This should make everyone angry!!

[Gill-T]

https://www.localsyr.com/news/nys-dec-busts-over-10-anglers-in-oswego-county-for-fishing-on-salmon-river-after-dark/amp/

[jeb1340]

You think any will pay a fine more than $250? I feel bad for the DEC officers. They go into these situations which could be dangerous and then what’s the outcome?

[rolmops]

It is a bad sign that a lot of this thread has centered on armchair politician complaints centering on laying the blame on those "evil" liberals and democrats. It is an easy finger pointing cop out that requires no action beyond impotent complaining.

There is a clear alternative that may change the picture and can help the eco cops.

How would you feel about a page on this site where you can deposit pictures accompanied by place (GPS location), date and time. That would give the DEC an effective source of information about offenders and potentially a history of repeat offenders. This site could be accessed by DEC officers and give them a lot more muscle in the court room.

Please consider this and write the cons and pros of this idea down so we have more info on how to protect our resources from illegal profiteers

Edited October 20, 2023 by rolmops

[GAMBLER]

41 minutes ago, rolmops said:

It is a bad sign that a lot of this thread has centered on armchair politician complaints centering on laying the blame on those "evil" liberals and democrats. It is an easy finger pointing cop out that requires no action beyond impotent complaining.

There is a clear alternative that may change the picture and can help the eco cops.

How would you feel about a page on this site where you can deposit pictures accompanied by place (GPS location), date and time. That would give the DEC an effective source of information about offenders and potentially a history of repeat offenders. This site could be accessed by DEC officers and give them a lot more muscle in the court room.

Please consider this and write the cons and pros of this idea down so we have more info on how to protect our resources from illegal profiteers

It wouldn't help.  The ECO's do a great job busting guys every year with a very limited staff.  It's the law, courts and BS fines that are the issue.  The city of Rochester throws fishing fines written in the Genny gorge away because they are petty compared to what they deal with every day.  The fines are a joke.  Snag salmon in Alaska and see how that works out for you!

[Gill-T]

On everyone’s license is the phone number for the DEC if you witness crimes being committed. Everyone plays a role. We cannot do anything about how  crimes play out in court. I would also add that a lot of felons with outstanding warrants get picked up during fishing and hunting infractions. Do your part. 

[paul young]

On 9/28/2023 at 5:56 AM, HB2 said:

We aren't talking about a few outlaws snagging fish here . This is  a group effort . And a statement in my opinion . 

 

Whats funny is that things have gotten so bad in the Dem party and this country  that the front runner for president is a guy with 91 felonies . Those " funny" people, or any true American,   sees exactly what is going on . Using the justice system to eliminate your political opposition? And some are OK with that ? What has this country become ? 

 

Go ahead and reelect Biden and ruin what's left of America. 

electing a felon who publicly proposed suspending the Constitution is a better choice? 

On 9/28/2023 at 5:56 AM, HB2 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HB2]

I have the DEC officers on speed dial. I can see outlaw behavior from my Sun room . They said call when you see something and there has been a presence this year on my creek without a call . I asked one officer a few years back why he did not come down more often at night . He told me he would like to but does not like to come around nights alone because they serve a lot of warrants . I told him I did not blame him . I don't want to read about something bad happening to an officer over a snagged fish . 

 

And if I remember right , it was the Dems who wanted to defund law enforcement and made them out to be the bad guys which also emboldened the criminals . Not working out like you thought it would? 

 

We have a president and elected representatives that sidestep the constitution and want to get rid of it. Anyone with a pulse can see that . 

 

Trumps not the president anymore , remember . But he still gets blamed for everything . 

[Gill-T]

The defunding of the DEC happened years ago under Cuomo when in the middle of the night he snuck the Safe Act into existence. When Cuomo asked for loyalty and allegiance to support him in his reelection campaign, the DEC declined in part because the safe act is considered anti-gun which conflicts with  hunting pursuits. At that point Cuomo and his buddy Basil (anti-hunter) set about the demise of the DEC. ECON officers were driving around in issued vehicles that would not pass inspection due to defunding. Then he tried to allow the Forest Rangers to absorb the DEC. whether it be Trump (Republican) or Cuomo (Democrat), there are representatives that look to take down our democracy. Each side will put their own spin on their misdeeds to muddle the waters and deflect. GROW YOUR INDEPENDENT MIND!  Our country is being torn apart because of men and women in government that have no term limits and desperately are trying to stay in power by any means. Apologies for taking this into politics. Rant over. 

[GAMBLER]

[Yankee Troller]

The state, and towns that surround these tribs, have allowed this type of behavior since the Salmon were planted in this lake. Generations of anglers have treated this fishery with little to no respect whether it is taking fish un-ethically or leaving trash behind. They all turn a blind eye so they can make a buck. The antics that happen during this season are displayed all over social media now, and it makes it even easier to watch this compared to in the past. 

