I'm Struggling.

[DSM5578]

So this is my second year trolling. I am really struggling to catch fish. It seems when my family does go we may only catch one or two. I see people going 15/20 or so on so forth which sometimes gets discouraging. This past Sunday we went out for a few hours mid morning into the after noon out of olcott. I know this isn't the most ideal time but going out with my wife and 7 and 4 year old makes early mornings tough with the 1 hr 40 min ride. people at the launch were out at the same time catching fish. I spent the whole time changing speeds, depths, fow, lures and couldn't buy a bite. It seems I'm having alot of trips of no fish and get very discouraged especially for my family. I could really use some help if anyone would be willing. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

[HB2]

We all struggle sometimes . I have been doing this since the 70s and I still have bad days . 

 

I can tell you this , keep it simple . Less can be more .I don't know what you have for equipment . But riggers are the center of it . One spoon on each rigger, 25 ft leads for me , and maybe a dipsey or 2 should be plenty  . I run 5 rods max . Make what you have work . And I generally do as well as anyone out there . 

 

Use proven spoons . My favorites are, glo frog, Lazer spook , black silver , 42 second , NBK , carbon 14 . DW reg and Mags , Stingrays , Moonshine . Been doing better with reg size lately. 

 

Location is the first piece of the puzzle . Follow the pack. Don't get to close . 

 

Speed is relevant to your monitor . But generally 2.1 to 2.8 is good . And that's on a fish hawk or depth raider NOT gps , that's SOG or speed over bottom which is totally different . Direction of troll is important also so note that on the hit . 

 

Patience , you have to let what you have work . I use to change stuff constantly and wind up with a mess down there . How you drive the boat is critical IMO . Straight with slight S curves  . 

 

Good luck 

[Gator]

If it's any consolation, conditions changed dramatically late last week - all those 30 fish days went up in smoke over the weekend, and I know that many struggled on Sunday to put a few fish on.

 

That having been said, the learning curve is less steep if you spend some time on a boat that gets it done. Reach out to members here, offer to trade a trip, take a charter with one of the pros. Find a buddy boat and share intel, match speed...don't try to do it all yourself. That's why we have a community. Good luck!

[GAMBLER]

3 hours ago, DSM5578 said:

So this is my second year trolling. I am really struggling to catch fish. It seems when my family does go we may only catch one or two. I see people going 15/20 or so on so forth which sometimes gets discouraging. This past Sunday we went out for a few hours mid morning into the after noon out of olcott. I know this isn't the most ideal time but going out with my wife and 7 and 4 year old makes early mornings tough with the 1 hr 40 min ride. people at the launch were out at the same time catching fish. I spent the whole time changing speeds, depths, fow, lures and couldn't buy a bite. It seems I'm having alot of trips of no fish and get very discouraged especially for my family. I could really use some help if anyone would be willing. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Being consistent in the trout and salmon game, you need to pay attention to details.  Some days those details are very minor but make a world of difference.  Take Gator's advise!  There are a lot of guys on this site that are willing to help in one way or another!  Do you have a speed and temp unit on your boat?  IMO, speed and temp units are worth their weight on gold!  Last week, small temp breaks were holding fish.  If we saw a small temp break, we worked the area and it put a lot of fish in the boat.  If you just want to catch fish, laker fishing is a great way to put fish in the boat to keep the kids entertained.  They also offer better fishing mid day than the other species.  

[DSM5578]

3 hours ago, HB2 said:

We all struggle sometimes . I have been doing this since the 70s and I still have bad days . 

 

I can tell you this , keep it simple . Less can be more .I don't know what you have for equipment . But riggers are the center of it . One spoon on each rigger, 25 ft leads for me , and maybe a dipsey or 2 should be plenty  . I run 5 rods max . Make what you have work . And I generally do as well as anyone out there . 

 

Use proven spoons . My favorites are, glo frog, Lazer spook , black silver , 42 second , NBK , carbon 14 . DW reg and Mags , Stingrays , Moonshine . Been doing better with reg size lately. 

 

Location is the first piece of the puzzle . Follow the pack. Don't get to close . 

 

Speed is relevant to your monitor . But generally 2.1 to 2.8 is good . And that's on a fish hawk or depth raider NOT gps , that's SOG or speed over bottom which is totally different . Direction of troll is important also so note that on the hit . 

 

Patience , you have to let what you have work . I use to change stuff constantly and wind up with a mess down there . How you drive the boat is critical IMO . Straight with slight S curves  . 

 

Good luck 

Thanks for the input I have been running 2 riggers and 4 divers. Aside from Lakers I can't seem to get anythingto bite the riggers at all. I was running all spoons except one meat rig. Mostly running 2.4-2.8 on the depth raider.

[DSM5578]

3 hours ago, Gator said:

If it's any consolation, conditions changed dramatically late last week - all those 30 fish days went up in smoke over the weekend, and I know that many struggled on Sunday to put a few fish on.

