Copper

[Yankee Troller]

Go talk with Ernie from Fish Doctor Charters. This guy is a copper whiz!

I just bought a Penn 345 with 600' of copper off him and 2 rolls of 600'. I plan on switching my full cores out to 200' sections of copper. You can achieve the same depth with 100' less line in the water. I plan on making me a 100, 2-200's, 300, 400 foot copper. I can stager these off the boards to cover a great deal of the water column.

[Legacy]

could someone sell me on the idea of copper?

how many of you guys are running it?

whats the + and -?

[Yankee Troller]

Hey Rob, I dont know if Im going to sell you but I will let you in on why Im running it. For one I fell in love with lead core last year. It was 2 more rods in a stealth mode running in the strike zone. For spring and fall it was a great producer. A full core is 300'. I can achieve the same depth with 200' of copper. So for customers and tournaments that is 100' less we have to reel in. As for the 600' copper which has become popular in the Eastern Basin you can achieve depths of up to 130' with a spoon. Now Ernie marked the copper every 50'. Say your going along and you mark a fish at 90'. That would equate to about 400' of copper. You can run to the back of the boat and adjust your copper to 400'. If that King doesnt take your offering from the riggers and Dipseys this rig will come in all by itself a long time after everything else and possibly catch you a fish you would have passed up. This is critical during busy days when there are a lot of balls and dipseys running through the water.

I am also going to make some diferent sections to pull behind boards. I would like to, and this depends on capitol to buy the reels, add a 100 foot sections for cohos and bows, im replacing my core with 2 - 200' sections, a 300' section, and a 400' section. If I run these off boards I can cover, stealthy, the water column from 20' to 100'. Ernie says at 2.7 SOG you can achieve 22' down per 100' of copper out pulling a spoon.

So there ya go!

[ray koziatek]

COPPER , well the concept is about 100 yrs old just a little different as now you use a pole that gives the fish more leverage ,does it work ,yup kinda a stelth presentation 400 ft plus back nice little hum catches the fishys latteral line then the spoon,bait goes by and ya reel in your fish and 400 ft of water draging copper ,goodline to have out unless you find a dime size pod of steelies or coho buy the time you get turned around tha bites off..to be honest i dont even run dypsys unless im in a search mode or everyones shy .nothing worse than having to clear longlines 3or 4 times a hour so ya dont wrap a rigger release around it ..ya get up set your beer on the ledge turn around it falls in the boat ya grab it set it on the ledge and by the time your longline is reeled in the beers flat and your rigger rod is nearly spooled .man i need a big fish on this wind is killing me i can hadle 40 deg but not 30mph winds .. stay with dypsys when ya need the stelth and use the riggers 95 % of the time your beer will stay fresher and youll enjoy fishing better ,,, the Opinion of a polish plummer RAY K.

[Legacy]

600' of copper? i can see that rod being ignored by guests

obviously copper "could" replace the need for leadcore in the top 50' (due to less is more). and i guess if your running more then 6-8 lines it would be nice to add to the spread (copper off the boards on the outside).......

i love the leadcore, so whats the negatives?

[FISHINMAN]

RM, his name is Ernie Lantiegne and he runs Fish Doctors Charters. You can contact him at www.fishdoctorcharters.com.

He is very good at getting back to you answering questions.

[A-TOM-MIK]

A-TOM-MIK also now sells copper

100 to 600 ft sections

bulk spools of 2000 ft marked every 100ft as well

.037 45#

We purchase from the same mill as Ernie, same exact copper.

I couldn't agree more Ernie is one of the copper guru's, Ernie also sells Howie Copper which is a bit different, same size/lb but different lay. Being a novice with only 1 season under my belt running copper I have fished both and do not notice any difference in the world.

Copper has pretty much taken over lead lines in Oswego from the guys that I know, still used but not favored over coppers effectiveness to pull the deep fish (over 60 to 120 ft down), the stuff rules, not the easiest way nor the cheapest way to take Kings and not the most preferred over other methods like mainline/spoon combination, but come tourney time we have the stuff in the water pretty much 100% of the time, it will produce for you that well.

