June Seneca Lake alwife die-off

[salmoseine]

Bacteria identified as causation for Seneca L alwife die-off in June...   https://www.fingerlakes1.com/2023/07/13/dec-bacteria-to-blame-for-significant-die-off-of-fish-in-seneca-lake/

[REEL STORIES]

2017 all over again... 

[T-Rok]

That lake has more alewives than any lake I have ever seen. Also the only lake I have ever been where I  looked at the sonar and they are 40 feet thick from bottom to top and so many the fins are sticking out of the water like bunker pods and it looks like it's raining for up to a quarter mile. Disease is nature's population control. Would think that it would benefit fishing as well as there is less bait in the water. 

[cinnamon fish]

2 hours ago, T-Rok said:

That lake has more alewives than any lake I have ever seen. Also the only lake I have ever been where I  looked at the sonar and they are 40 feet thick from bottom to top and so many the fins are sticking out of the water like bunker pods and it looks like it's raining for up to a quarter mile. Disease is nature's population control. Would think that it would benefit fishing as well as there is less bait in the water. 

 

Agree... except the dead bait is still in the water, rotten and caught in floating weedmats everywhere.

Edited July 15, 2023 by cinnamon fish

[ac holmes]

I have been around Seneca and fished it most of my life, on and off for 80 years.  The "sawbellys" (what we kids called the Alewives) used to die from time to time and I do remember them piled up on the Lakeside Park Beach so us kids could not swim.  I think it has been a regular event for a long time but I don't know why, or if it is a cycle.  I have fished Seneca a couple of time this year (no fish) and there are huge schools of Alewives.  The rumor was years ago that they stocked northern Pike in the 50s and 60s to reduce the Alewives.  I don't know if it was true but I caught several scary big Pike during that time and saw huge fish in the swamp spawning. I am going to fish out of Lodi next week and troll north.  I may resort to pulling copper just to see if the Lakers are still there.

 

[Pappy]

It’s interesting when you are on the lake everyday!

There are lots of dead bait fish this year fir sure and they explained the two bacteria’s that killed them etc.

But...

This year there are also dead bullheads and pike, haven’t seen any perch or bass, trout. 

Last year there were some, not lots, but some small bass and perch around the dock, this year, I have seen none.

Im not a biologist but I have watched and fished here my entire life, something isn’t right!

The fishing here on the south end was world class not many years ago, I stopped fishing just to leave the few that are alone.

[ac holmes]

I agree Pappy,

Just for clarity there are two things:  a bacteria and a virus.  But I suspect there is more that remains unspoken and hidden from the public.  Certainly politics are involved and the burgeoning wine and tourist industry on Seneca.  No one wants to spoil the steep ascent of property values and the development that is rampant. My house has doubled in value in 12 years.

 

I talked to the DEC guys recently for an hour on the phone and they blame the eels and overpopulation of Alewives...it is what they are told to say if they want their retirement.  I also know from people who check the streams that flow into Seneca and there is lots of grape farming stuff, pig, chicken and beef manure along with all the crap and antibiotocs those creatures are fed and given.

 

The salinity of the lake has also increased...why? 

[Sk8man]

I remember back in the 50's and 60's there were huge die offs on Seneca and as mentioned they littered the shoreline and smelled to high heaven.  I'm not sure of the specific dynamics involved but I do believe it can be a population regulation mechanism like that seen in some insects, birds, and some rodents etc. We have been discussing the apparent absence of predators (e..g. Lake Trout, Pike and others) and maybe this contributed to the situation.

 

[T-Rok]

I have thought for a long time that they should be stocking tiger musky in seneca. The alewives are out of control..  throw in an overabundance of shiners and gobies and you have a way too many baitfish problem. I know some people may be scared that tigers would eat gamefish which could be true to a small extent I believe, but I think the overabundance of forage fish needs to be addressed and the tigers could be the answer. Stock them for 5-7 years and re evaluate. But, sadly it will never happen. Too many people would complain about "trout-eating tigers". I would bet tiger/trout & salmon interactions would be pretty minimal... and tigers are a pretty fun to catch. I would almost guarantee seneca could produce world record class tigers in not a large amount of time. 

[ac holmes]

May we conclude that the abundance of Alewives will result in bigger Lake Trout?

