Etiquette on the water?

[slapshot]

I'm looking for other thoughts on a situation I ran into this weekend while fishing out of Olcott. We were trolling in a W/ NW direction, when another boat came up from behind us sort of on the same line and moving faster than we were. They went a head of us, cutting us off, and came into our way point. They came pretty close to us and proceeded to call us names and cutting us off, and told us to turn off. I grant it their boat was bigger, we fish out of an 18" LUND. I don't know if he thought he had a bigger boat and the right of way, but he was wrong!! We let it go and continued on our way, although I have a short fuse and my father in the boat. If it were just my buddy and myself, there might have been a problem. I have no tolerance for meat heads like those guys, when you have such a big area to fish. In your opinion, were we right to continue our way point? Thanks.

Tony (Slapshot)

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(Your Name) : Fishing Report

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TRIP OVERVIEW

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Date(s): (fishing date here)

Time on Water: (8:00 AM – 4:00 PM)

Temp/Weather: (85°F and sunny, overcast, rain, snow)

Wind Speed/Direction: (NW at 8 MPH)

Waves: (1-2 Footers, Calm)

Surface Temp: (72°F)

Location: (fishing location)

LAT/LONG: (GPS Cords)

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FISHING RESULTS

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Total Hits: (0, 5 10, etc.)

Total Boated: (0, 5, 10, etc.)

Species Breakdown: (3 Kings, 2 Bows, 1 Brown, 5 Lake Trout)

Hot Lure: (NK28, White Spindoctor with Green A-TOM-MIC Fly)

Trolling Speed: (2.1 mph)

Down Speed: (1.8 mph)

Boat Depth: (200 ft)

Lure Depth: (80 ft)

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SUMMARY & FURTHER DETAILS

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(add pictures and any other details not captured above here)

[rocky]

I have had some of the same things happen to me. I fish out of a 19 foot spectrum and on many occasions i have bigger boats cut me off. I usually look the other way and try to just circle around to get back on track, if you get mad every time you will wind up fighting more than fishing. It seems funny how small a lake can get. I only have been extremely upset twice and that was because i had a couple of boats cross directly behind my boat and catch my dipsy with their riggers. Fun chase that was to get everything back not mentioning costing me some wire. Typically though i do not have many problems as i try to fish outside the packs of boats. I do not believe most people out there cut anyone off on purpose, we are all out there to have a good time and on occasions things happen. Just part of fishing i guess.

[chinook35]

I find that 1# lead balls are a good choice in these situations, if it's dark so much the better. They can't tell where it came from.

[blazingrill]

Tony

I agree, it seems that sometimes the larger boats appear as though they can go and do anything that they please !! You are right when you say that they are wrong, the problem is that they don't care ! In the spring we witnessed a larger charter boat( name will remain unspoken) cruise right over the top of a smaller boats planners and lines in which made a serious mess for the elderly man who was out enjoying the morning. If it were an accident I can see it but this guy made no attempt to move or even offer up an apology. I was hoping that the mess would end up in his prop and I would have laughed my *%$#*&$ off if the drag was loosened!! My suggestion would be to carry extra down rigger balls with you for situations like this. Good luck fishing and I hope you don't run ito these problems often !

[LongLine]

When a boat is being overtaken (passed) by another boat, the boat being overtaken has the right of way and must continue on a straight course. ... So much for navigation law.... Next time take a series of photos, post them & consider emailing them to the CG in Cleveland. (CGHq)

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[TOP SECRET]

I have to disagree with some of the posts above... you were both at fault. 99% of the time I don't believe anyone cuts another person off on purpose. I think they each wait too long to turn hoping the other person will turn. A lot of situations would be avoided if each captain stopped worrying about who had the right of way and just did the best he could to turn to avoid the situation as early as possible.

Now, do as I say, not as I do. I was out Friday last week and was the only boat out of Sodus for as far as I could see. I watched a sailboat leave port and beeline it to me in 200fow. I sat there in shock and didn't turn until it was almost too late, at which point he did a 180 degree turn so he could ride next to me. I had heard someone arguing with someone on the radio about how he was interfering with the channel they were using for a race earlier. I'm guessing he thought the other guy was me and came out to give me a hard time. Luckily he didn't have a gun

But the only time I can understand one boat not turning, would be in rough weather when riding with the waves. Sometimes I think the bigger boats don't realize how difficult 2-3' waves can be for someone in a boat less than 20ft long.