 

That having been said, the learning curve is less steep if you spend some time on a boat that gets it done. Reach out to members here, offer to trade a trip, take a charter with one of the pros. Find a buddy boat and share intel, match speed...don't try to do it all yourself. That's why we have a community. Good luck!

That does definitely help hearing that the fishing did taper off and it was more challenging for everyone. I definitely do have to work on reaching out more often and being more open to communicating. I'm a huge introvert.

[DSM5578]

29 minutes ago, GAMBLER said:

Being consistent in the trout and salmon game, you need to pay attention to details.  Some days those details are very minor but make a world of difference.  Take Gator's advise!  There are a lot of guys on this site that are willing to help in one way or another!  Do you have a speed and temp unit on your boat?  IMO, speed and temp units are worth their weight on gold!  Last week, small temp breaks were holding fish.  If we saw a small temp break, we worked the area and it put a lot of fish in the boat.  If you just want to catch fish, laker fishing is a great way to put fish in the boat to keep the kids entertained.  They also offer better fishing mid day than the other species.  

I do have a depth raider. Speed I was keeping around 2.4-2.8. I had my depth raider down in the low 40's for temp

[AnglingAddict]

Try and find some guys to go out with occasionally who maybe have been doing this for a while - everyone does things a little different but it might help you to see how it's done.  The good guys do a lot of little things many guys might not even consider or pick up on.   Otherwise lots of good points in the discussion thread already.

[Jimmyi]

 

4 hours ago, DSM5578 said:

So this is my second year trolling. I am really struggling to catch fish. It seems when my family does go we may only catch one or two. I see people going 15/20 or so on so forth which sometimes gets discouraging. This past Sunday we went out for a few hours mid morning into the after noon out of olcott. I know this isn't the most ideal time but going out with my wife and 7 and 4 year old makes early mornings tough with the 1 hr 40 min ride. people at the launch were out at the same time catching fish. I spent the whole time changing speeds, depths, fow, lures and couldn't buy a bite. It seems I'm having alot of trips of no fish and get very discouraged especially for my family. I could really use some help if anyone would be willing. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

 

 

I started out as an observer in the tournaments, and I was blessed to able to meet some of the finest captains on the lake and to be able to fish with them.  I know many captains from Niagara to Oswego and also Canada that I have fished with, gone out to dinner with and just spent time talking fishing. I am personal friends with a lot of these guys.  I've been a member of LOTSA for 16 years.  I have only missed one Salmon School that LOTSA puts on since they started at the old 4H building.  If there was ever a trout/salmon seminar whether it was at LOTSA,  Dan Keating Salmon School, Gander Mountain, Cabela's, Erie and Western New York Sportsman Shows, Bass Pro or any other place, I would be there with my notebook taking notes and asking a lot of questions. Just like you, I remember struggling when I first started out and a great fisherman, Curt Meddaugh from LOTSA who passed away used to tell me, "Just hang in there, it will come".  Like Keith {Gator} and Brian {Gambler} said, go on a charter with a good captain who will share tips.  Watch their videos on YouTube.  Pay attention to details.  Get some books or videos by Dan Keating.  Go back to all of the old post on LOU in the Questions about Trout and Salmon Trolling, Fishing Reports and Tackle and Techniques sections.  Join a club, LOTSA {Lake Ontario Trout and Salmon Anglers}, ELOTSA {Eastern Lake Ontario Trout and Salmon Anglers}, LOCBA {Lake Ontario Charter Boat Association} and go to their meetings and seminars.  Sign up early when it is posted for the LOTSA Salmon School at the Greater Niagara Fishing Expo because it sells out.  Start putting a little money aside now because you may want to spend a couple extra days at the hotels and go to the seminars on Thursday and Friday before the school. You're going to find some good deals on tackle also.  A lot of great captains will be sharing information and tips. And like what Brian said, you will pick up the fine details that do make a difference.  "Just hang in there".

One more tip, if you're married, don't let your wife know how much you spend on fishing tackle and equipment.

[AnglingAddict]

11 minutes ago, Jimmyi said:

 

 

 