[Sk8man]

I think the lampreys have to come under better control before that can happen on any meaningful scale

Edited July 16, 2023 by Sk8man

[Pappy]

Just wondering if anybody looking at this info has seen or found the lake trout stocking info for Seneca Lake lately?

i have checked everything I could find online and I can’t find lake trout info

I found where they stocked the browns but not lake trout

[Followed The Waves]

I have to say that since the die-off, I've been seeing actual bait pods instead of the screen going black for half an hour.  Now if we can just get rid of the weeds and fleas! 

[salmoseine]

On 7/17/2023 at 8:02 AM, Pappy said:

Just wondering if anybody looking at this info has seen or found the lake trout stocking info for Seneca Lake lately?

i have checked everything I could find online and I can’t find lake trout info

I found where they stocked the browns but not lake trout

 

Below is a screen shot of the Seneca  Lake stocking data for 2022: LT, BT and LLS. Catherine Creek is also included (RT).  Data source:  https://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/actualstocking.pdf 

 

Actual DEC stocking data (all NYS waters) for years 2011 - 2022 can be found at: https://data.ny.gov/Recreation/Fish-Stocking-Lists-Actual-Beginning-2011/e52k-ymww  

 

[Pappy]

Awesome

thank you

[bulletbob]

I think all  of the ""developed"" Finger Lakes  have the same problem.. Farms, lawns, septics, storm runoff, sewage treatment plants,... Simply too many people wanted a piece of the lakes, and now here we are.. I moved here in 91 and every one of the lakes was clean, full of life, and looked health.. Today in near shore areas, they all have sickly brownish green slime covering everything... I can still picture in my head seeing rock bottom 20 feet down clear as day.. Those same rocks are now invisible under mats of slime.. Skaneateles  had the exact same clarity as a bottle of good gin, not a weed to be seen... Now its sickly greenish brown half the time, or bright flourescent  green during algae blooms...  Concerning Cayuga and Seneca, I know, the stocked trout are still  there to be caught,  and as long as the alewives are around they will be ok,, but for those of us  that are not  really big on trolling for trout, and prefer other near shore species, the difference has been stark... The numbers of fish  in near shore zones on Seneca and Cayuga is only a percentage of what it was a few decades ago.. The lakes look sick to my aging eyes... I used to  catch Lakers, Salmon, Browns, Pike, Pickerel, SMB, LMB, plus the biggest rock bass, perch, and huge sunnies, all spring and summer, just fishing from shore... those days and those  fish are all gone. sad to say... I noticed the decline  starting around 2000 or so, and just increase each year.. Where I used to see masses of good size fish of many species swimming in clear water, I now see  cloudy looking water with huge wafts of brown/green algae pulsating, and NO fish around it... bob

Edited July 20, 2023 by bulletbob

[ac holmes]

There is a mystery regarding Seneca Lake that is not being talked about to the public.  I live above the Lake in the Hector area and hardly ever see a fishing boat anymore.  The "no fish" in Seneca has to be connected to "no fishermen" also, but I have been out a few times myself and can't catch anything.  I know the Lake well and have fished it for more than 60 years and I am strongly leaning toward the idea of something drastic has happened and not made public.  I go 15 miles to Cayuga and catch Lakers easily.  What is happening on Seneca? 

[GAMBLER]

10 hours ago, ac holmes said:

There is a mystery regarding Seneca Lake that is not being talked about to the public.  I live above the Lake in the Hector area and hardly ever see a fishing boat anymore.  The "no fish" in Seneca has to be connected to "no fishermen" also, but I have been out a few times myself and can't catch anything.  I know the Lake well and have fished it for more than 60 years and I am strongly leaning toward the idea of something drastic has happened and not made public.  I go 15 miles to Cayuga and catch Lakers easily.  What is happening on Seneca? 

Some of my customers had great seasons on Seneca this year.  The fishing seems to be improving the past couple of years.  

[bulletbob]

11 hours ago, ac holmes said:

There is a mystery regarding Seneca Lake that is not being talked about to the public.  I live above the Lake in the Hector area and hardly ever see a fishing boat anymore.  The "no fish" in Seneca has to be connected to "no fishermen" also, but I have been out a few times myself and can't catch anything.  I know the Lake well and have fished it for more than 60 years and I am strongly leaning toward the idea of something drastic has happened and not made public.  I go 15 miles to Cayuga and catch Lakers easily.  What is happening on Seneca? 

