York offers numerous world-class fishing opportunities, and we invite anyone interested to come and learn more about the incredible sportfishing in New York's Great Lakes region and beyond." Freshwater fishing in New York State is thriving and generates significant economic benefits to local economies. In 2017, anglers fished more than 3.1 million days on New York's open Great Lakes waters, and an additional 850,000 days on Great Lakes tributaries. The combined economic impact exceeded $152 million in angler expenditures en route to and at fishing destinations. Anglers fished more than 1.3 million days on the Finger Lakes in 2017, generating a combined $29.9 million in expenditures. In addition to its annual informational booth at the event, DEC will host abbreviated versions of the fisheries "State of the Lake" meetings for Lake Erie and Lake Ontario that are typically held in March and May. Meetings will feature emerging results about walleye movement, creel survey results, habitat work, prey base, and record catch rates. Key members of Lake Erie and Lake Ontario fisheries management and research community will present information on management and assessment activities for prominent lake and tributary sport fisheries. Meeting times are: State of Lake Ontario Fisheries meeting - Friday, Jan. 17, 6 to 7 p.m. State of Lake Erie Fisheries meeting - Friday, Jan. 17, 7 to 8 p.m. Billed as a top attraction at this year's expo, DEC will host a unique "Open House" program on Saturday, Jan. 18, from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m., during which expo attendees can talk one-on-one with subject matter experts on a variety of the State's fisheries management topics, including: Lake Ontario - open lake; Lake Ontario tributaries and Salmon River; Lake Erie and tributaries; Niagara River; St. Lawrence River; Great Lakes fish production and stocking; Finger Lakes; Recruiting more women to fishing; Trout stream management; and Environmental Law Enforcement. To learn more about this event, visit the Niagara Fishing Expo website. http://www.dec.ny.gov/press/press.html
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Lures are limited in LO tribs for much of the year, must have a free swinging single point hook, except a 1/8 or less oz jig, or a floating lure. You are best to Study the regulations guide to become familiar with what is kosher and not kosher, and when. Probably the easiest way to start is with a spinning rod and float, distance between the float and bait determined by the approximate depth of the run you choose to fish, and salmon eggs or artificial bait, like yarn or plastics, or beads, and enough shot to sink them to the depth allowed by the float. Try these links for more info. http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/62202.html http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/37926.html
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New Gun laws getting voted on tomorrow in NY
Lucky13 replied to fisherman21's topic in Big / Small Game
The requirement that a fire arm purchaser have a hunting license reveals a complete ignorance of the reason for the second amendment on the part of the bill's sponsor(s). A "well regulated militia" is what threw King George out when he became too tyrannical. While your .30-.06, or even an AK, are hardly going to win out over an A-10, the opportunity to fight tyranny is still there. Totally disarmed, like the German and Poles under the Nazis, not so much. Hun ting, and personal protection, are just side benefits of the amendment. I would hope that even the Emperor would be able to see that the court challenges to much of this will result in declarations of unconstitutionality and involve great expense to the state, and will not sign them to save some money. -
New Gun laws getting voted on tomorrow in NY
Lucky13 replied to fisherman21's topic in Big / Small Game
Take a look at San Francisco, that is what we will be seeing here in a few years. Car Break ins under $950.00 in value result in no action and release of the perpetrator. Smash and grab cases require the car owner to prove that the car was locked, in California, your property is no longer your property, We in NYS are not far behind. -
When I lived there in the seventies, the Johnson City Wastewater Treatment Plant would blow out to the river with great regularity, and there would be advisories posted to not handle or especially eat fish from the "urban" side of the river downstream to Owego. I would think DEC would have mandated upgrades in the intervening 40-50 years. But you are downstream from large agricultural areas, so , along with the mud, you could also encounter manure runoff, and if the Susq was muddy, it had been raining somewhere upstream recently, in dry spells it still flows very clear (based on being down there last spring, and also using the Genesee as a reference for clarity). I'm told access is more difficult than it used to be, but where is that NOT the case? Too bad you picked a poor conditions day. -
The Edgemere Drive area storm and sanitary sewer system has been overtaxed by illicit sump pump connections from individual basements for years, and sewage has been discharged to the land surface, the lake and the ponds on many occasions regardless of Lake level, virtually any rainstorm of over 1" will cause problems down there. Edgemere Drive is a sandbar, part of the floodplain that likely will be underwater in less than 100 years just from glacial isostatic rebound, and those properties should have never been developed. Much of the lakefront in Parma and west was originally just tent platforms that were then gradually built up to houses. Before retirement, I would routinely get called out to investigate odors, and we would find another straight pipe just discharging to the lake. When you build a house or put a dock on the floodplain, once in a while the floodplain will be on the house or dock. -
You have finally hit the nail on the head, this is the attitude of NYS Lake Ontario shoreline property owners, and especially boating fishermen and "professional" aquatic Uber drivers, also known as charter captains!