I started out as an observer in the tournaments, and I was blessed to able to meet some of the finest captains on the lake and to be able to fish with them.  I know many captains from Niagara to Oswego and also Canada that I have fished with, gone out to dinner with and just spent time talking fishing. I am personal friends with a lot of these guys.  I've been a member of LOTSA for 16 years.  I have only missed one Salmon School that LOTSA puts on since they started at the old 4H building.  If there was ever a trout/salmon seminar whether it was at LOTSA,  Dan Keating Salmon School, Gander Mountain, Cabela's, Erie and Western New York Sportsman Shows, Bass Pro or any other place, I would be there with my notebook taking notes and asking a lot of questions. Just like you, I remember struggling when I first started out and a great fisherman, Curt Meddaugh from LOTSA who passed away used to tell me, "Just hang in there, it will come".  Like Keith {Gator} and Brian {Gambler} said, go on a charter with a good captain who will share tips.  Watch their videos on YouTube.  Pay attention to details.  Get some books or videos by Dan Keating.  Go back to all of the old post on LOU in the Questions about Trout and Salmon Trolling, Fishing Reports and Tackle and Techniques sections.  Join a club, LOTSA {Lake Ontario Trout and Salmon Anglers}, ELOTSA {Eastern Lake Ontario Trout and Salmon Anglers}, LOCBA {Lake Ontario Charter Boat Association} and go to their meetings and seminars.  Sign up early when it is posted for the LOTSA Salmon School at the Greater Niagara Fishing Expo because it sells out.  Start putting a little money aside now because you may want to spend a couple extra days at the hotels and go to the seminars on Thursday and Friday before the school. You're going to find some good deals on tackle also.  A lot of great captains will be sharing information and tips. And like what Brian said, you will pick up the fine details that do make a difference.  "Just hang in there".

One more tip, if you're married, don't let your wife know how much you spend on fishing tackle and equipment.

Agree 100% - Salmon school is a great event - I was fortunate enough to be an instructor in 2023 along with Vince and Russell - there are also a lot of great free seminars at the LOTSA show - smaller rooms for the free seminars and a great chance to really ask a bunch of questions there as well.  Develop a network of fisherman who are out there and share info - what works what didn't.  Location is so important when it comes to being on active fish.  Having access to latest info on the water always helps from a starting point.  Bottom line - you have limited time to put it all together when out on the water - every day is different and over time you will start to "get it" and become more consistent day to day.

[idn713]

2 hours ago, DSM5578 said:

Thanks for the input I have been running 2 riggers and 4 divers. Aside from Lakers I can't seem to get anythingto bite the riggers at all. I was running all spoons except one meat rig. Mostly running 2.4-2.8 on the depth raider.

Your speed is good, start running flasher flies/spin doc flies on your divers. You will start to see your catch rate go up as most days the wire divers are a huge fish catcher. Run spoons on your riggers and then throw a couple of free sliders on each rigger line. That way each rigger covers multiple depths and the free sliders will get you into the steelhead and coho. My buddy and I usually run 4 rods. 1 diver on either side and two riggers each with a free slider. So we have 6 lures in the water and can dial the program from there. As for anything else, pay attention to the troll direction, current swings, and break lines. 

 

Here is a hot tip - as a small boat guy -  when the pack runs out deep as starts "pounding them" just stay between 90 and 150 FOW and find fish on your own. I cannot tell you the amount of times guys look at the fleet and just assume there are fish there. In my experience (unless water conditions are way out of wack) you can do just as well staying between 100-150 and it will give you FAR less water to focus on. 

 

 

[fishing fireman]

Keep a journal

 Write down weather conditions, what is working.Write down everything. all the details and you'll find fish are creatures of habit

 

[chinook35]

Don’t get discouraged. I’ve been fishing Lady O since the late 70’s   We all have great days and not so great days 

Capt Dan Keating said something that I’ve always felt was a deal maker “ salmon fishing is more like hunting than fishing , you’re got to find them to catch them “  they are here today gone tomorrow . 90 % of the water is a desert. When you find fish work them. Don’t leave fish to find fish 

Edited May 13 by chinook35

[13owhunter]

Some good advice above.  I second the salmon school.  Ive done the last two and picked up some good info each time. How long are your leaders on your dipseys? I ran 6 foot leads for a season and they didnt catch fish for me.  I switched to very long leaders and it has made a world of difference.

[DSM5578]

1 hour ago, 13owhunter said:

Some good advice above.  I second the salmon school.  Ive done the last two and picked up some good info each time. How long are your leaders on your dipseys? I ran 6 foot leads for a season and they didnt catch fish for me.  I switched to very long leaders and it has made a world of difference.

I tried to do the salmon school this year but it was booked solid before I got to it. My dipsey leads are 12 feet.

[Smat64]

From a novice weekend(hopefully) guy:

 

Did you see fish on the finder? Any come up or down to your bait and not bite. Thats when you might have a gear or gear depth issue. 
 

Finding fish is key and difficult on your own, especially if you are out fishing only so often. The fish and lake itself move all the time. 
 

all techniques and gear don’t matter if you are not on any fish. 

[whaler1]

What port do you normally fish out of?

[DSM5578]

6 minutes ago, whaler1 said:

What port do you normally fish out of?

Either Olcott or Sandy both are the same distance away.

