what # leader for flies.

[cdgn troller]

I was wondering who reties their flies with lighter fluoro? I have retied many of my flies, mainly to take a bead or 2 out and make them shorter, I really have not used a fly that I have not altered in some way, or one with the 50# fluoro. Does the weight of the line make a difference?

Also I have been losing alot of fish on the spindoctor/fly combo, they all have a single treble hook, it feels like its pulling out. Any suggestions or has somebody had this issue and figured it out.

[ray koziatek]

the heavier leader supplied is supposed to give more whip to the fly but probly aslo gives a little more strength against a tooth or two.before the second hook (stinger)days my hookup ratio was still very good most stinger hooks now do have the greater hook ups but i feel that is due that many salmon spank it from the side and the front hook does most of the hooking. removing beads might be your biggest problem as the fly tail is beyond the hook instead of the other way. also the bead / fly color is very important as a attracter so when you start removing or changing you might get a better setup but people like attomic ,siggs,and big weenie have a lot of guys testing colors and setups before we ever see the "newest pattern" other than maybe adding a red bead ahead of the other beads id leave well enuf alone...its been figured out long ago and thats why your paying 5.00 each (plus)for a good fly.also everytime you put a flasher fly out lay in water at surface and be shure everything lines up before setting out your rig.and dont overtighten drag enjoy the fight with smooth rod action and just enuf drag to move the fish in ,sharp hooks and a snug release should help your landing ratio. if you hook up and get a good rip (run) and loose the fish with consistancy as your bringing in the problem (sorry to say)is a overagggressive fisherman on the other end...

[cdgn troller]

Ray, i also trim the fly when i take out a bead or two, so the hook is in the right place, my preference is a little smaller fly. I should of stated that I fish the fingerlakes mostly. But do you think that a lighter line would produce more fish?

[ray koziatek]

NO! i fish seneca all the time with factory flys 20 to 40 fish days (lakers) are the norm till the lake warms some do you use dypsys?

[Justin]

ray we just started using the spin dr /fly setup on the dipsy due to your advice back in april(we talked at the launch in watkins) we have hit afew but not any numbers like you get.We are running 1.8 to 2.5 on the gps. Another thing is we have a lot of shake offs too. Any idea on what we are doing wrong.Maybe we could set up a learning trip some time. My buddy and i would be more than happy to share cost with you.Seems like you have it all figured out

[ray koziatek]

justin once the massive bait wads show up the bite can really get slower on the south end.many people make the mistake of fishing the bait and your competing against several tons of fresh smelling bait.ive scuba dove into balls of bait before and even at my slow speeds i could move into a ball of bait and almost touch them,so any healthy fish is pretty well topped off ..move outside of (north) these bait balls. For those of you who have never seen the seneca bait as it stackes to spawn it is not unuasual to see "clouds" of bait 75 to 150 deep over 200 fow and up to 1/4 mile long. Also J this time of year most of the lakers are migrating north tho they are basicly everywhere all the time. And the bite seems to go from a all day bite to a few hour "window" as summer and temps increase.. And they start looking for that 100ft plus depths to hang out. 80- 126ft is the normal summer depth to target ..next jan. through may you need to get the boat ready for some cold temp fishing then ill show you some fish numbers that will change your thinking and learning curve ...P.S keep that dypsy release soooooo loose it almost trips on it own and say goodby to dypsy shakeoffs...GUARENTEED!!!

[chowder]

I got a couple thoughts on this dropped fish thing; First, you guys should go fishing with Ray(just be careful when he asks you to bend over the transom to hook the kicker to the outdrive, especially if he has already stripped down!) 2cd, consider using the tournament style rigging for your flies, in this setup there is a treble and a single. 3rd, I think that running the mag dypsies and using the large style Scotty releases make a huge difference in hookups- remember you aren't there to set the hook so there needs to be some pretty good resistance to drive that baby home! 4th and related to number 3 , after the hook set you have to have the drag set so the fish doesn't have enough leverage to rip the hook out. You should have the drags set loose enough so that if you turn or speed up from a change in wind, etc the drags run a little. I know Ray already mentioned this one but I thought I would say it again because it's so important, especially if you use wire or super braid cause there is no stretch. Right now I am getting most of my fish in shallower water and high w/ spoons on the cheaters, there is a ton of available food right now, if you can mark fish w/out bait I would work them, the fish associated w/ bait have not been striking much for me lately.

[Justin]

Ray thanks for the advice. what line are you running from the dipsy to the spinny and NO snubbers right. We took ours off after to shakeoffs. As tyo the cold water fishing that is good with me I finally know some that will go with me and not think we a re crazy. No colder than deer hunting. Should be warmer with the new slyvan.Going sat. am so i will report our results.