Nick

[skipper19]

post the pics on here so we can all see the "meatheads" who might also be on here then upon recognition...well you'll all know how to deal with them in your own way. ME....AVOIDANCE....I loathe entirely, stupid people and believe they should fish from rubber boats near many sharp objects

[Splitshot115]

I have to disagree with some of the posts above... you were both at fault. 99% of the time I don't believe anyone cuts another person off on purpose. I think they each wait too long to turn hoping the other person will turn. A lot of situations would be avoided if each captain stopped worrying about who had the right of way and just did the best he could to turn to avoid the situation as early as possible.

Nick

Nick,

You haven't been on the south end of Cayuga when the College Blow Boats are out, you can't get far enough away from them.

Splitshot115

[TOP SECRET]

haha well that's true, if there is nowhere to turn, then you can't be expected to turn My first time on cayuga was in an old rowboat... it's amazing how fast storms can come up on that lake. It was a scary row back to shore and boy were my arms tired... not to mention pulling the boat the mile down the shore I had drifted!

Nick

[Ronnie D]

Well,

With LOU around, the lake is indeed a small place. I happened to be aboard the other boat in question as an observer. I had no part in navigation or what was shouted. Your boat was awful full and busy with the 3 or 4 guys in there and all that equipment on those bench seats with little space to move, it must be fun fighting a fish in there.

For clarification we were at an angle nearly perpendicular to you only after navigating to accomidate yet another boat in the same immediate area. They too had way points they were attempting to follow. They appeared to be traveling faster than you its true but some of it was the angle. They were past you safily, the danger was not actual collision but line tangle.

Note, the boat I was on had to change course from the original encounter and thus they ended up near you. Only when your boat was actually OVER our lines with what appeared to be intent to tangle our lines, when all you had to do was turn slightly to your port side as the boat did turn slightly also to accomidate you, was there anything actually said. The statement that followed did instruct you to turn with one colorful metaphour used to discribe your demanor based on your current action. There was not more than one sentence shouted.

Heres the reality, a smaller boat can turn with much less trouble and not for nothing but fish strikes on my boat are OFTEN triggered by turning slightly to one side or the other.

So as for taking sides, you were both in the wrong. Those rules are important to follow but when in an actual situation where there are multiple boats together, I feel that logic should rule. Yes, all three boat navigators should have seen the situation forming and all of them should have made some new course of action to avoid it. Once everything happened and you could see you were BLATENTLY in line to tangle gear and continued with INTENT to actually do it, you could have backed off for the sake of your own lines and nothing would have been said.

In conclusion, get over it. Make sure you see and tell the whole story with accurate details. I own and drive a small boat. I dont overload it and I communicate on the radio to discuss intent or fish away from others when I want to feel like I am the only one on the water.

[Reel Nauti]

Hey guys I would like to shed some light on navigation etiquette. I have been around boats all my life.....power & sail. Recently, after 25 years, just took again the 8 hour NYS Boater Course. Which I will share, what was discussed from the "text book" side of the course. I will try to summarize, and some instances these may not reflect my own opinions. In a nut shell, sail has the right of way over power in almost all circumstance. Power boats are in 100% control of their course and speed. Sail boats are not, they need wind. My comment and opinion on this, If an operator of a sail boat has the right of way over a power, the power craft should adjust course and speed to avoid a situation. But on the other hand, if the power craft has DR's out and say maybe some planer boards, or even say anchor'd, the sail craft should be respectful and give the power craft some breathing room. I think some sail operators navigate the rule to a Tee and can at at times be less then respectful. Now the subject of a power craft overtaking another power craft. The boat being overtaking has the right of way and the boat doing the overtaking needs to overtake by adjusting speed and course in my opinion in a respectful manner. Does this happen? Size of boats doesn't play into it all, except for when navigating on say the St. Lawrence River, when the giant lakers and ocean vessels have the right of way, due to their lack of ability to change speed and course. Which by the way, we are supposed stay clear of them by 150 feet. When power craft is doing the overtaking, a respectful operator, should consider his wake, and passsing distnace to the overtaking vessel....Does this happen?....hmm......My opinion on all of this, is that if an operator is a repectful operator, no feathers will get ruffled and will give other boats room to pass at a comfortable speed and distance. We had a situation last year that really left me scratching my head.....We were in a 19' starcraft, trolling at say what maybe tops 3mph, on the St. Lawrence near Cape Vincent, not in the bouyed main channel, with DR's, when from the distance a very large leasure, pleasure power was "overtaking us". This boat was under almost full power and its course did not change, heading right at our stern from behind. This had to be a 50 to 60 footer, 2 story with full kitchen, bedrooms. etc.......you get the idea.........he never changed course or speed until within about 150 feet or our boat......now let me also add that this area of the river is maybe a few miles wide, and we were in 15 to 20 FOW, and there was not another boat in sight. So I asked myself, what the hell was this guy thinking, he could given us a pass at least a 1/2 mile on either side of us.....but no he came right on top of us, with a big wake. Everyone on his boat had beverages in hand and were hotting and hollering........When they passed, I showed them that they were number 1 in my book.......anyway that's my opinions and hope this helps......

