This should make everyone angry!!

[HB2]

Id bet my favorite fllyrod our guys have read this report ,and others . This was a decades long study with no definitive conclusion . And I'm sure there are more west coat studies out there as this problem is chronic . 

 

So go with the obvious , it's probably bait related. Even that study said that might be it . We have been told this by our DEC . But in the beginning,looking back ,  when they said this, and they wanted to cut stocking, there was huge push back . And still is . So it seems the DEC is walking a tight rope to provide us the best possible under current conditions. 

 

Any study will take years . So short term , go enjoy what we have while you still have it . 

 

Untill the bottom of the food chain gets built up , ( and how do you do that ) were probably going to have to live with this , at least for a while . And hope it does not get worse . We will have wait and see . 

[Big fat pike]

2 hours ago, Gill-T said:

Gobies can carry botulism. 

Yes but with an nearly unlimited source of zebra muscles we are never going to get rid of them 

 

2 hours ago, HB2 said:

Id bet my favorite fllyrod our guys have read this report ,and others . This was a decades long study with no definitive conclusion . And I'm sure there are more west coat studies out there as this problem is chronic . 

 

So go with the obvious , it's probably bait related. Even that study said that might be it . We have been told this by our DEC . But in the beginning,looking back ,  when they said this, and they wanted to cut stocking, there was huge push back . And still is . So it seems the DEC is walking a tight rope to provide us the best possible under current conditions. 

 

Any study will take years . So short term , go enjoy what we have while you still have it . 

 

Untill the bottom of the food chain gets built up , ( and how do you do that ) were probably going to have to live with this , at least for a while . And hope it does not get worse . We will have wait and see . 

At least the browns and lakers are eating gobies

also i came across a guy on the michigan sportsman forum who caught a coho salmon in huron and he found this in its stomach

[LongLine]

Ring, ring, ring

Hello, this is DEC, your call may be recorded for quaility assurance, please wait for next available officer.

 

DEC officer 1:  Hello this is DEC officer 1, how can I help you?

 

Caller: I'm very concerned about decreasing size of fish in Lake Ontario.

 

DEC #1: Well, sir, as you know the Lake Ontario Fishery is important to NYS, and DEC continues to support that World Class Fishery.  Have a nice day.

 

Click.

 

DEC #1 turning to to DEC supervisor:  Hey you know, that was the 157th call we got concerning the fish in Lake Ontario. 

 

At headquarters monthly DEC meeting:

 

Quality assurance operator to DEC boss: We've got a lot of calls about fish in Lake Ontario.

 

DEC boss to DEC suppervisor: What's going on out there?

 

Supervisor to boss: Well, there's some concern about the size of the fish out there.

 

Boss to supervisor: That fishery is economically important to the State. We've changed creel limits; we've cut stocking; we're treating them for disease; we've greatly reduced phosphates and chemical pollution; we're stocking ciscos; we've improved hatchery conditions.  We should look into it.  Get our partners involved. (USGS, USFWS, OMNR, etc) Explain what's going on to our stakehoders and at least explain current and future programs that may affect the concerns.

 

(All starts with some stakeholder input.)

 

 

 

 

[Big fat pike]

7 hours ago, Gill-T said:

Gobies can carry botulism. 

After reading what  botulism is and how it affects birds & fish why is it other fish are able to eat gobies and only suffer morbid obesity 

[HB2]

Ring ring ring 

 

DEC , how can we help you ? 

 

Are you aware king salmon weights are down for the last 15 years ? 

 

OMG , with all the scale samples , graphs, charts of every aspect of their lives egg to eggtake , the angler surveys lake and creek , bait biomass assessment and how many to safely stock , and all the other data we take , we completely missed the fact weights are down . 

Its a a good thing Mr Stakeholder you called and brought this to our attention. Otherwise we would have never seen this . 

 

It all starts with Mother Nature . And she's in charge . 

[LongLine]

It's not a matter of whether they've seen it. They obviously know about it as the graphs I've posted are from the annual reports.  The question is whether they know that stakeholders have concerns about it. As well as If and what can be done about it?  Is anything being done?

 

People called about the alewife issue back in the 60's and salmon were introduced.  After a few years the salmon demonstrated a very good economic return, and it became a world class fishery that attracted fishermen from all over the country. (The 1st ESLO derby only had a few salmon turned in and a 6 Lb'r won the Rev Modish a 14 ft boat.  Thereafter the fishery grew.)