Some of the reasons we added copper to our line-up for 2007 was due to the many requests from our normal patrons as well as our staffers; and also the lack of availability and or ease of acquiring it at any of the many shops in our Eastern Basin and in town here in Oswego, we just added copper to 5 shops in the last 2 weeks and have already had to restock 3 of them. The word is out that copper pulls fish when things have slowed and also in general over many other applications.

Try it, it'll work for you.

Tom

[TONYD]

Tom went on your web site, do you have a certain area for the copper, could not find.

[Legacy]

http://www.atommiktrollingflies.com/037_Copper.htm

[Santana]

Maybe a stupid question but I'm kinda new. What do you guys use for backing and do you use backing with the copper? You have caught my interest in this. Just started trolling last year and had a great time last fall with the kings. My set up now consists mainly of mono on the riggers and a few fireline dipsey rigs. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Josh

[seasquirrel]

Jeff, A.K.A. missem, sold me on the copper. It Was my hottest setup last year. I also am setting up various lengths of copper of my otter boards like Yankee troller. I use g-fly 40 pound.

[A-TOM-MIK]

Any of many backings will work, one popular option is a 50# moss green Power Pro / braid. I know guys who use 25 lb test mono's also, we have used other braids from 20 to 65 as well as mono's, the braids seem to last longer, its a pretty easy application. 200 to 300 yds of backing gives me piece of mind after the expenditure of the copper and rod/reel set-up and everything involved.

Tom

[Yankee Troller]

Tommy,

R u guys using short or long sticks with this stuff? I am ordering the new Daiwa 7' core rods to replace 10' diver rods I was using.

[Time Out]

Yankee,

Did you find out if the 57's were big enough for the copper and the backing. Was thinking the same thing. would suck to buy them and only get 100 yds of backer on it. Tom, what reel do you run.

Jeff

[Yankee Troller]

Hey bro! AS much as I would like to stay with Daiwa I think Im gonna have to invest in Penns. Daiwas might fit up to 300' of copper with backing and leader.

[A-TOM-MIK]

We use many different combo's, one favorite purchase of mine was a Telora/Tekota I purchased off Tim Dawidiuk, 800 Tekota and 8'6" Telora leadcore rod. Seems a bit stiff in the butt compared to what I have always been use to but works great.

Also have experience with several 9 ft med weight custom blanks (maybe Loomis or St Croix not sure, for a 350 and 400 section, these are nice due to the rather elongated arch as to be able to run out say just 300 or so with the 400' section, the bend in the rod doesn't leave any abrupt pivot point, just a nice fluid arch. Nice for an extra rod ran off a port/starboard diver rod holder (set at about 15 degrees out to the side) this over the top of another wire diver.

We have also used 9' Ugly sticks for board rods, some with twillys and some without, you do not need them. Many rods will work, have heard all good things from Ernie's creations as well.

Just get something with some backbone below the ferrule, and something with some flex in the tip section, once you have a full season under your belt you get to learn pretty fast what works best, they produce so well.

A great tip while fighting fish is to leave the rod right in a rear rod holder and crank em in, until your about 60 to 80 ft behind the boat, saves on the fore-arms, lol, they will beat you up

Penn's 345 GTI is all I know of that will hold the 5 and 600 sections of .037, we run as much as 400' with 500' of 30# Fireline backing on the Tekota 800's, 300 is perfect with 350 yds of 50 PP. There are a few Oswego guys who have dialed this stuff right in like team Screamer, they actually mark every 100 ft with shrink tubing for exact depths. I am not sure what a 57 Diawa will hold, I know a 47 will hold a 150' section with 300' of 20 lb test mono. We have been spooled on that combo as well, lol, Ernie was laughing at me one day last spring as he watched me spooling it up, he laughed and said where ya going with that? He was right, but we have landed many with it, even used it as a SWR and had it fire for us.