Thanks guys...

Scott

[TOP SECRET]

Heres the reality, a smaller boat can turn with much less trouble and not for nothing but fish strikes on my boat are OFTEN triggered by turning slightly to one side or the other.

Xing, I can never understand the "a smaller boat" can turn easier thing. I had a 20' boat and now a 26' boat and I'll swear up and down that that statement is just wrong. I find it much easier to turn in my larger boat now than I did in my smaller boat. If it is rough, there is just no contest, bigger boat is easier hands down.

Sorry for the off topic... there are always two sides to the story and this kinda proves that in most cases each side thinks they were right and it could have all been avoided if each side just did their best to change course without worrying about who was right or wrong.

Nick

[GAMBLER]

I don't know why this happens all the time. If someone is coming in on you, turn away. Some people know the rules of the road and some don't. There are some situations where both sides need to give a little to avoid crowding or tangles no matter what the rules of the road state. The words "coming in to our weigh point" makes me laugh. Avoid crowds like I do if you don't like being crowded out.

[Gill-T]

Nobody has a "right" to their waypoints, and nobody can possibly know the other guys' waypoints so for god's sake LEAVE waypoints out of the equation and look up to see what is going on around you!!!! Common sense SHOULD prevail. If everyone is trolling in a east-west direction in crowded conditions, and you want to troll in a north-south direction, then use your riggers only.......don't act all suprised and pissed off your 600' copper got caught in someone's dipsy. The act described above should never had happened among two fishing vessels. Blow-boats well that is a different story.

[slapshot]

Guys I appreciate the info. and clarification. By no means do I want to start trouble, with anyone. I'm trying to get an idea for what could have been done to correct the issue that happened. I really value the opinions offer on this board about fishing information and issues that arise. I just think that if I were getting close to another boat/ fisherman I would change my heading and re-route. As mentioned above, I would not want to cross lines and create a mess. The lake is a big area. If we were in the wrong, I will apologize. I agree we both should have made some consessions so that we both were happy. I'm not upset, I don't want to step on any toes. Once again thanks and hope to hear from you guys on the water.

Tony (Slapshot)

[Ronnie D]

I just wanted to jump in and make mention since the boat I was in was a nice bunch of guys and yeah we all kinda jumbled together over what was obviosuly a productive piece of water. Gambler, I have to agree with the waypoint thing as well.

Like I said, both contributed but I did feel a little awkard when it was all going down. I wish the yelling part didnt take place but it did serve to difuse the immediate problem at hand.

Bob, My perspective is that a small boat will only have like 4 or so lines running more than likely vs 8 or so of a boat with a bigger profile on the water. I can turn my 19 futter on a dime compared to the 24.5 I fish in / drive from time to time, mostly because of the types of lines and quantity of lines in the water. The water conditions that day were flat as a pancacke mostly, the 1 foot chop was fairly accurate. I guess I have to agree that in a heavier chop a direction change could be more difficult.

By the way, Nice catch for the day Slapshot. Still seems you came away with a good bunch of fish. Looks like you had their number with the slower speed.

[LongLine]

You can’t overtake a boat then turn directly in front of him. Sorry…that’s the law. However to avoid a collision, nav laws can be put aside. Avoidance is the only way to go.

However if the boat doing the overtaking is indeed that close, then a friendly shout, (to the boat being overtaken, as he is being overtaken) explaining that another boat/meathead is forcing him to take that course, probably would have made this a very peaceful situation.

