Border Patrol Boat

[Irish Hammer]

Good to see opinions from both sides of the aisle. Anytime we have a topic like this it brings out a lot of input. As an individual involved in law enforcement, it is my opinion there is no room for ignorance, arrogance, disrespect or an unprofessional attitude towards the general public. It is also my opinion that all law enforcement agencies from the local village police officer on up to the feds serve a purpose and serve that purpose with integrity and in a very professional manner.

RodBuster, it is unfortunate that you went through that experience. It has put a sour taste in your mouth and it is something that you will not forget. I would like to offer the forum some information about the current state of Customs and Border Protection and who serves what purpose on our Great Lakes and inland waterrways.

Before the creation of the Department of Homeland Security(DHS) the United States Border Patrol fell under the Immigration and Naturalization Service within the Department Of Justice. After DHS was created a new entity was born, Customs and Border Protection(CBP). Within CBP there is a unit called Air and Marine. These federal agents are tasked with enforcing multiple laws in the near coastal and Great Lakes regions. The U.S. Border Patrol traditionally executed these duties but were replaced by CBP Air and Marine after CBP was established. The Border Patrol still has Marine assets but they perform their duties primarily in a riverine environment. Occasionally you may see them out in Lake Ontario or Lake Erie but for the most part they remain in the Niagara, St. Lawrence and other riverine environments. Border Patrol and CBP Air and Marine vessels are marked the same since we are under the same agency. Unless you specifically ask what agency you are dealing with or know what vessels each agency are outfitted with it is very hard to tell who you are having an encounter with. Don't be afraid to ask. Three years ago, all encounters were with the Border Patrol. Now I would say if you are out in the lake it is most likely CBP Air and Marine you are seeing.

I would guess that RodBuster had an encounter with CBP Air and Marine. From the description(triple Mercury outboards), it sounds as if this is one of their vessels. The problem I am seeing is the new vessel commanders and crewmen are not aware of or trained to identify some of the common recreational activities in our area. They see fishing boats and think individuals are pulling lines behind and below their boat. In all honesty, I am sure some of them have no idea what in-line or big boards are or what purpose they serve. They also probably don't understand the effort put into getting all the gear and accessories set up while trolling.

I would recommend a couple things. First of all and most important, stay calm , courteous, and professional. Even if the Law enforcement vessel approached in a matter unsuitable to you, things will only go down hill if you have a poor attitude. After the encounter, discuss the manner of approach and make suggestions to the vessel commander. Tell him what the purpose of the boards are and how far back lines are usually run. Suggest utilizing radio communications to advise that a boarding will take place and allow enough time to clear gear to make it safe for both parties. Constructive criticism goes a lot further than arguing a point. If you encounter an agent or officer that is unprofessional or does not treat you the way you feel you deserve, ask for the contact information of their superior officer. If you feel that won't do the job, call your local elected representative and express your feelings.

The Southern and Northern borders are completely different. I have spent time on both in a law enforcement capacity. We must remember that just eight short years ago a couple towers came down at the hands of terrorists and a lot of lives were lost. There are always indivduals looking to make our way of life uncomfortable. We are darn lucky to live where we live and enjoy the liberties we have. Although it might appear that some of these law enforcement vessels are harassing the public, they do have a mission and are doing their best to accomplish it. Stay vigilant and report suspicious activity. The public are our eyes and ears. Thanks for reading my take on things. Hope it helps.

Irish Hammer

[skipper19]

Excellent post, Irish, I am humble with knowing now,.....Thank you, Mark

[rail bird]

The Agencies protecting us are silent for the most part, like the security programs running in the background of the computer you are reading this on. Every once in a while, they pop up to let us know they are doing their job, keeping spy's and hackers and virus's from harming our fun and productivity. Are they annoying and inconveniences when they do this? Well yeah, in a way, especially when you are in the middle of YOUR freedom to use the machine for those activities, but then you realize, you put them there to protect you, and your world, on the machine from harm.

I wonder how long it takes them to figgure out that when someone posts rocket launchers for sale on this site that we are talking about fishing equipment?

[LongLine]

I may be repeating what's already been said but I think there are two main inputs for the patrol group on this issue. Unfortunately it’s the times we now live in. We all want the bad guy caught before he can do any harm. “However, I’m not the terrorist so don’t infringe on my US citizenship freedoms, especially on Saturday morning when I’m fishing.â€

The second input is from the intelligence dept of the security group charged with border protection. The dept that trains & issues the internal memos to the patrolling groups. Albeit, they probably don’t know the first thing about recreational Fishing, this dept knows that worldwide fishing boats have attacked freighters, speed boats have attacked warships and that blow boats have been caught smuggling aliens & drugs. They know we have a network & that many of us have “rocket launchers†mounted on our boats. They know we sometimes speak in codes. IE “20 down & 80 backâ€; “out 200 on a 2 ½ settingâ€; purple spooks working on 28 lineâ€. They know we frequent the “Blue zone†and that some of us go to Canadian waters & back.

