Lamprey Eel Information Update

[dreamsteelie]

Folks,

Let's all keep the discussion in check and related to this, please.  I reached out to my contact at the GLFC this week to clarify some of the good discussion topics on the other thread and to get some up to date information on how things have been done recently and or in the past. See the answers below: Some of this was not known to myself, so it was good to get some clarifications-because things to change.  Some of this information ties into what several of you posted, like seeing some CND DFO folks on the US side in one particular instance.

 

Not sure how many took the time to reach out to their congressman via email or written but we did so in PA.  Will it help?  It cannot hurt.

 

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) conducts stream treatments on behalf of the GLFC in U.S. tributaries and waters of the Great Lakes. Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) conducts stream treatments on behalf of the GLFC in Canadian tributaries and waters of the Great Lakes. A wrinkle is that DFO also conducts some stream treatments in the U.S. – mainly on U.S. tributaries to Lake Ontario

 

See answer to 1. above. Also, the U.S. Geological Survey and U.S. Army Corps of Engineers assists the GLFC in some aspects of sea lamprey control (quality assurance testing and regulatory agency compliance for lampricides and construction and maintenance of sea lamprey barriers, respectively). We also partner with many State, Tribal, and First Nation entities on various aspects of sea lamprey control as well.

 

Trout or salmon kills associated with stream treatments are rare. I am not aware of any recent ones in Lake Ontario tributaries on either side of the border. These rare incidents typically occur with chinook salmon and only when treatments overlap spawning runs when fish are already stressed and near death.

 

I have attached last year’s treatment schedule. These are posted on the GLFC website (www.glfc.org) when available (usually during the spring of each year). They are usually under the “Hot Topics” portion of the website.

 

12 permanent employees were fired. 6 were tasked with stream treatments; 5 were tasked with larval assessment surveys that are used to guide stream treatments; 1 was tasked with sea lamprey barrier work. We also lost 5 additional permanent employees to the Deferred Resignation Program. We have not been able to backfill any of these positions. These 17 employees account for 20% of permanent staff. Additionally, a hiring freeze prevented the timely hiring of 25 seasonal staff needed to fill out sea lamprey control crews. The hiring freeze has since been lifted and we are proceeding with hiring these staff, however, the delay will result in these staff not being available at the start of the field season. As things stand now, we are going to lose about a third of our capacity to control sea lamprey during 2025

 

We are still waiting for a transmitter that is small enough to insert into sea lamprey without affecting their behavior. Research is ongoing and I believe some will be tagged with transmitters this year, but this will mostly be to see how the lamprey behave with the transmitter in them (compared to those without a transmitter). We have other ways of finding spawning streams too.

 

. www.sealamprey.org will get you a lot of information about sea lamprey control.

 

Captain Pete

Vision Quest Sport Fishing

[spoonfed-1]

  On 3/13/2025 at 9:30 PM, dreamsteelie said:

Folks,

Let's all keep the discussion in check and related to this, please.  I reached out to my contact at the GLFC this week to clarify some of the good discussion topics on the other thread and to get some up to date information on how things have been done recently and or in the past. See the answers below: Some of this was not known to myself, so it was good to get some clarifications-because things to change.  Some of this information ties into what several of you posted, like seeing some CND DFO folks on the US side in one particular instance.

 

Not sure how many took the time to reach out to their congressman via email or written but we did so in PA.  Will it help?  It cannot hurt.

 

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) conducts stream treatments on behalf of the GLFC in U.S. tributaries and waters of the Great Lakes. Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) conducts stream treatments on behalf of the GLFC in Canadian tributaries and waters of the Great Lakes. A wrinkle is that DFO also conducts some stream treatments in the U.S. – mainly on U.S. tributaries to Lake Ontario

 

See answer to 1. above. Also, the U.S. Geological Survey and U.S. Army Corps of Engineers assists the GLFC in some aspects of sea lamprey control (quality assurance testing and regulatory agency compliance for lampricides and construction and maintenance of sea lamprey barriers, respectively). We also partner with many State, Tribal, and First Nation entities on various aspects of sea lamprey control as well.

 

Trout or salmon kills associated with stream treatments are rare. I am not aware of any recent ones in Lake Ontario tributaries on either side of the border. These rare incidents typically occur with chinook salmon and only when treatments overlap spawning runs when fish are already stressed and near death.