Waypoints only mark where you saw some action. They are not lane markers. The waypoint will still be there no matter which direction you approach it from.

How many guys are on a boat is irrelevant. (If you think he’s overloaded then that’s even more reason to keep your eye on him and stay away.) IMO, if you're that close to see his tackle boxes, you're way to close.

As far as a small boat being more maneuverable than a big one, what a bunch of cr@p! (Guess you’ve never seen those big ones back into their slips.) Small boats sit higher in the water and the slightest wind/waves will move them around. Maneuverability all depends upon the skills of the skipper.

There are always two sides to every story so like I said, a few photos would’ve told the whole story. (by both parties)

Luckily there wasn’t a collision or lost gear.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[slapshot]

I appreciate everyones input on this situation. There are a great group of guys on this site/ LOU Members, and I repect your opinions, since you spend more time on the water then I do. However, we did not have a steller day of fishing on Saturday, it was just nice to be out there. Nothing serious happened, so my motto is, NO BLOOD, NO FOUL!! Thanks.

Tony (Slapshot)

[walleyemagic]

I fish around alot of boats also and when i see another boat heading my direction, I try to intentionally point my bow in a noticeable direction and hope the other notices and changes there cource accordingly.

If they do not I get on radio and see if they want port or starboard side . if no reply i have a 24 ft boat not a big boat but good size, i will turn and try to avoid a tangle.

I think if people try to use a little common sence instead of trying to hold course, things would be more manageable.

if you see a N/S or E/W pattern try to join in same pattern, in stead of opposite,

My pet peave is people fishing in a marked narrow channel, with small 14 ft boats with inlines and they look at you as if you are wrong when you are staying course in the channel. common sence can go a long ways . at least for the most of us, not counting the weekend blow boater is showing off for his 30 year younger girl friend hmmmm

[slapshot]

One more thing I want to clear up. Our boat is 18" 6" and can hold up to 4 people, so we use a max of 3 people and the necessary equipment. We have plenty of room to fight a fish and be comfortable, since we are well organized.

When your fishing you can't think for the other fishermen out there, you can only try to make the best possible decision and try not to cause any problems. So, by no means did we have to INTENTIONALLY tangle anyones lines, because I would't want someone to do that to us. It was a mistake!!

Tony (Slapshot)

[motoman]

paint ball gun !!! give em a pink poke-adoted boat

[chinook35]

The gentleman that took the boater safety course should know that there is NO right of way. There is a "stand on boat" that is required to maintain the course they are on if safe. That would be the boat being overtaken. The "give way" boat must alter course to safely pass the stand on boat, either in a crossing or overtaking situation. The give way boat in this instance is the overtaking boat which must alter course and speed to safely pass to port or starboard. This right of way idea is where the trouble starts. All boats must do everything in their power to avoid collisions(and confrontations).

[roopycat]

Hard to imagine 3 guys in an 18 inch Lund, that is tight quaters. Must have been hard to even see them. Sorry Slapshot, just trying to be funny.

[Squid]

I have been on both sides of this issues as I worked on large charter boats for years and now own my own small boat and I think there are a few things everyone should keep in mind when out on the lake.

In the past charter boats always had mates but it is now not as common a practice and the charters are often on auto pilot. If they are setting lines or working a fish they may come up on you with out realizing it.

The charter captains are out there trying to earn money and provide a fun experience for their clients, they are not out there looking for problems or to create a fight.

In choppy waters it is often difficult for a smaller boat to manuever or hold a course. Sometimes these smallers boats have to work a NE or SW course due to wave condtions when the larger boats are trolling E and W or N and S.

Like in stock car racing the person who gets in the "wreck" is not the one at fault. You have to be aware of what the other boats are doing not just the one you feel is coming at you. We have all been there where we have to manuever around one boat for some reason and it puts in another boats course.

Waypoints are not posted property. If you can't get to your waypoint because another boat is in the way then make a plan, use a turn to put you on it after the area has cleared or set yourself up for a run across it.

Try to be respectful of everyone else. We are all out there for the same reason. To Have Fun!

[Reel Nauti]

Chinook35, Your are absoulteyl correct, my usage of terminolgy, "Right of way" was only to convey who should be doing what......

Thanks for clarifying...