The actions of the patrol group is what the general populace sees. They have to balance the inputs & generate appropriate actions. As they gain experience, I’m sure their actions will be “toned down†a bit (in our eyes) and more appropriate for the situation. OJT will teach them how to safely approach a troller. At least they came in from the side. Until the OJT is complete, mistakes will be made & some of us will “pay the price.â€

Personally, I wouldn’t want their jobs. I’m glad they’re out there and that the word is spreading that they are out there.

(Of course, I’m disregarding the notion that some patrolling individuals may be power-hungry ignorant morons that shouldn’t even be school crossing guards. At least until they cause a ruckus on one of my outings.)

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[shadster]

There are those that take their job and responsibility to the extreme. Regardless, that is all they are doing. Their job. It is most unfortunate that some see it as an encroachment on their freedoms. In a perfect world you may have a reason to be miffed. Unfortunately, it is not a perfect world. I commend those who are there defending or protecting the freedoms I enjoy. If they feel the need or have a reason to pull along side or pull me over I never forget to thank them or answer with a yes, sir or yes, mam. Had everyone been doing their jobs before 9/11 we would not be in this discussion to start.

Being able to "do whatever I want" is not the true meaning of freedom. Freedom is a condition in which a person is capable of achieving his or her greatest potential through clear understanding and responsible action. Any choice I make that takes away my own or others ability to think clearly or act rationally, or closes the door to a constructive opportunity, is contrary to the principle of freedom.

[jimski2]

The problem is with some desk jockey, not the boat crews. They place the demands that big numbers be posted and the boat crews want to get the boat checks done as quickly as possible. Since the economic conditions went down the tank in New York, have you noticed all the traffic tickets being issued to bring in revenues by soaking the traveling public. The state has ordered all police to increase their traffic ticket count.

[on the lam]

Cops SUCK

Yea until you need one....Like when you wife or daughter gets in an accident or has a flat and some good civil servant changes her tire, or stands by till AAA gets there. The Police have gotten a bad rap lately. Sure there are alot of crappy things going on, and you know what Bad on those guys. Bad on the guys who give good cops a bad name. As far as those BP guys......They probably didn't have any idea what goes into trolling a spread. I'm not making excuses you guys just have to remember not everyone on the lake has a clue what we do. Most BP guys start off in one of the worst crappy areas on the Mexican border. Every day they face the possibility of some national killing them in order to get into the US. I have alot of respect for the job they do and the coast guard for that matter. Its just a sign of the times and we have to adjust to it.

Slow down there pal, If your a "law enforcement professional" you should have engaged your investigator brain before your mouth and noticed the name of my boat, (on the lam), which is a police term for "getting scarce" like what I do on weekends!! and maybe my profile would give you a little hint that I am a "law enforcement professional for 25 years. Some on this board know that and hence the "cops suck" comment, which as the icons indicate was lightly stated. If you need a little advice as to how to do some basic police investigation feel free to ask, and by the way what is your law enforcement experience so I can better judge your attack against me.

[on the lam]

BTW, rodbusters experience is a bi-product of post 9/11, and the border agents have an obligation to their oath, as well as the country to do their job. The fact that they approached the boat only to leave without boarding it is an indication that they immediately knew that he was a rec fisherman and not someone planning to skip Iran through Toronto.

The job that they do is one thats necessary, and we can only hope that the occasional interruption to our weekend fishing trip will translate into a safer country to live in for our loved ones and the country as a whole.

And I should also add some cops do "suck", but the vast majority do not.

[Missdemeanor]

On the lamb...I prefer to Pm rather than continue this on a public forum.............Pm sent forth with

[on the lam]

If your looking for a PM from me, don't hold your breath, I said what I had to say. And its "On the Lam".

[muskybob]

[seasquirrel]

Just Jersey cops Pete! They are sticklers on every law! HA! HA!

[big easy]

deleted by me

[Paul Jackson]

In the early years of salmon fishing we had a similar problem with sail boats at the mouth of the niagara, they were always getting in our lines, so we made an appointment with the local yacht club and explained what we were doing,they had no idea ,they informed their members and it helped somewhat. Maybe somebody should sit down with the boarder guys, or better yet take one fishing.

[Edd]

I wonder how long it takes them to figgure out that when someone posts rocket launchers for sale on this site that we are talking about fishing equipment?

Even out west in California, this is very concerning.

Edd

[Outcast]

Maybe its the oogles of cash that our tax dollars are put towards homeland security that is doled out by the US Govt. I've been part of this debacle and its disgusting how we spend money in the name of security. There is so much money in the kitty that they are begging for ways to spend it. Like trip 200's and 3 greenhorns checking for missles in the fish boxes.