 As long as some  very talented guys are catching a few fish trolling, all is well.. No major problems.. Thats the majority opinion here it seems.. does NOT matter what a life long resident thats fished the lake 60 years says,,, i noticed major problems on Seneca years ago.. Not near as many fish, not near as good clarity, and 5 times the algae there was 25 years ago.. You'll typically get;-"Well we had a great year on Seneca".. Doesn't matter that you can't even catch a few Bluegills or Perch with a worm and bobber anymore as the fish  simply aren't there.. As long as there are some lakers, a few "silvers' here and there, and the alewives are around to feed them, all is good... I have observed these lakes closely for over 32 years, and something is drastically wrong in the ones i know best, Seneca/Cayuga/Skaneteles/Keuka,  but its an elephant in the room it seems.. Same thing in the Susquehanna River where I fish a lot.. The Walleyes are GONE.. DEC knows it, no explanations, no remedies, just "yeah we didn't see many Walleyes" during their last survey.. The fishermen know, thats why they no longer go there.. again however, its not really something anyone wants to discuss it seems... bob

[GAMBLER]

51 minutes ago, bulletbob said:

 As long as some  very talented guys are catching a few fish trolling, all is well.. No major problems.. Thats the majority opinion here it seems.. does NOT matter what a life long resident thats fished the lake 60 years says,,, i noticed major problems on Seneca years ago.. Not near as many fish, not near as good clarity, and 5 times the algae there was 25 years ago.. You'll typically get;-"Well we had a great year on Seneca".. Doesn't matter that you can't even catch a few Bluegills or Perch with a worm and bobber anymore as the fish  simply aren't there.. As long as there are some lakers, a few "silvers' here and there, and the alewives are around to feed them, all is good... I have observed these lakes closely for over 32 years, and something is drastically wrong in the ones i know best, Seneca/Cayuga/Skaneteles/Keuka,  but its an elephant in the room it seems.. Same thing in the Susquehanna River where I fish a lot.. The Walleyes are GONE.. DEC knows it, no explanations, no remedies, just "yeah we didn't see many Walleyes" during their last survey.. The fishermen know, thats why they no longer go there.. again however, its not really something anyone wants to discuss it seems... bob

I'm not saying there isn't an issue with the lake.  I'm saying it seems to be improving.   All the lakes have changed.  We have seen a huge change on Honeoye during the ice season.  We have adapted and found the lake has changed but isn't dead.  Most of the weeds are gone in the winter and the fish have adapted to mid lake open water food sources.  

[Pappy]

I am on Seneca south end, west side from April to October, full time from May 15 to September 15. My dock is two steps from my front porch, the water is about 12 feet deep off the end of dock. 

Just so you can visualize what I see....

Have been there for 23 years

The fishing on the north end where the fish are stocked was pretty good this year and yes the fishing on the south end has improved the last two years. Not just trout and landlocked but bass and panfish too. There were tons of small bass this year, first time in many years! I did see two or three real nice small mouths too which i haven’t seen in years! So yes improving on the south end.

The water could not be clearer and only changed with the storms, and the rough water.

the algae and seaweed appear to change almost every year so who knows.

i am not a biologist and can only tell you want I see, so yes south end has improved, and some of the regular trollers have too

[Frogger]

I agree as well.  Lake is turning around. Perch size is starting to improve. Trout is being more consistent and the bass are showing signs of life. Catch and release except the >10 inch gold lol

[ac holmes]

Glad to hear that Seneca is improving.

[jk1]

I thought that the lake trout were spawning enough that they did not need stocking.  At least in Keyuka.  Am I wrong about that?   Did not know that they sere stocked anywhere.....jk

[ac holmes]

The DEC folks told me on the phone that they have been stocking for several years.  In the past (50-60 years  ago) The Seneca spawning Lakers were stripped of their eggs and sperm after gill netting to use as spawn for the other lakes.  Seneca Lake is now in the center of a huge new industry of wine making and the political/economic/tourist money is the main interest.  The DEC folks say what they are told to say by Albany.

There is all kinds of stuff going on with the water quality and there is no way to get at the actual truth...follow the money.  My late wife was the daughter of a high level USA State Department diplomat (pay grade equal to a 3 star general) and he told me not to ever think that the public can know what is actually going on in government...we are kept in the dark and fed BS like mushrooms.