[ray koziatek]

20 lb to the spinny and i ALWAYS RUN A SNUBBER .it ant the snubber its the dypsy trip i also run wire or powerpro to the dypsy i feel the mono dypsy setup gives the fish a few more shakes than i want (streach) tho some run it with good results ... also running powerpro or wire i feel the dypsy get more action due to surging rods in a nice chop ..other than a recent 4 hr day on erie i can still claim i ant never been skunked on the fingerlakes or greatlakes in 7 years but ive come close a few times.....

[Justin]

my mistake on the snubber i will have to get a couple more. we run 20# had one breakoff due to dipsy rookies mistake trip was to tight not sure how big the fish was but it hit the fly hard. came up with the dipsy and that was it.

[Billy V]

You'll definitely want to stay with heavier (50Lb) line on your flies. The stiffer line imparts the proper action to the fly from the flasher and as Ray said, its just tougher for fish to break off. And as was mentioned above, you'll have a lot higher landing percentage using a tandem tied fly. We kept a detailed record last year and over 50% of our fish that came on flies had the extra stinger hook buried in them somewhere. In lots of cases the stinger was the only hook in the fish! I resisted adding the extra hook for several years because it seemed like just more work to me to tie them up. But when I finally started listening to what guys were saying about it I finally gave them a try. Now you won't find anything other than a tandem tied fly on my boat, and they're really no big deal to tie.

Prior to being on Lake Ontario we used to fish Cayuga all the time (I live 5 minutes from the lake). We used to run the standard size flies behind an 8" Spinny and whacked em all the time on that set up. Now that we're back on Cayuga again for the time being, we're still running them and the fish still seem to like them. I've also run the Coho sized flies behind 6" flashers on Cayuga and frankly we did better on the standard sizes.

In my opinion, wire line Diver set-ups don't need a snubber if you run the right line between the flasher and the diver, especially on the Finger Lakes with the smaller fish we have here. If you're running 30# regular mono you shouldn't have any problems. Mono will give you the stretch that you need. Be careful running straight Fluorocarbon as a leader with no snubber though. It has no stretch and if you run too light of line you'll risk breaking gear off. Since we run fluoro leaders we do like running snubbers when fishing for Kings on Lake Ontario. I think it helps lessen the chance of a big fish pulling a hook out at the back of the boat because it's really the only shock absorber we have at that point. Imagine a 30lb King at the back of the boat. You have the diver all the way to the rod tip. The rod is completely loaded up and has no room to give at all as you try to net the fish. Then the King pulls a flip-flop on you and tries to run just as you're netting it. If you run a Fluorocarbon leader like I do, you better have a snubber or that fish is gone. But there are lots of guys who run their divers with no snubbers and mono and they seem to do OK too. We have a pretty high landing percentage on Kings with our set-up so I'm gonna stick with what works for us.

[FLXTroutman]

http://www.fishdoctorcharters.com/templ ... ctor=video

check these out, especially how to tie a tournament tie,

[mtboxess]

I have been tying my own setup for a couple of years now and I can definitely state that adding the stinger hook in front of the beads has increased my landing fish dramatically both on Finger Lakes and Lake Ontario. I cannot tell you how many salmon I have boated where the stinger has been firmly imbedded while the treble has not been. I tie my flies with 50# Seagar and it has worked great. Like others have said drag tension is very important. On s a side note just bought one of the new reels with the syncro-drag setup and it's the cat's-a#$^@!!!!

Good luck.

Dion

[711skwerlz]

Those are great vids especially for us new guys.

[cdgn troller]

Ray and Billy, that is great info. This is my first year using flies and have good success, but you always want to be better! I also have 2 new wire dipsey rods but haven't used them. I'm afraid that my plastic pivoting cannon rod holders will break if a big fish hits! which leads into my next dilema, which rod holder setup to install! I need to get this house bought so I can start hiding money from the wife!

Thinking back on the fish that I lost, they were all really good fish, and I think Ray hit it right on the head, over excited fisherman! Does anybody run the smaller peanut flies? I've had really good luck but again, one treble and a few shake offs. thanks again guys!

[chowder]

The standard size flies have worked much better for me than the coho/ peanut size on Cayuga. Don't put a dipsy rod in a plastic holder, you will need something more rugged, probably be best to consider a track system.

[Billy V]

Like I said in my earlier post, we used to run the coho (peanut) sized flies on Cayuga and we have better success with the regular sized ones. Definitely look into a track system if you can afford it. You'll lose a diver set-up in those plastic holders. I have a Traxstech system that I love, but there are lots of other choices too. Cannon's new holders are amazing, Cisco's are great, Big Jon's and Bert's are good too. If you can't slap down the coin for a full track system like one of those while you're saving for the house, you can easily get away with using Tite-Lok holders. They're fairly inexpensive and they'll hold up to a diver rod really well. I ran them on my old boat for years and they worked great for us. For about $32 you can't beat 'em. http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... hasJS=true