 

I have attached last year’s treatment schedule. These are posted on the GLFC website (www.glfc.org) when available (usually during the spring of each year). They are usually under the “Hot Topics” portion of the website.

 

12 permanent employees were fired. 6 were tasked with stream treatments; 5 were tasked with larval assessment surveys that are used to guide stream treatments; 1 was tasked with sea lamprey barrier work. We also lost 5 additional permanent employees to the Deferred Resignation Program. We have not been able to backfill any of these positions. These 17 employees account for 20% of permanent staff. Additionally, a hiring freeze prevented the timely hiring of 25 seasonal staff needed to fill out sea lamprey control crews. The hiring freeze has since been lifted and we are proceeding with hiring these staff, however, the delay will result in these staff not being available at the start of the field season. As things stand now, we are going to lose about a third of our capacity to control sea lamprey during 2025

 

We are still waiting for a transmitter that is small enough to insert into sea lamprey without affecting their behavior. Research is ongoing and I believe some will be tagged with transmitters this year, but this will mostly be to see how the lamprey behave with the transmitter in them (compared to those without a transmitter). We have other ways of finding spawning streams too.

 

. www.sealamprey.org will get you a lot of information about sea lamprey control.

 

Captain Pete

Vision Quest Sport Fishing

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[LongLine]

Thanx for the update. 

[Gill-T]

Nice work Pete, and thank god nobody has mentioned anything political, although there was a blood red Trump moon out tonight 😂
 

 

[GAMBLER]

Pete,

 

Can we volunteer to help?  I would be more than willing to take some vacation time to help keep our fishery running.  I am willing to bet, we could get plenty of volunteers!

[HB2]

If the Feds are not funding this and it looks like they are kicking more and more to the states , a concerted effort to take this Lamprey abatement stuff over and do it in house should happen.  We probably have most  or all of the equipment to do it . The state is doing Eurasian Millfoil  abatement in ADK lakes , so it's not like the state doesn't have tecks that have some experience in this . The state has people on the payroll with the knowledge , most likely and the equipment to do this , so the actual cost would be the Lampricide itself and fuel to get the trucks and testing stuff to the stream locations . 

This should be a significant savings from subbing this out to a Canadian firm . And the state controls the destiny of its resource. 

[rolmops]

Besides, the state can offer those who were fired at least temporary jobs to do the work. The problem here is that the wheels of bureaucracy turn slowly. I am not sure that there is a Canadian firm involved. These Canadians are quite possibly full time employees of the Canadian government. Maybe using the Canadian manpower and equipment is the most economical way to go.

Edited March 17 by rolmops

[Gill-T]

The milfoil removal I have seen was paid for by a trust. In Skaneatles they remove the stuff by hand with divers. We may reach a point where we need to have a fishing tournament to support Lampricide treatments. 

[HB2]

I fish an ADK lake quite a bit . One day I was launching and saw 3 canoes with green ADK shirts at the launch . I asked , " are you guys having a class ? " They said no we found an invasive species . Next year I came back and all the weed beds I fished were gone along with the big pike  . Found out from one of the stewards they did in fact poison the lake . 

 

Why would we hire people when we already have people on the payroll that should be able to do this ? 

[dreamsteelie]

 

Not sure how many anglers see this publication:  called Great Lakes Daily News from the Great lakes Commission-which is different from the Great lakes Fishery Commission.

 

Many good articles about what's happening currently on the Great Lakes

 

https://us13.campaign-archive.com/?e=5588c18d67&u=5b672d7c62922dbb20bc7549e&id=5d80a18af6

 

 

Edited March 18 by dreamsteelie

[dreamsteelie]

Just returned home from the Lower lakes meeting held in Niagara Falls; Ontario.  Some updates for those interested:

 

The Canadian deficit was mostly paid back.  It approached around 10 million US a while back, so I asked for an update and was told things are good again.  Canada is responsible for about 32% and US 68% of the annual funding.  The Great Lakes Fishery commission has about a budget of $25 million annually.

 

The 12 to 14 folks that were terminated were all offered their jobs back within last 72 hours.  Some accepted but some did not.  I don't know the exact #.  However, 5 additional folks accepted the early exit program/buy out. 