[whaler1]

If you let folks know a day or two before you arrive at either I’m sure you could get some good intel. Let us know where or when you’re heading up. 
All good info, nice to see people stepping up. Mostly Sandy guys so far but if you pick Olcott I would definitely tail one of the charter boats. Don’t get within a quarter mile of them but to not follow their lead without other intel would be silly. 
Spread your spread a little. Run lures that aren’t particularly speed sensitive. 
Been an interesting spring, location has been everything. Feast or famine. Don’t waste time in cold clear water. 

[HB2]

Location is always everything 

 

 

[Silver Fox]

1 hour ago, DSM5578 said:

Either Olcott or Sandy both are the same distance away.

Look in your inbox for a message from me. 

[13owhunter]

Lots of good info on this thread and LOTS of people on here that are willing to help.  Next time you go out, share some details (in a new thread) of what you used, how you did etc. The more details the better.  This is very technical fishing and there is a learning curve.

 

For me, confidence was a big one my first couple of seasons.  I changed things up a lot and tended to overthink things.  I now have a pretty good bag of tricks that I am confident in. 

 

If you are running 12 foot dipsey leads that should be fine.

[Sk8man]

DSM5578 you have heard from some of the most proficient sport fishermen out there. A lot of valuable information which if this were the old days you might not be privy to it.....something to be carefully mulled over taking time to digest. I'm sure everyone on here has been in the same boat as you at some time in their fishing adventures and that should give you a lot of hope. Fishing Lake O for about 50 years now I've seen the ups and downs of many different aspects and it is worth mentioning there will pretty much always be a time when you don't connect with your hopes or expectations out there, and some of the time it may have nothing to do with you, or doing something wrong, or not doing something you should be doing. When you think of the lake in terms of water VOLUME instead of just distance from shore etc. you realize that there is a seemingly infinite space in which to operate. Some things become readily apparent in that much if not most of the water lack, structure in much of Lake O to hold fish there. Most of the salmon, and steelhead are pelagic which means that they travel for great distances and they don't generally hang around long in one spot (unless maybe food is available there), and they are not generally or necessarily bottom oriented either. One of the above tips mentioned keeping a diary of things that work, the conditions fished etc. and attention to detail. It is just as important when looking at the data recorded over time to note what DOESN'T work. That can serve as the basis for experimentation which can be critical to success when reviewed after a few times out. A lot of times you will hear "fish the marks" which can be valuable too but sometimes it is forgotten in the excitement of locating fish that many of the marks may not be the targeted species....there are many species available out there and a lot of them don't feed on the usual offerings for salmonids. Another frustrating thing is when you do mark fish and they won't hit no matter what you put out there, or how fast or slow you go it can be a matter of target fish that are just not hungry (may have fed previous night) or the wrong species; but the often experienced thought is "Am I doing something wrong?" which can lead to becoming discouraged when in fact it may have nothing to do with your techniques or even anything you are doing.  Take into serious consideration the tips given here and experiment with adjustments, record the changes and the results but most of all don't give up hope it is a series of successive approximations to the final result or solution and attention to detail that distinguishes the successful from unsuccessful fishing.

Edited May 14 by Sk8man

[TyeeTanic]

Perhaps the biggest strength of a seasoned fisherman is not the techniques learned over the years, but the network of other fishermen built over the years.

Talking to find out what depth, what speed, what direction, what colors, what type of bait ... and keeping that information live as it changes day by day ... that cuts

a lot of guesswork out.

 

Don't be afraid to make friends at the dock ... and contribute to a central repository of information.

 

Extract from those above, for a start ... the type of bait and colors that GENERALLY work this time of year, the depth (follow the pack), the speed, I'd say 1.8 mph to 2.8 mph ... start at 2.2 to 2.4 mph, and zig zag to get intel (outside line strike = the fish want faster speed, inside line = slower speed).  If you mark fish, go through them at different angles at a consistent speed ... they'll strike one direction, but not the other direction, all other variables being the same. Take note of what worked, even a bite that you lost ... speed, direction, bait, color, depth ... everything ... and hone in on what is working ... try to apply to the other rods (with maybe some variability in the bait type and maybe accent colors).

[HB2]

I think when you decide to go out , you need a starting game plan and a starting spot . From Oak to Bald Eagle ,to  Sandy, I have about 6 . These are inshore areas that have some sort of structure or drop offs that more than anything else ,affect the current .  There always ( as long as there is good water ) some fish on or around them . I fish that spot and gradually move out till I hopefully find fish . I team up with a few guys on here when they go and we text back and forth to eliminate water . Sometimes I'm on my own but I have confidence in my ability to find and catch fish . Finding fish is 90% of it .  I really don't change lures a lot till I see some sort of activity down there . If you have proven lures down in the strike zone , you will probably hookup if they are active . Once you venture off shore it's a crap shoot . If you find fish it can be great , if not , a long ride. If the lake flips ,it basically your only choice to run offshore till you find warmer water . I start fishing at 65 during summer once the lake sets up and the lake flips .