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I'm sure that the droppies eat their share of King Fry when they hatch out of the redds and start growing , if the droppies are still in the river. I have never seen a 'bow digging in a salmon redd, but I watched one herd a large hen brown trout once, and take a shot at her abdomen every time she lined up the way the 'bow wanted, and then drop back to eat the eggs that got pushed out from the gut shot. -
I'm sorry for your losses, but I am just stating facts in here. If the cottage has been threre for 80n years it was flooded before the seaway, and with a similar "perfect storm" of precip in the watershed and high inflow from the Upper Great Lakes, it will be flooded again. As I have stated before, one former member of the Board of Control, Dr. Frank Scirimamano, was an outspoken critic of 2014, which is why he is a former member, and has still stated that the conditions of the last three years were not a byproduct of the plan and would have occurred under the older regulation plans and would have occurred prior to the Seaway. I agree with what you are saying , pointed it out at the public meetings prior to the original plans and the final version of 2014, even got agreement in principal from NYSDEC, but IJC makes those decisions and it is their cost benefit analysis, not mine. That is where people's energies need be directed. But please remember that a huge component of Ontario's electricity comes from the Power projects on the river, so they will be resisting shutting off all their lights. And it is possible that there are not similar issues on the Ontario side of LO because they had more sensible land use policies and did not allow people to build in areas where they might get flooded. Please also understand that as a non lakeshore resident, I am also feeling pain because the emperor of NYS has decreed that all residents will subsidize the property owners by paying for the damages to these lake side properties even though our public trust doctrine stops at tidewater and we do not enjoy the shoreline access afforded to residents of the upper GL.
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LEs et al are correct, zigging and zagging always seems to up my strikes, and a lot of times it is on the turns when the lure accelerates. There should be plenty of targets out there, they stocked 30 K LLS and 30 K rainbows last year, those are high numbers for either species in a "smaller" inland lake. -
Actually, if I had my druthers, either there would be a team of three ECO's at every pool cleaning out the yawkers, or the river could be closed during the Salmon run. But I have seen NO DATA from anyone to indicate that the spawning population is in any way impacted by the current circus. If too many fish enter a spawning tributary, later spawners just eradicate the redds of the earlier fish, in the same way that uneducated waders do in the Finger Lakes. If I wanted that year round steelhead and AS fishery, I would be out clamoring for an increase in king stocking to 1980 levels, no surer way to collapse the bait than to put way too many predators out there. But the bounce back might not happen in what is left of my lifetime.
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From what I have been hearing from a friend up there who frequents LG for lakers, you may want to be looking for open water, as he is talking about fishable ice very soon, and a good deal of the Adirondacks is already locked up. But if you are in Lake George, you have a better handle on that than I or he. My experience is limited under the ice, but the Landlocks are generally at the surface. Beyond that, the guys I know from the Fulton Chain look for areas that will concentrate bait, like steep drop-offs, humps and islands, and then they either parallel or set perpendicular with their tip ups, so I would guess that trolling areas like that would work as well. I would not get wedded to the slow speed however, landlocks and rainbows can both be taken at very high speeds, so I would try faster unless slow is producing right off the bat. And in the spring, they seem to be attracted to the wash, so running a short line 30 or so feet behind the boat could be productive if the longer lines don't produce. Tandem streamers could also be hot, and you can't beat a Sutton 44 or a Mooselick wobbler for Landlocks.