Lake Ontario exhibited the worst Lamprey Eel wounding rate of ALL of the Great Lakes in 2024 and was a direct result of the lack of treatments in 2020 and 2021.  (See pic attached) No treatments were done on lake Erie or Ontario those 2 years. This information is provided by: angler creel surveys, trap netting, gill nets and the markings are recorded from the Salmon River hatchery returns.

 

DFO(Canadian Fisheries and Oceans Canada) will cost likely continue the TFM treatment service in Lake Ontario in the immediate future.  I did not get a good explanation of reason as to why they treat Lake O but they are contracted by USFW/GLFC to do Lake O . (Assume its lack of personnel?)

 

The Eel markings decreased in 2024 and are related to the treatments that started back up in 2022/2023. Again proof of how important the treatments are.

 

12 locations are scheduled in lake Ontario (N and S shores) in 2025 and 4 in Lake Erie. Most of the 12 Lake O areas will be on the eastern end.

 

They rolled out this, which hit home even more: Call in the DOMINO EFFECT

Dead fish don't spawn-so how many additional salmon and trout did not spawn as a result of losing their life to Lamprey? 

Less fish for anglers to catch.

The scarring is less appetizing to anglers when they do catch a fish

Estimated 114,000 increase in lampreys in Lake O as a result of non treatment years.  That equated to 4.5 million pounds of fish lost, and $100,000 million in lost fish investment, just in Lake Ontario.

 

GLFC will lose about 25% of their needed Lamprey Eel funding in 2025.  The goal is to have it restored for 2026 now. The GLFC folks seem somewhat positive about funding being restored but asked once again to rattle the chains and contact your reps. about this.

 

For you Lake Erie-NY fisher folks:

The Total Allowable Catch (TAC) for Yellow Perch was reduced by about 10% as a result of lower estimated perch populations and young of the year. 6.6 mil fish to 5.8 mil fish.

The Total Allowable Catch (TAC) for Walleye was reduced by about 12% as a result of lower estimated perch populations and young of the year. 12.8 million pounds of fish to 11.3 million pounds of fish.

FYI-there was a "control" method developed and  put into place on Lake Erie. I was part of this process, which took over 3 years (from memory) to finally come up with a model that seemed to work and be accepted by all stake holders on Lake Erie (including commercial and sport). It was a long process and many meetings.  End result was a formula where TAC allowed would never increase more than 20% in  a given year and would never be decreased by more than 20%.  Most of that was crucial to the Lake Erie trap netters (US side) and Ontario netters.   The walleye TAC was increased in 2023 as an example but 2024 results showed a decrease in stocks and year classes, so the lower TAC kicked in.  

 

I should have additional info next week from Washington.

 

Below you will see the wounding chart which shows the results of 2 years on not treatment !

 

I will mention this movie again-Its a good watch and very educational.

 

https://www.thefishthief.com/

 

Captain Pete

Vision Quest Sport Fishing

 

 

 

[Gill-T]

Thanks Pete. Good stuff. 

[GAMBLER]

Thanks Pete.  Keep the info coming! 

[LongLine]

Thanx Pete.  I appreciate the info. 

[Gator]

Awesome reporting, Pete. Thank you.

[r5dogs]

Thanks Pete!

[HB2]

With this info , all the more reason to grab the bull by the horns and make a concerted effort to have this done by NYS DEC . 

 

 

[dreamsteelie]

Update: 3.27.25   

I was invited to DC to address this issue with some politicians, see the process, watch the roll out of The Fish Thief movie during their DCEFF (the Environmental Film Festival in the Nation’s Capital (DCEFF))at the Canadian embassy, sit on a panel after the movie and obtain some additional information:   It was a good experience including meeting the man that produced the Fish Thief movie.

 

It would appear that the overall program will see 25% less stream treatments Great Lake wide in 2025. Primarily due to the lack of experienced employees to administer the treatments.  The funding from CND and US is whole.  So, bad news/good news.  The goal of the GLFC is to keep the funding as is at the minimum but requested more to help offset the tariffs and to build more barriers for 2026.  The request for additional funds is being made. Some of the TFM components come from China Greg McClinchey told me and they estimated a potential hit of $475K in added tariff cost.