 

 

I know I'm on the extreme end of the spectrum, but I feel like the Salmon River, our only source for egg take, should be shut down until egg take is over. Not becasue they cant reach their quota, but becasue our best specimens and genes are being yanked out of the river every season. We see declining Salmon weights, but no one can put their finger on why. With most of the river walkable larger fish are easily spotted and taken out of the system. I'm not for closing down all the tribs during Salmon season, but the one that supports this fishery should be managed better. During this same timeframe large trout are being taken out of the system. Again, the only place they take eggs for Steelhead on the lake.

 

Is the concern for the small towns of Pulaski and Altmar for 1-2mos a year greater than what this 12month fishery provides?

[rolmops]

23 minutes ago, Yankee Troller said:

The state, and towns that surround these tribs, have allowed this type of behavior since the Salmon were planted in this lake. Generations of anglers have treated this fishery with little to no respect whether it is taking fish un-ethically or leaving trash behind. They all turn a blind eye so they can make a buck. The antics that happen during this season are displayed all over social media now, and it makes it even easier to watch this compared to in the past. 

 

 

I know I'm on the extreme end of the spectrum, but I feel like the Salmon River, our only source for egg take, should be shut down until egg take is over. Not becasue they cant reach their quota, but becasue our best specimens and genes are being yanked out of the river every season. We see declining Salmon weights, but no one can put their finger on why. With most of the river walkable larger fish are easily spotted and taken out of the system. I'm not for closing down all the tribs during Salmon season, but the one that supports this fishery should be managed better. During this same timeframe large trout are being taken out of the system. Again, the only place they take eggs for Steelhead on the lake.

 

Is the concern for the small towns of Pulaski and Altmar for 1-2mos a year greater than what this 12month fishery provides?

I'm with you on that one, but with a twist. There is not a real reason why the egg take is done at a specific date. It can be done a lot earlier ,or in stages. If the river can be closed to fishing for say, a week before egg take so the salmon can safely reach the hatchery there would indeed be a better chance at SELECTIVE size dependent  egg take. But it should not only be the river. There should be no boats in front of the river during that time either. I'm sure that the DSR would support this for their own reasons

[Yankee Troller]

18 minutes ago, rolmops said:

I'm with you on that one, but with a twist. There is not a real reason why the egg take is done at a specific date. It can be done a lot earlier ,or in stages. If the river can be closed to fishing for say, a week before egg take so the salmon can safely reach the hatchery there would indeed be a better chance at SELECTIVE size dependent  egg take. But it should not only be the river. There should be no boats in front of the river during that time either. I'm sure that the DSR would support this for their own reasons

 

There is a reason why egg take is done at a specific time. It's temperature related to produce the best eye up. 

 

Boats in front of a river, in my opinion, do very little to hurt what is running the river. Those fish have to bite to be caught in open water. There's no way to troll over to the largest fish and catch it out of the system like you can do fishing the river.

[curtisYO]

6 hours ago, GAMBLER said:

It wouldn't help.  The ECO's do a great job busting guys every year with a very limited staff.  It's the law, courts and BS fines that are the issue.  The city of Rochester throws fishing fines written in the Genny gorge away because they are petty compared to what they deal with every day.  The fines are a joke.  Snag salmon in Alaska and see how that works out for you!

 Creel Haul survey fella told me exactly that on the Genny. Fish & Wildlife charges mostly get thrown out in Monroe county. Lower Falls is starting to stack the carcasses and there's snatchers there all the time.

[GAMBLER]

5 minutes ago, curtisYO said:

 Creel Haul survey fella told me exactly that on the Genny. Fish & Wildlife charges mostly get thrown out in Monroe county. Lower Falls is starting to stack the carcasses and there's snatchers there all the time.

They only keep the fines that have warrants and other crimes attached to them.  It’s really sad.  Here a guy does his job and it’s all for nothing.  These guys are sportsmen like us and hate seeing the BS that goes on with fish and game in this state.  I couldn’t imagine doing my job and all my effort is wasted day in and day out.  

[LongLine]

Please refresh my memory...Has the DEC ever had a shortfall in obtaining eggs due to insufficient numbers of returning fish?  (DEC has already changed the stocking strategy in last few years to protect the broodstock there.)

 

If so:

 

(1) Other game fish such as Bass, Pike & Lakers have closed seasons so they can spawn.  That river season could be closed for 7-10 days.  Other places around the lake would probably love a weeks' worth of additional business during those 7-10 days. 

or 

 (2)  Fire up the Seth Greene & landing barge to net them off the mouth.  

 

If not, then it's moot.