Watched them pull over 2 fisherman last weekend. Add those two pull overs as more justification for more of your cash going in this direction. Job security.

[Baccala]

I used to get pulled over once or twice a year by the Coast Guard for a saftey check and usually while drift fishing. So I joined the Coast Guard Auxiliary and they don't pull me over any more. Wow, what a relief!

[rolmops]

These homeland security guys are to be pitied.How long can you be chasing phantoms?

There have not been very many terrorists on Lake Ontario and out of sheer boredom or out of a desperate effort to justify their job they start harassing fishermen.

At some point or other they will be absorbed into the coastguard and then they will be a lot more useful to all of us.

[ray koziatek]

for those who remember 9/11/01 took place about 8 years after te 93 attempts of blowing up the same buildings ....My humble opinion is NEVER LET OUR GUARD DOWN AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you each and every person involved in our UNITED STATES OF AMERICA SECURITY SYSTEM ,from the lonly street pounder in every city in our great country to the guy who i hope we never know about who has infiltrated the terrioest network to obtaine information..I and many others have done OUR part in keep this country FREE \!!!!!!!! NOW LET THESE FOLKS DO THERE JOB TO THE BEST OF THERE ABILITY WITH OUR SUPPORT IF WE ARE LUCKY ENUFF TO HELP TRAIN THE GUYS PATROLLING OUR STREETS OR WATERS DO IT WITH THE PRIDE THAT YOU ARE DOING YOUR PART FOR OUR FREEDOM ....................OR MOVE

[final flight]

my two pennies worth is as follows...thank-you so very much(law inforcement officers) for doing your job and being concerned for MY freedoms. been checked twice in and around Oswego harbor. these people were very profesional!! on the other hand try dealing with Pa. officers, YOU ARE GUILTY until you prove differant and a bad attitude only makes it worse.

[Outcast]

for those who remember 9/11/01 took place about 8 years after te 93 attempts of blowing up the same buildings ....My humble opinion is NEVER LET OUR GUARD DOWN AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you each and every person involved in our UNITED STATES OF AMERICA SECURITY SYSTEM ,from the lonly street pounder in every city in our great country to the guy who i hope we never know about who has infiltrated the terrioest network to obtaine information..I and many others have done OUR part in keep this country FREE \!!!!!!!! NOW LET THESE FOLKS DO THERE JOB TO THE BEST OF THERE ABILITY WITH OUR SUPPORT IF WE ARE LUCKY ENUFF TO HELP TRAIN THE GUYS PATROLLING OUR STREETS OR WATERS DO IT WITH THE PRIDE THAT YOU ARE DOING YOUR PART FOR OUR FREEDOM ....................OR MOVE

I assume you fly alot. Ever seen a TSA agent that cared what the difference is between a fuse in my shoe and a leaf hanging off some dog poo?

I haven't. It's not the people, its the system. As always. Its a fine line, protect me with my money, but don't use my money to destroy my freedoms.

I hear ya, but common sense is not synonymous with US Govt.

[skipper19]

The problem is with some desk jockey, not the boat crews. They place the demands that big numbers be posted and the boat crews want to get the boat checks done as quickly as possible. Since the economic conditions went down the tank in New York, have you noticed all the traffic tickets being issued to bring in revenues by soaking the traveling public. The state has ordered all police to increase their traffic ticket count.

Same thing is going on with the NYS DOT. They are increasing their inspections of commercial vehicles as well. Just a couple of days ago, friends of ours went to the state land in Otter Creek with their horse trailer for a recreational ride there. They were inspected by the DOT police and they wrote 10 tickets for safety violations ranging from no fire extinguisher to no safety chains hooked to the tow vehicle etc. Now I'm not condoning this kind of safety ignorance ...but each violation was $350 for a total of $3500 bucks . That is just plain rediculous, and not unexpected from our stupid state government. Add this to your list of gripes for the idiots in Albany that can't figure how to get their heads out of somebody elses a$$ (spitzer). the new one wouldn't know except for the odor

Now the next will be your boat and trailers being fined for whatever they can for the same rediculous money. Heaven forbid you should have a light out and get pulled over and inspected for your safety equipment, just so they can try to settle the state deficit. WITH OUR MONEY. maybe the governor should take another LOOK at this.

Mark

[jimski2]

The governor did look at the tax money coming in and it is going out faster than it is coming in. Common sense tells the tax eaters to bring in some revenues or you will be the first to be cut when the checks start bouncing. Be careful out there, these are dangerous times.

[skipper19]

that's why we still have a second amendment....for now..support the NRA and SCOPE (shooters committee on political education). Dangerous times indeed!

[jimski2]

You be careful, there is a thing about taking up arms against the government.