 

The vibe I received by all is that things will be back on track next year but I witnessed the efforts and know the efforts the GLFC is doing to help keep this program in full effect. Their goal is to keep the heat on and keep politicians informed.

 

The article below is good to read.  I spent all day Tuesday with Greg (8:30am-11:00pm more or less) He explains things well in the article.  He also explained that when DOGE enacted the mass terminations everywhere it was for "probationary" level employees. He explained that many of these 12 USFW were classified as probationary because most were moved into "different" positions BUT were experienced long time employees actually with USFW.  It was their "classification" which led to the terminations-Per Greg.  They also rely on 25 seasonal staff to assist with the implementation of the program.  The other issue that needs resolved is the ban on travel spending. He said currently that travel expenses are halted but obviously needed to send USFW personnel to perform treatments.  It was unclear how they would manage that.

 

Sea lamprey control program receives OK to rehire federal workers after initial scare

https://www.michiganpublic.org/environment-climate-change/2025-03-26/sea-lamprey-control-program-receives-ok-to-rehire-federal-workers-after-initial-scare

 

Additional Great lake info here:

https://us13.campaign-archive.com/?e=5588c18d67&u=5b672d7c62922dbb20bc7549e&id=c117a72ea1

 

Check out this link to learn more about this annual week long event in DC

https://dceff.org/

 

Thanks,

Captain Pete

[Gill-T]

I think I can speak for everyone within the LOU community and say thank you Pete for representing all of our interests on this important international matter. 

[LongLine]

Thanx Pete.  Glad the offer was made to those guys to be rehired.  We're keeping fingers crossed that all works out well. 

[HB2]

  On 3/27/2025 at 5:22 PM, dreamsteelie said:

 

 

It would appear that the overall program will see 25% less stream treatments Great Lake wide in 2025. Primarily due to the lack of experienced employees to administer the treatments.  

Expand  

The answer to this problem is so blatantly obvious  , it's a bit ridiculous that it's really even a problem . 

Train currently employed DEC techs to do this so we don't have to worry about Canada , tariffs , etc . That way the money spent stays in this state and country . We don't pay Canadians for work that employees already in the payroll should be able to do . 

 

But the way things seem to work , I suppose this might be to much to ask. But a man can dream . 

[GAMBLER]

  On 3/27/2025 at 9:01 PM, HB2 said:

The answer to this problem is so blatantly obvious  , it's a bit ridiculous that it's really even a problem . 

Train currently employed DEC techs to do this so we don't have to worry about Canada , tariffs , etc . That way the money spent stays in this state and country . We don't pay Canadians for work that employees already in the payroll should be able to do . 

 

But the way things seem to work , I suppose this might be to much to ask. But a man can dream . 

Expand  

The DEC is working at minimum levels also.  Who's going to do their jobs when they are out doing lampricide treatments?  I would gladly volunteer to help.  

[HB2]

I guess it's a matter of priorities. And how you allocate your manpower . 

 

Seems this Lamprey thing is pretty important . So a team of a few guys to do it shouldn't be a problem . It took a few days to do Sandy when I saw it a few years back . In a months time , all the streams that need it should be done . 

 

Government efficiently can no one longer  be an oxymoron.

 

 

 

 

[GAMBLER]

  On 3/28/2025 at 4:39 PM, HB2 said:

I guess it's a matter of priorities. And how you allocate your manpower . 

 

Seems this Lamprey thing is pretty important . So a team of a few guys to do it shouldn't be a problem . It took a few days to do Sandy when I saw it a few years back . In a months time , all the streams that need it should be done . 

 

Government efficiently can no one longer  be an oxymoron.

 

 

 

 

Expand  

Hatchery staff can't just leave their normal duties and go do lampricide treatments. The state is running things at bare bones minimum.  They can't just pull employees out of thin air and put them on lampricide duty.  I heard the stocking truck only sent one person to deliver the fish at the Sandy pens the other day.  It used to be two.  Thank god for the volunteers that were there.  Great job guys! 

[HB2]

Sorry Brian , I ain't buying it 

 

We need people in leadership positions that are problem solvers .

This is a problem , so fix it . The state has more employees per resident than any state in the country.  Figure it out . It doesn't have to be hatchery people . Be creative . Adapt , overcome .