 

As to violators during this time of year:

 

(1) Why can't DEC contract local/off duty officers or law enforcement depts to catch snaggers & the over limit catches for a couple week period?  Law officer contractors wouldn't have to know all the conservation laws, just the basics like all of us. A one-day class would probably be sufficient training for it.  They already know the police/people part of the job.  Most of them are fishermen and/or hunters anyways.

and

(2) Give the fines to the community that catches them, just like speeding tickets & registrations go to the locality?  Maybe put a surcharge on them like vehicle violations.  After all it is in the local community's best interest to protect the fishery, especially Pulaski.  (Vehicular "speed traps" love this part as it's a good revenue raiser)

[LongLine]

Just got the note:  DEC collected 2.4 million eggs from 510 female Kings and 787,000  eggs from 247 Cohos at SR this year.

 

 

[Crestliner]

love the toilet Gambler!!!!

[HB2]

All this crazy behavior on the tribs is not new and has been going on since the beginning . Snagging was legal for the longest time . And the fish were huge back then . 

What is going on now on the tribs is probably the most ethical it has  ever been .

 

Trib fisherman contribute huge monetary to the state ,and more importantly , the local economy.

On Sandy yesterday on my way down to my cottage the bridges were packed with out of state cars . An awfull  lot of money changes hands in motels , restaurants ,license, tackle shops . Which is why the fish are stocked . 

 

It amazes me that people who benefit monetary wise from the fishery , are critical of others that do so . 

 

What goes on in the tribs , really doesn't affect the quality of the fishing in the lake . 

 

Stop blaming trib anglers for the woes of the fishery .

[Crestliner]

Right on HB2 since I enjoy trib fishing just as much as lake fishing.

[GAMBLER]

On 10/20/2023 at 5:50 PM, LongLine said:

Please refresh my memory...Has the DEC ever had a shortfall in obtaining eggs due to insufficient numbers of returning fish?  (DEC has already changed the stocking strategy in last few years to protect the broodstock there.)

 

If so:

 

(1) Other game fish such as Bass, Pike & Lakers have closed seasons so they can spawn.  That river season could be closed for 7-10 days.  Other places around the lake would probably love a weeks' worth of additional business during those 7-10 days. 

or 

 (2)  Fire up the Seth Greene & landing barge to net them off the mouth.  

 

If not, then it's moot.

 

As to violators during this time of year:

 

(1) Why can't DEC contract local/off duty officers or law enforcement depts to catch snaggers & the over limit catches for a couple week period?  Law officer contractors wouldn't have to know all the conservation laws, just the basics like all of us. A one-day class would probably be sufficient training for it.  They already know the police/people part of the job.  Most of them are fishermen and/or hunters anyways.

and

(2) Give the fines to the community that catches them, just like speeding tickets & registrations go to the locality?  Maybe put a surcharge on them like vehicle violations.  After all it is in the local community's best interest to protect the fishery, especially Pulaski.  (Vehicular "speed traps" love this part as it's a good revenue raiser)

A while back the DEC didn’t have enough fish return to the hatchery.  They were going to other tribs and taking fish from guys that were catching them. 

[GAMBLER]

On 10/20/2023 at 2:10 PM, Yankee Troller said:

The state, and towns that surround these tribs, have allowed this type of behavior since the Salmon were planted in this lake. Generations of anglers have treated this fishery with little to no respect whether it is taking fish un-ethically or leaving trash behind. They all turn a blind eye so they can make a buck. The antics that happen during this season are displayed all over social media now, and it makes it even easier to watch this compared to in the past. 

 

 

I know I'm on the extreme end of the spectrum, but I feel like the Salmon River, our only source for egg take, should be shut down until egg take is over. Not becasue they cant reach their quota, but becasue our best specimens and genes are being yanked out of the river every season. We see declining Salmon weights, but no one can put their finger on why. With most of the river walkable larger fish are easily spotted and taken out of the system. I'm not for closing down all the tribs during Salmon season, but the one that supports this fishery should be managed better. During this same timeframe large trout are being taken out of the system. Again, the only place they take eggs for Steelhead on the lake.

 

Is the concern for the small towns of Pulaski and Altmar for 1-2mos a year greater than what this 12month fishery provides?

If the Salmon are managed for the lake fishery, shouldn’t they be managed better in the tribs?  We manage the lake better for steelhead for the tribs.  

[curtisYO]

Lower falls

[HB2]

Non of the above bothers the lake fishery a bit . Other than some nat reproduction . 

[yank my line]

I have watched the workers at the hatchery take the big salmon and throw them without stripping or milking. They like to handle 15 to 20 pounders.

[Crestliner]

After the egg take open up that damn gate and let the rest of the salmon coming go do there natural spawning. It's pure cruelty to see them fish struggling to get past that gate. They what to get to where they were born !!!!!! A little more natural reproduction can't hurt.