What's your opinion of the current state of our fishery?

[BRsnow]

Having a smaller boat back in the day we consistently took larger kings is far too warm of water for the typical comfort zone but it was better than not fishing. So I do believe plenty stay in warmer water all year.

[LongLine]

You've both made some very good points.  I however have many questions to which I'll probably never have an answer.

 

Yes, it's been my experience that bigger salmon come from the depths, however shakers that I've caught come from warmer depths. while looking for steelhead.  48 in 1985 is the same 48 today, yet today the kings are smaller than back then not only in Lake Ontario but big time smaller in Alaska where the temps are much colder year-round than Lake Ontario.  The kings caught in 48 today are smaller than way back then.  Browns seem to have gotten a lot bigger than way back then. (Could temperature have made them eat more gobies?)  What does a 48 degree King eat?  What's down there?  Or does he frequently come up to feast on alewives?

 

I've read someplace that Kings can't survive in water temperature over 72F regardless of spawning condition because their metabolism speeds up so much that their guts turn to mush.

 

Milder winters here have greatly contributed to the increase in alewife numbers.  What have the milder winters done to salmon?  Eggs & milt have been collected out of warmer water.  Is metabolism determined at a fish's birth?  or the first few months of life?  I don't know.  Does an 8-inch King head directly out to where the bigger ones are?  I doubt it.

 

From that article, I surmise there must be an ideal temperature for birth and early development.  I don't know what it is.  I believe the SR tanks are spring fed, but are they strictly maintained at a given temperature?  The right temperature?  Net Pens are great for survival but are they good for growth?  Aren't they generally in shallow water or high in the water column?  I've never seen a temperature profile of the Genny.

 

Research that I've seen on Kings in Lake Ontario keys on survival. The question is whether there is a tradeoff between survival & growth that is acceptable.  (NO, I'm not advocating for a cut in stocking number!)  I will however ask if SOME (not all) the stocked kings can be given some kind of "growth hormone". After all, they are treated for disease and deficiency issues.

 

Luck to all.

 

 

Edited July 7 by LongLine

[Gill-T]

Only one fish over 30 lbs in the Canadian Derby so far.  This is a lakewide phenomenon. 

[BRsnow]

KD tournament in WI I believe the top 10 were all 30lb and up. In MI a one day tournament this weekend, biggest king was 34lb I believe. They are also have the quantity like lake O this year. Not too long ago kings were small and limited in number. Might be worth looking at their approach as of late

[GAMBLER]

5 minutes ago, BRsnow said:

KD tournament in WI I believe the top 10 were all 30lb and up. In MI a one day tournament this weekend, biggest king was 34lb I believe. They are also have the quantity like lake O this year. Not too long ago kings were small and limited in number. Might be worth looking at their approach as of late

We did.  We cut stocking 50% and then raised it when bait biomass rebounded.  Their king size rebounded, ours didn't. 

[HB2]

According to the correspondence I had with a high ranking DEC official who asked me not to post our back and forth on here for obvious reasons, Lake Michigan kings are the same as LO kings . We have all caught a bunch of kings this year . What I noticed about the 2 board king we caught were they had shoulders , girth , whatever you want to call it . A lot of the ones we catch look like Skamania steelhead . Long And skinny . Maybe it's just me . 

[Gill-T]

Lots of skinny kings and steelhead. The same is going on with Erie walleye. Too many mouths to feed to support a trophy fishery. 

[whaler1]

Or is it that they are 2 or 3 year old kings and not many are hanging out till they’re 4?

[Gill-T]

Single digit percentage of kings make it to 4 years. 

[BRsnow]

2 hours ago, whaler1 said:

Or is it that they are 2 or 3 year old kings and not many are hanging out till they’re 4?

Maybe next year will be epic with all the 2-3 being 3-4 next year.

[Gill-T]

These are 90% three year olds being caught IMO. They have developing gonads. With that being said, single digit percentage of kings making it to four years old off a huge class of fish means there should be historically big numbers of four year olds based on pure volume for next year

[GAMBLER]

Anyone seeing any Skips?  I have seen very few in the last month or so.  

[Gill-T]

Very few and small

[Scalloper 1]

I first fish Lake O in 1996. Back then in the spring the streams were full of smelt. I am guessing the lack of higher quality smelt may be some of the reason for smaller kings.

