Well , I guess we know now

[Lucky13]

23 hours ago, GAMBLER said:

It is posted on Facebook, here, their email list and the website for the charter association.   Can't say it's non-existent.  

So it is publicized for the Charter group.   It is NOT publicized for the general public.

[Gator]

I'm interested in what you mean by "publicized to the public".  There's no way that the group can put up flyers all over town or advertise in the D&C. Their target audience is small. They have an email list that you can get on to receive notifications. They use Facebook (which I despise) and LOU (which I love). This seems right to me. Folks with interest can easily get dates and times to put on their calendar.

 

I guess I don't understand what you're asking them to do. If you have ideas, it'd be great to post specifics. And I bet that the organizers would be pleased to consider them. IMHO, solutions are always appreciated. Meliora!

[HB2]

I guess the answer to the question I have is , what was the avg size of a returning 3 year old king salmon say the last few years ? 

[GAMBLER]

On 5/18/2024 at 9:04 AM, Lucky13 said:

So it is publicized for the Charter group.   It is NOT publicized for the general public.

Kind of like Trout Unlimited…..

[Gill-T]

lol 😂 

[Lucky13]

On 5/18/2024 at 12:33 PM, Gator said:

I'm interested in what you mean by "publicized to the public".  There's no way that the group can put up flyers all over town or advertise in the D&C. Their target audience is small. They have an email list that you can get on to receive notifications. They use Facebook (which I despise) and LOU (which I love). This seems right to me. Folks with interest can easily get dates and times to put on their calendar.

 

I guess I don't understand what you're asking them to do. If you have ideas, it'd be great to post specifics. And I bet that the organizers would be pleased to consider them. IMHO, solutions are always appreciated. Meliora!

I don't expect the Charter group to do anything.  DEC could easily put it in one of their e-newsletters.   That is how the SOL meetings were communicated, as well as through the Fisheries Advisory Board and the other groups.

[Lucky13]

13 hours ago, GAMBLER said:

Kind of like Trout Unlimited…..

DEC does presentations for Trout Unlimited?  When there was a newspaper, their meetings were announced, when the newspaper had an outdoors column.

[Gill-T]

WHI winning team this weekend had a 9.8 lb average. 

[Tall Tails]

The hate for giant class of natural 2yr kings seems to be great.... I guess the worst could be Lake Huron king fishing... 

[Yankee Troller]

7 days of tourney guys looking for a fish 20lbs or bigger, and there were 2 winners from 7 days of fishing. Every day was a fishable day with no wind to keep people off the water.

 

[HB2]

So those 12 to 18 # fish have to be 

3 years old . 

 

Why are they so small ( that's retorical) ? When I inquired about this to DEC last fall,  they told me lack of bait . Can't have big fish without an ample supply of bait fish . I kind of have to believe  them . 

[Yankee Troller]

7 minutes ago, HB2 said:

So those 12 to 18 # fish have to be 

3 years old . 

 

Why are they so small ( that's retorical) ? When I inquired about this to DEC last fall,  they told me lack of bait . Can't have big fish without an ample supply of bait fish . I kind of have to believe  them . 

 

Well, the bait level studies have the last two years were good enough for the DEC to increase stocking numbers of Chinooks, so I don't see how they could say that. You talk to the biologist and they see better numbers out there than they have for a few years.

[GAMBLER]

7 hours ago, Lucky13 said:

DEC does presentations for Trout Unlimited?  When there was a newspaper, their meetings were announced, when the newspaper had an outdoors column.

Trout Unlimited, just like the Charter association releases info to their members and the fishing community through social media.  In the current economy, neither club will be flying a plane with a banner or sending smoke signals like you are asking.  You are complaining about something that is pointless.  

Edited May 20 by GAMBLER

[HB2]

From what I gather , the DEC is under pressure to provide the best fishery under current lake conditions  . Just because there was somewhat of an increase in bait fish In the lake that led to increase stocking doesn't mean  size will increase significantly. 

 

I fished out of Sandy for the LOC I think 5 days . I saw very little bait . There were fish there because of  good green water . I'm sur there is some bait but not west end bait 

 

 The west  end has way more bait early season .  Which may be why almost all the leader board kingss came from up there . If the kings migrate up that way mid winter and stuff themselves for the entire time they are there , common sense says they will be bigger . 

 

I think we are in the new normal, for size wise . Maybe it's time to lower expectations. A 20# king is not a 35# king , but it's still a nice fish . 