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I've seen Rick at many meetings, and he has always had well thought out arguments that he presented in a rational and polite manner, even if I disagreed on some things, so I see nothing in what he, or Matt, are saying that I would consider "tongue in cheek." And I doubt my friend who is carrying a 500K mortgage on a temporary housing property he bought in Pulaski for his wife and he to run would be any more enthralled over being told he can't rent rooms during 15% or so of the season that was his historical peak, anymore than a charter operator would like being told to leave the trolling gear home for two months in the summer. Like Les, I try to use the emojis when I am cracking a "funny."
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So the other half of the license buying public from the East Coast will be totally justified in asking for a closure of the fishery on the big lake from July 1st to, oh, maybe October 1st, both to insure that those salmon that have stopped actively pursuing bait to prepare for spawning can make it into the river, and to protect the steelhead and skippers that are being wantonly killed by C+R due to the choice of heavy junk lines necessary to reach the fish in those months, or least as far as the argument has gone recently?
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A historical fact that seems to be being completely ignored in this discussion is that the seaway was built for shipping and hydropower generation. So that shipping and hydropower get major consideration in recent operation is only the way that it should be as that was the justification for the expenditure for the project to begin with. That some lakefront property owners enjoyed flood control benefits from the narrowed range of lake stage that obtained from the opening in 1959-60 until recently is lagniappe, a 'little extra', but was not the primary intended purpose of the project. Certainly, when fiscal compensation for high water damages came up in discussion with an IJC commissioner, she indicated that the prior benefits received by the maintenance of lower levels had already compensated lake shore owners.
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Tributary groups like TU et al have supported and suggested closing Orwell and Trout during the Salmon and Steelhead runs for years, no one else has chimed in in support. DEC has a fair amount of money invested in Public Access easements on those tribs. And they are also popular with the locals as Brook Trout fisheries in the headwaters in the warmer months. I would be extremely surprised to see a LO fish in the upper easement on Trout, which is really just a step across stream, and unless there has been a really big rain, there is no way for a LO fish to navigate the shallows in the headwaters. If you had any data that indicated that spawning was being negatively impacted by the sections of the SR that are currently open, it would be helpful to your case. But the netting that is done along the mainstem of the SR in the spring indicates massive hatches of YOY kings in all the reports I recall. Recruitment is another story, but that is not impacted by the "jalormes" of September. Better numbers on relative contribution of spawned YOY's will be forthcoming after the next clip study. Please also remember that DEC has closed sections of the river in the past, and except for the C+R section of the fly zones, all of the river from Altmar upstream, is always closed, and, according to Steve LaPan, and conformed by Troy Creasy at the Pulaski bait meeting, that is where last fall's run (or what was left after the lakeside slaughter of spring summer 2019) ended up, crammed in like sardines.
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I doubt he was running from Otisco Lake to the St Lawrence to fish in the same night. Since he lives in Binghamton, it is a safe bet that he is referring to either the Susquehanna or the Chenango. There is good musky fishing in the Susquehanna that he could get tired of, great smallmouth fishing, and lots of walleyes, although, as he is saying, not too many monsters. There is no reason the muskies could not swim up the Chenango, either. Finally, since he is speaking of shore fishing, walking along casting lures, I go with those two as there are numerous places to access and walk the shoreline on both, the SL, not so much that I am aware of.