 

M.N. introduced the diseases but aqua culturists developed the treatments.as a preventive maintenance to protect the fishery.  M.N. brought in the Lampreys, biochemists developed the lampricides, also as preventive maintenance.  Man polluted the lake and agencies are trying to clean it up as preventive maintenance.  If M.N. had her way, it'd be a glaciated lake like it was created by M.N. at the end of the last ice age.  i.e. pure water...no living organism in it. 

 

I look at it as a preventive maintenance item. I'm a C&R Rec fisherman and I'd prefer they discuss and look into the issue at their monthly meeting rather than have them say: "well, nobody's expressed any concerns, so the stakeholders must be fat dumb & happy with the direction things are going in." 

[GAMBLER]

3 hours ago, HB2 said:

Ring ring ring 

 

DEC , how can we help you ? 

 

Are you aware king salmon weights are down for the last 15 years ? 

 

OMG , with all the scale samples , graphs, charts of every aspect of their lives egg to eggtake , the angler surveys lake and creek , bait biomass assessment and how many to safely stock , and all the other data we take , we completely missed the fact weights are down . 

Its a a good thing Mr Stakeholder you called and brought this to our attention. Otherwise we would have never seen this . 

 

It all starts with Mother Nature . And she's in charge . 

The Lake Managers do not do anything about some issues unless there is A LOT of noise made over it.  They are a state agency and we all know how hard it is to get anything done in this state.   For example: Coromorants are a HUGE issue that everyone that fishes the lake has an issue with.  The DEC is well aware of the issue yet there still isn't a season.  Canada has opened a season on cormorants.   Sitting back and watching worked well in Lake Huron for the salmon fishery....  I would rather not watch the fishery I have enjoyed my entire life fade away because we sat back and waited to see what happened.  

Edited October 30, 2023 by GAMBLER

[Crestliner]

Yes, Shoot the cormorants. There even on Canandaigua Lake now !!!

[Lucky13]

Lots of stuff here!  I'm only going to shoot at a couple of things.

 

Botulism is ubiquitous in the marine environment.  The organism that causes it is anaerobic, it will only develop in an oxygen free environment, and the ideal environment for that development is a dead organism.  The most accepted theory for proliferation in Lakes Erie and Ontario is that Dreissenids that continually colonize the same places build layers of live organisms on top of older ones, who eventually die and provide a place for the Botulism organism to develop, and as decomposition of the organism continues and the C. Botulinum keeps growing, toxins build up, which are eventually carried to the surface of the colony by upwelling processes, where they kill living mussels, which are then ingested by feeding gobies (or any other fish that feeds on Mussels, like freshwater drum), who then are eaten by diving fish eating birds, especially loons, grebes, and mergansers. 

 

When undertaking environmental restoration, one method of evaluating the success of the remediation is the degree to which the natural system that existed before the degradation has been restored.  One method proposed for conducting the evaluation is to identify an indicator species native to the ecosystem, and monitor the status of the species.  In the Rochester Embayment Area of Concern, the Habitat Oversight Committee proposed adopting native species in different trophic levels as indicators of restoration.  The Trout Unlimited Representative to that Committee proposed that Atlantic Salmon restoration should be the indicator for the Genesee River, but research on River history identified little indication that there had ever been significant returns of Atlantic Salmon to the Genesee, as it is a fairly warm river due to low slope and its length, even when it was mostly shaded.  However, histories of the Rochester area are full of accounts of the Sturgeon run in the river.  Chris Lowie of USF+WS Amherst was also on this committee and he suggested that USF+WS might undertake an evaluation of the habitat to see if it would be suitable for sturgeon, as a first step in possible getting a reintroduction going.  Dr. Dawn Dittman and Emily Zolweg, while she was still in school, did an evaluation that showed good substrate and a benthic biomass sufficient for sturgeon, and Dr. Dittman has been integral to this joint USGS and NYSDEC Project since.  Efforts were also supported in the Fish Community Objectives for Lake Ontario, for sturgeon, as well as, to some extent, Lake Trout and Atlantic Salmon, which are 2 of the three traditional top level predators.  As sturgeon are a shallow water dweller, despite their size, they should have no impact on the Pelagic species, so I fail to understand the concern.  And while they are massive in size at maturity, diet studies indicate that their main food source is invertebrates, in the Genesee mainly chironomids (midges)

 

People are talking another hatchery, or expansion of how fish are handled at Altmar.  The major issue I see with Altmar, or any other place for another facility, is water.  The SR Hatchery is at its limits on what water it can get, and is now exploring methods of reuse.  Any new hatchery location would require a large, cold clean water source, and I'm personally not aware of any that the potable people haven't identified flowing into Lake Ontario.

 

Upper management at NYSDEC is definitely interested in the size issue, and a study of the caloric content of alewife has been indicated as needed, as any data on that is at least 10 years old.