 

That being said in the first ESLOs , the winning kings were smaller fish . Probably because we don't know how to catch them and our rod and reel combos couldn't handle them . 

 

If in fact those 12 to 18# kings are 3 year olds then it most likely is bait . Otherwise it has to be genetics of some sort . 

[Gator]

Yankee's WHI post really sticks the landing. And H2B nailed it with "we are in the new normal". 

 

As much as I love a big, ripping king, I actually prefer teenagers, particularly when you measure hits in dozens  - IMHO kids can better handle them and my arthritic hands don't feel like they've been worked over by Cousin Louie afterwards.

[HB2]

When I hear " teenager  " for king , what does that refer to ? 

 

[Gill-T]

The results don’t mean the lake is bait poor, just more mouths to feed. Lake Erie is in the same situation with walleye. It has become very difficult to catch a fish over 10 lbs because of the huge class of 5-7lbers.  Nobody is complaining. 

[Tall Tails]

What we are seeing now is the Lake Ontario strain of King Salmon.  They are no longer "West Coast" plants.  This is what happens over the course of a species existence.  All the more reason at this point to ask the DEC for protections of native species.. These kings are as Native as the Lake Trout the DEC stocks and refers to as native.  

[Gill-T]

2 hours ago, HB2 said:

When I hear " teenager  " for king , what does that refer to ? 

 

Probably 12-17lbers

[BRsnow]

56 minutes ago, Tall Tails said:

What we are seeing now is the Lake Ontario strain of King Salmon.  They are no longer "West Coast" plants.  This is what happens over the course of a species existence.  All the more reason at this point to ask the DEC for protections of native species.. These kings are as Native as the Lake Trout the DEC stocks and refers to as native.  

When you look at Lake Michigan you are seeing the opposite, a drastic increase in overall size and larger big than we have seen in quite some time.

[HB2]

I consider a teenager a 2 year fish . Now what is the avg weight of that 2 year old  ? 

If returning to hatchery fish are avg 17 to 23 # , they must be 3 year olds for the most part  . Especially if there are no or very few 26 to 33 # fish . 

 

When I say I have a teens king I mean is  10 to 19 # . Not a 2 year old . I see a lot of speculation on here about how old a mid teens king is . Does anyone know for sure ? We are assuming a returning  fish of that weight is a 2 year old . We might be wrong on that . 

 

 

[spoonfed-1]

5 hours ago, HB2 said:

I consider a teenager a 2 year fish . Now what is the avg weight of that 2 year old  ? 

If returning to hatchery fish are avg 17 to 23 # , they must be 3 year olds for the most part  . Especially if there are no or very few 26 to 33 # fish . 

 

When I say I have a teens king I mean is  10 to 19 # . Not a 2 year old . I see a lot of speculation on here about how old a mid teens king is . Does anyone know for sure ? We are assuming a returning  fish of that weight is a 2 year old . We might be wrong on that . 

 

 

You seem to make a lot of assumptions. After 25 yrs of happily fishing the lake I would refer to a teenager just like my kids when they were growing up. 13 to 17 pounds was a teenager and always a two year old fish. !8 to 26 lbs was a 3 yr old and of course depends on whether we are talking spring or fall. You could argue the point all day without scientific proof of the age but why? Enjoy what you got because you will not change anything on a message board. In my experience fishing the east end, over the last 10 yrs the number of 2 yr old fish maturing has been on a steady increase. Whats a two year old fish? 12 to 15 lbs in the fall.

Edited May 21 by spoonfed-1

[Gill-T]

I think the lake managers would want to know if this large group of 12-14 lb fish are 2 vs 3 yrs old. The few I have cut open have developing gonads so my guess is naturalized three year olds. 

[Great_Laker]

You can find a lot of the data you are looking for in the annual DEC Lake Ontario Report. It is usually about a year behind because the data is still being collected and analyzed. Look for the “Population Characteristics of Pacific Salmonids Collected at the Salmon River Hatchery” section. It gives an overview of the size and age of chinook collected every year. 

https://dec.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2024-01/2022lakeontarioannualreport.pdf

[spoonfed-1]

2 hours ago, Gill-T said:

I think the lake managers would want to know if this large group of 12-14 lb fish are 2 vs 3 yrs old. The few I have cut open have developing gonads so my guess is naturalized three year olds. 

Then why don't the lake managers age these fish when they run up into the hatchery? And who says it's a large group. I guess you fish the Salmon river area of the lake all fall every fall? There has definitely been a steady increase of these 2 yr old fish maturing over the last 10 years.