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"Stepping back a bit from this thread I have to admit this is the closest thing I have seen on here in the way of a truly intellectually based argument with supportive data for each side of it. Too bad our elected officials, the IJC and other decision makers haven't done their "homework" to this extent regardless of the "correct" interpretation" Les, I attended nearly all the public meetings that were held in the Rochester Area prior to implementation of 2014. The background data collection and analysis was handled by some of the top hydrologists/ hydraulic engineers in the world. And there were two prior iterations of 2014 that were rejected, before this plan was developed. Even Dr. Frank Sciramamano, who was on the Board of Control and was a vigorous and outspoken critic of 2014, has stated that the water levels of the last three years were NOT caused by 2014, and in fact were lower than would have occurred without the Dam and seaway project, and that under the prior plan, identical conditions would have obtained because of the limitations on discharge caused by the Ottawa River " freshet" and the impacts of discharge on the ponded areas downstream in the river. The Lakeshore property owners predicted damages would occur, and no one disagreed at these public meetings, occasional higher water would obtain under the plan and the "wrong" wind event could cause problems. Derek Glance, who was the IJC commissioner appointed by President Obama, told me when I spoke to her that the additional damages were mitigated by the additional protections lakeshore landowners had received from the earlier plan, which kept the levels in the narrower range, and I protested that that was NOT going to console a person standing in their living room in ankle deep water. At one meeting where a lakefront owner asked about compensation for damages, Don Zelazny, Great Lakes Section chief for the NYSDEC Division of Water, agreed that some mechanism for compensation needed to be identified and put in place, but that didn't occur before the plan was adopted, and the IJC did not see that as their mandate. It is a fact that if you build on a floodplain, occasionally the flood plain will be on what you built. IMO, this is not such a problem on the Canadian side because the localities in Canada have not allowed construction so close to the shore, but tax revenue is a heavy temptation for the mini governments of our home rule state, and the courts in NYS have apparently decided that the public trust doctrine only applies to tidally influenced waters, so the public lost access to the shoreline available to residents of the upper Great Lakes, and "Lakefront property" became a big inducement for local developers, town boards and school districts. I am not at all surprised that shipping and hydropower come in first and second in the operation of the Seaway, that is what it was built for to begin with. "The seaway opened in 1959 and cost Canadian $470 million, $336.2 million of which was paid by the Canadian government(Wikipedia)." I don't think that kind of money was spent for shoreline protection in the 50's.
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If you are using a float suit as a boat after November 1, do you have to wear a life jacket too? -
It needs to be remembered that Bob O'Gorman, before he retired, made a presentation on Lake Trout at a SOL meeting where he showed data that indicated that because of predation, (as Captain Perlioni points out) lake trout stocked at a density of less than (I recall, but it could have been higher) 50,000 per site, didn't survive to adulthood. The more that were stocked at a site, over the critical number, the more that could escape the predators. At that time, Bob indicated that while numbers stocked would remain at numbers they were introducing, the number of stocking sites would be reduced to try to get a significant survivor population. As Vince also points out, sites that made the cut were in areas where they had found evidence of natural reproduction. They might also come back on the argument about no LT stocking in MC, by saying that they shore stock browns and Randolph strain (domestic) rainbows in two Monroe County sites, and if they increased lakers, they would have to reduce those stockings. Then it would be a choice of which bread and butter you like, because brown fishing in the spring in MC is about as good as it gets on the Lake. -
Was there data on water temperatures throughout the year, indicating a suitable water supply with a sufficient and stable volume? My recollection is that NYSDEC vetted water sources pretty thoroughly prior to building the Altmar hatchery and the SR/Beaverdam Brook site had the best source, despite the problems they have had with it since. Until there are reliable indication that the bait is out of the woods and bouncing back, I doubt either NYS or Ontario will consider stocking more fish of any species, and if there were going to be increases, it would only be fair, and working within the FCO's to increase King numbers before Trout got bumped up.
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Gee, Guilty, it was based on experience, but I know a lot of people have reading comprehension problems.
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I don't think you qualify for welfare if you make $15.00 an hour. My daughter is making less than that and receives no handouts.
