What's your opinion of the current state of our fishery?

[rolmops]

There might be an answer in this by checking the evolutionary development differences between Lake Michigan and Lake Ontario fish.

[Crestliner]

On 8/9/2024 at 9:28 PM, BRsnow said:

They are called kings for a reason. If you are catching smaller fish, steelhead are more fun and coho taste better.

You could always jump off the bridge in Pulaski ( just happen did not end well) and put an end to your pitiful complaining guys. Catching any fish is just plain fun (Give me a break) whiners!!! was up there this Sunday did'nt even put a line in water, low in the private trout brook and Orwell far reaches i get to fish with flys and ya there not half dead trollers. I do both and enjoy both get the F over it .!!! And they do bite !!! beside s there are hungry cohos and steelies and occasional atlantic, suckin eggs right behind them natural spawning kings.That are more fun to fight in a little 10 ft wide stream clear as day than any fish horsed in off the back of a boat !! The stocked king and steelies go right death at the hatchery, the naturals try to jump f en barrier gate to get to spawning grounds. . This year we will be fishin kings in Dec. if they don't get any rain . Reservoir is down 8ft. in Redfeild !!! Guys are still catchin silver kings Jiggin out in the lake. Fish on bothers of the fin!!! It not always about the overpriced charter crap!! Dead salmon make good bear bait ya know !!!

[Gator]

Tell us how you really feel, after you have another drink lol

[Jm1984]

It’s not even 7am and we have witnessed the murder of the English language.

[Yankee Troller]

8 hours ago, Crestliner said:

You could always jump off the bridge in Pulaski ( just happen did not end well) and put an end to your pitiful complaining guys. Catching any fish is just plain fun (Give me a break) whiners!!! was up there this Sunday did'nt even put a line in water, low in the private trout brook and Orwell far reaches i get to fish with flys and ya there not half dead trollers. I do both and enjoy both get the F over it .!!! And they do bite !!! beside s there are hungry cohos and steelies and occasional atlantic, suckin eggs right behind them natural spawning kings.That are more fun to fight in a little 10 ft wide stream clear as day than any fish horsed in off the back of a boat !! The stocked king and steelies go right death at the hatchery, the naturals try to jump f en barrier gate to get to spawning grounds. . This year we will be fishin kings in Dec. if they don't get any rain . Reservoir is down 8ft. in Redfeild !!! Guys are still catchin silver kings Jiggin out in the lake. Fish on bothers of the fin!!! It not always about the overpriced charter crap!! Dead salmon make good bear bait ya know !!!

 

Weird, a fly guy mentioned an Atlantic.

 

I agree these Salmon are no good this time of year hence why we need the Salmon River closed, like the Canadian tribs, so the Salmon (fish managed for the Lake) can do their thing and our best genes aren't yanked out in a ditch.

 

As for your over-priced comment. Please go out and purchase a nice boat, equipment to be successful day in and day out, and report back to us if it was smarter to book a few charters each season. Especially, since most of the clientele live more than a few hours away.

 

Lastly, may God help you with your grammar in future posts, or you cold just fix the words with the squiggly red lines while your hammering away on the keyboard.

[HB2]

These kings are far from worthless this time of year . I contend they are as hard to get to hit as anytime during the season . I have landed more than a few on a long rod and lite line and get fight great . Not like dragging one in on a 500 copper but fun just the same . 

 

Drive thru Pulaski Sun morning on the way home from the ADKs . An awful lot of money changing hands there . 

 

Excuse my spelling and grandma 

 

 

 

[Yankee Troller]

46 minutes ago, HB2 said:

Excuse my spelling and grandma 

 

 

47 minutes ago, HB2 said:

Drive thru Pulaski Sun morning on the way home from the ADKs . An awful lot of money changing hands there . 

 

Ya, we should turn a blind eye to the dirt bags that come here every year becasue they "spend money." I say dirt bags becasue they break regulations and limits up there with a lack of respect for the Salmon fishery.

 

ONE piece of this lake benefits from this Fall Salmon run, but the WHOLE lake suffers from the best genes getting dragged out before they get to the hatchery. Canadian North Shore is your perfect example. They get big fish in the Summer. Their streams are closed during the Fall run, and the big dogs breed the big dogs. Enough about Pulaski businesses needing this. The rest of the small towns around the lake survive.