[BRsnow]

I am pretty optimistic for next year.

[HB2]

Very few skips ,which is a bad sign . 

 

If Lake Michigan kings have rebounded , it has to be bait .

 

The optimism for next year may be suspect . Many years we have had great fishing , been excited for the following year and it was a dud . This has happened before . So enjoy what you have now . 

 

[Sweet Caroline]

11 hours ago, GAMBLER said:

Anyone seeing any Skips?  I have seen very few in the last month or so.  

Could be that all the 3 year olds are pushing everything else out of the prime water. I’ve found that when we are catching so many 3 year olds like we are now you pretty much don’t catch much of anything else. They are super aggressive and tend to travel together in packs….or call it hordes this year. Sounds like boats that venture out of the prime zone catch more of a mixed bag. IDK, just an observation and theory. I also agree, too many mouths to feed to support a trophy fishery. Even with all the bait that is a lot of competition and more energy burned to chase them. I feel that the same environmental conditions that support a good alewife hatch also support good king natural reproduction. Wasn’t it the 2021 or 202 bait hatch that was insane? All theory’s of course. Only Mother Nature knows for sure. We certainly could have worse problems than too many fish to catch lol

Edited July 24 by Sweet Caroline

[GAMBLER]

2 hours ago, HB2 said:

Very few skips ,which is a bad sign . 

 

If Lake Michigan kings have rebounded , it has to be bait .

 

The optimism for next year may be suspect . Many years we have had great fishing , been excited for the following year and it was a dud . This has happened before . So enjoy what you have now . 

 

Probably cannibalized by the huge number of kings this year!

[GAMBLER]

4 minutes ago, Sweet Caroline said:

Could be that all the 3 year olds are pushing everything else out of the prime water. I’ve found that when we are catching so many 3 year olds like we are now you pretty much don’t catch much of anything else. They are super aggressive and tend to travel together in packs….or call it hordes this year. Sounds like boats that venture out of the prime zone catch more of a mixed bag. IDK, just an observation and theory. I also agree, too many mouths to feed to support a trophy fishery. Even with all the bait that is a lot of competition and more energy burned to chase them. I feel that the same environmental conditions that support a good alewife hatch also support good king natural reproduction. Wasn’t it the 2021 or 202 bait hatch that was insane? All theory’s of course. Only Mother Nature knows for sure. We certainly could have worse problems than too many fish to catch lol

I usually catch a lot of skips when targeting browns.  This season it has been void of skips for the most part.  

[bettieanne]

Sorry if this was asked already.. but where did all these fish come from?  Or what has caused these fish to feed so aggressively? Many years out on the lake and never witnessed a bite as long and constant as it currently is. Great year to get new people into the sport fishing game. 

[Yankee Troller]

10 minutes ago, bettieanne said:

Sorry if this was asked already.. but where did all these fish come from?  Or what has caused these fish to feed so aggressively? Many years out on the lake and never witnessed a bite as long and constant as it currently is. Great year to get new people into the sport fishing game. 

 

One thing is constant, unless they are lying to us, the US and Canada stock the same amount of fish each year. The variable is the wild reproduction. I'm not very smart, but I'd guess there was a banner wild reproduction class.

[RH93]

If the population is too high, would it make sense to increase the daily limit?

[HB2]

Ok , I just checked . In 2021 as I remember we had an awfully lot of rain in the fall . The kings that usually stack up in front of my cottage till  they get a flow and run the creek got sucked up in the system . The skien fishing that year wasn't great so I went upstream fly fishing , because there was good flow and I don't go when there is low water .   It was lights out and was all fall till mid Dec. I'm sure all the South shore streams experienced the same . 

And 3 years later we have great king fishing . Coincidence ? 

[Crestliner]

Used to go snagin back when legal used gramps old 16 ft. duracrft with 9.9 johnsons, snaggin them monster side ways ye haw. Not very sporty but what a fight this was at the Oak. Them suckers looked fitty pounds to me. Towed the boat up and down for 1/2hr. bent nets staighten out snag hook. Half dead my ass! early 80's

[Crestliner]

Same thing now at Salmon River hooking them legal in the mouth with out lifting . they bite( cause there pissed you wing flies at there girl friends) Hang on I'm 66 and that is a young mans game. Wanna get spooled try that in creek 10 ft.wide 1 foot of water. Again half dead my ass!