[HB2]

So arrest and fine heavily  the violators . This everyone should pay for the actions of a few ain't right .

 

 

 

Many of us fish legit in the streams . Probably more than most think.  

 

Yup , the outlaws are out there . Fine them . 

 

I really enjoy the thrill and change of trib fishing . So why should that not be available to those who would like to do that ? 

 

Fishing was lights out this year . What more do you want ? 

 

 

 

[Yankee Troller]

38 minutes ago, HB2 said:

So arrest and fine heavily  the violators . This everyone should pay for the actions of a few ain't right .

 

 

 

Many of us fish legit in the streams . Probably more than most think.  

 

Yup , the outlaws are out there . Fine them . 

 

I really enjoy the thrill and change of trib fishing . So why should that not be available to those who would like to do that ? 

 

Fishing was lights out this year . What more do you want ? 

 

 

 

 

I want great fishing and bigger fish. BOTH of which can be achieved by closing down the Salmon River during "Salmon" season. Open it up Nov 1st and have at it with the steelhead. The rest of the south shore can be the wild west for all I care. The Salmon River is the only conducive stream for natural reproduction year in and year out. It is also the stream our eggs/sperm get taken from so the hatchery can do its thing, and I want the best genes being used instead of them being dragged out of the river by their tails.

[HB2]

47 minutes ago, Yankee Troller said:

 

I want great fishing and bigger fish. BOTH of which can be achieved by closing down the Salmon River during "Salmon" season. 

You don't know that for sure . Nobody does . That's pure speculation at this point .  

 

This year I saw more bait in the lake than I have in a long while . Probably since the early 90s . Let's have 5 years of that and then see what happens size wise . But I'm on board with Longline about the nutritional value of today's alwives compared to long ago . 

 

Not every big king gets dragged out by its tail so to speak . Some make it to the hatchery or naturally reproduce . So there should be a few bigger fish in our catch as a whole lakeside .  

 

I got a 27#and change I weighed J plugging a few weeks ago  so there are some big ones out there . And my scale is very accurate. 

 

And we are comparing ourselves to Socialist Canada now ? 

[Yankee Troller]

7 minutes ago, HB2 said:

You don't know that for sure . Nobody does . That's pure speculation at this point .  

 

Canadian tribs are closed down to Salmon fishing. Year in, and year out, they absolutely obliterate us when it comes to big fish. I'd say it's more than speculation. Also, the SR is the main natural reproducing trib on the South Shore and come Summer (July/Aug) when the Salmon are inhabiting the whole lake the East end tends to get a larger sized fish. I've watched this for years.. Are those SR naturals?

[Gill-T]

Nothing wrong with catch and release the entire river until November 1st. The problem with violators is they are getting off because too many judges don’t care. There was a recent deer poaching incident on federally restricted railroad property near Buffalo. The guy was caught in the act, hunting over bait and validated with the guys own trail cam pictures. The slam dunk case went to judge Buscaglia who made it go away with no real penalties. I would hope a judge near Pulaski would understand the importance but most judges will not stand up for the environment because the environment doesn’t vote. Lots of wrist slapping to keep jails clear. 

[Jm1984]

I disagree. There is a problem with catching release. The fish are already in a weaker state when they run up the rivers to spawn so if they get snagged or even hooked in the mouth, the amount of energy that they’re going to expel fighting is gonna lead to higher mortality pre-spawn so therefore you’ve just defeated the entire purpose.   I live on the North Shore and I can tell you that tributaries that are closed are closed for the reason that they have high natural runs, and it is to protect those natural runs.  I have to agree with Rick that the more fish you can allow to reproduce naturally in the streams that are conducive to reproduction the higher odds you have of seeing more big fish.  It gives the highest chance for genetic variation to produce larger fish.

Edited October 8 by Jm1984
Spelling

[Gill-T]

Those are small skinny water trips up there on your North Shore.   The Salmon River can handle catch and release. 

[Jm1984]

The issue isn’t with the depth of the river or creek. The issue is the wear and tear on the fish when they’re already degrading and then they have to deal with the fight.   The strain that the fight will put them under is going to lead to higher mortality

[Gill-T]

Jm, the Salmon already has a catch and release section. Fish do fine. 

[LongLine]

I think we're going to get into the age-old argument of "us vs them" if a stream/river is closed, so how about the DEC add to the Salmon limit regulations: 

 

"From Labor Day until Halloween, all Chinook Salmon over 33" long must be returned to the water unharmed in both the open lake and in all tribs/rivers." 

 

or

 

"All year, an angler can keep only one Chinook Salmon over 33" long per day in the open water or in tribs/rivers."

(Like the Lake Trout reg)

 

This could be added on a temporary basis for say 3-5 years, to see if it makes any difference. 

[Jm1984]

So because it works in one small section of a large river it therefore works on the entire system with no repercussions?   
 

There’s a catch and release section for the fisherman to appease them, not because it’s good for the fish.

[BRsnow]

It is good to see discussion and a general consensus the fishery needs a change to get back to more balance of high numbers with large fish mixed in.

[HB2]

I just looked at the Canadian summer derby results for this year . Their sizes were comparable to ours . I know every once in a while I see one that's maybe 35 # . That's not a whole lot bigger than our biggest derby winners . 

 

Caught some nice skien under a float kings this afternoon . Man do those fish fight . Amazes me the power these zombie fish have . 

 

 

 

 

[rolmops]

On 10/8/2024 at 3:06 PM, HB2 said:

xxxx

 

Edited October 10 by rolmops

[rolmops]

37 minutes ago, rolmops said:

xxxx

 

[rolmops]

The current state of fishing  is a result of two interests colliding.

The reason why salmon was introduced into the lake was to control the alewive population. The introduction of the salmon created the salmon fishery which became a very succesful recreational activity.

So where do these interests collide? In the hatchery!

The original gene pool introduced into the lake was mostly very big fish, but during the difficult winters it was very hard for the large fast growing fish to find enough food and a lot died of starvation. The smaller fish, which needed less food to survive, had better survival rates and by natural selection became the majority fish. With the natural reproduction increasing and the lower need for food the smaller fish became more and more the typical Lake Ontario salmon.

Many small fish with higher survival rates control the alewive population just as good as big fish, but are less prone to population collapse.

So the DEC is successful  as far as alewive population control is concerned.

A few weeks ago, I was in the hatchery and while watching the fish swimming up the ladder I saw that the great majority of fish was in the 10 to 15 pound range with only a few in the 20 pounds+ range. I did not see any 30 pound and up fish

The egg taking system currently used, is picking a narrow time slot and taking all the eggs in that time slot. I believe that it is not easy to work fast while also selecting only the large fish. specially since there are not that many large specimens and it is very tiresome work. It might be a good idea to stretch the egg taking period to more days so the workers will have more fish to choose from and have energy left to pick out the big ones. That way the smaller fish will have less reproduction potential.

Another way to reverse the trend of the fish getting smaller is by bringing fresh genetic stock from the west coast for a number of years in order to reintroduce the large fish genetics  into the lake. This should be done for not one year but probably for 5 or 6 years.

With climate change slowly making the probability of real cold winters smaller, the bigger ones will have a good chance to re-establish themselves. Or so I hope.

At this point in time, there is no real reason for the DEC to take these actions because the alewive population is under control and for us as a group it is useless to confront them because they have the decision making power.

Currently we have Lotsa  and Elosta. Maybe these 2 groups and a group of charter boat captains should make a united front as a special interest group and try to work with politicians in order to make the DEC take the steps to change their policy.

Sorry for being so long winded.

 

Edited October 10 by rolmops

[Gator]

Much as it pains me to side with folks who are doing things I don't agree with, I suspect that in terms of angler involvement, the Pulaski sh$t show draws as many folks to Lady O as the open water fishery. Management needs to occur both to protect the resource as well as to maximize its use by the public. Tough balancing act, but IMHO you can't argue that the fishery is less than stellar for salmon. Yeah, I'd like to see some 30s in the mix. But not at the expense of alienating an entire sector of the fishing community. I do get why others may feel differently.

[LongLine]

The lengths of 3 year old Chinook salmon have been getting shorter and shorter over the years.  More and more have spawned earlier in their life cycle. This has been happening on the west coast also. All the food in the world isn't going to make them longer.  Food makes them fatter.  If food made a person taller, more muscular, live longer, then an awful lot of people would be 9 ft tall, be built like Mr. America and live well over 100.
 

It takes reasonably tall parentage to have tall kids.