I could be wrong but I only know of the Penn for the 5 and 600 sections, a Tekota 800 for up to 400', this for our .037

Tom

[ilv2bfishing2]

THIS IS A PIC OF MY OKUMA 55L 450' OF 30#PP AND 600' OF G-FLY COPPER. 55L HOLDS 440' 40#. TALKED WITH CAPT ERNIE AT CABELA'S A FEW WEEKS AGO HE TOLD ME THAT THE G-FLY COPPER WAS THE LIGHTER OF THE 45# COPPERS. IDON'T KNOW IF THE THICKER COPPER WOULD FIT.ON AN OKUMA. PENN SAYS 375' OF 50# ON A 345 GTI. HOPE THIS HELPS. TOM ANY IDEA ABOUT THE SINK RATE ON G FLY COPPER?

LARRY

[A-TOM-MIK]

From what little I know about G Fly copper some of their product that I have seen that they call 45# actually measures .028 or .029 ?", this according to the G-Fly label, about the same as most others 30# copper. My guess would be it would compare to 27 lb leadcore, 4 to 5 ft or so for every 10 yds. I would figure 12 to 15 ft for every 100 ft of length.

In the illustration attached where I have G Fly copper marked 30# it was actually what they call 45#

Click to make larger

[emtystringer]

I 'm thinking of getting a copper set up of 600'. my question is can i run this off boards and only let out 200' and not damage the wire or do i need a set up especially for that presentation and what kind of release do you use ?

[A-TOM-MIK]

Never personally witnessed that application but have heard some have used rubber bands without problem, would strongly recommend not using any type release on the copper itself, even a rubber band seems like it would stress the copper but I have heard it does work? Maybe that is why I sold so much copper last season, lol. I will have to try that this season to get some first hand knowledge.

I have witnessed a 300' section with a yard of 65# PP knotted in every 100 ft, this leaving an attachment point for your release off your big board every 100 ft or an area to attach your small board. Seems to me all these connection points would certainly leave room for error.

Another issue may be the weight of the copper from rod tip to release or to your small board, would have to guess you would need to shorten up your stretch to the board utilizing any of these methods, a sagging length of copper would become cumbersome I would think.

However like I said I do know a few who do this with rubberbands off a release, one being a good customer (hence) from last season, lol Jimmy Samia, not sure if he is in here or not to chyme in?

[A-TOM-MIK]

I'll be there for both Pro/Ams but they miss your dates. I would be happy to see to it that Kevin Jerge in Wilson Marina or Slippery Sinker have some copper for your purchase though, or any other shop you may frequent as well, just let me know where you want me to get it. I would much rather work it this way anyhow. As hard as it is I try not to be a walking tackle shop upon my presence to different towns during events and such out of respect for the many shops that stock many dollars worth of our goods.

On another note if you know exactly what you want I will be sure to have the shop you choose also hold what you need in case they may sell out. drop me an E Mail [email protected]

Tom

[capt ace]

I'm here Tommy, back from So. Africa.

We ran 500ft of a 600ft rig off of Otter boards last year. I prefer to have the knot in the water, but we didn't have any 500fter's on the boat.(Seadevils) . So out of necessity we half hitched a rubber band around the copper and attached it to a jolly release. It is designed to break the rubber band on a strike. Caught fish with it without any problems. The section of copper between the rod and the board dips quite a bit so we had the rod set in a high position to keep the copper out of the water most of the time. THE RUBBER BAND DID NOT SEEM TO HARM THE COPPER IN ANY WAY.

The most common breaking point on copper rigs last year was at the Albright knot connection just ahead of the knot on the copper side at the backing splice. All the guys that used the Albright knot and new how to catch fish were cussing. Tom, you know who they are! They had to buy more copper from you.

Ernie Lanteigne first showed me the copper set-ups over seven years ago on Lake Michigan with Tim Dawiduk from Howies tackle. He recommended using the spro power swivels to make the connections between the backing to copper and the copper to leader splice. The rigs that I had set up this way did knot break like the Albright knot splices did.

I know that there are folks on Lake Michigan who promote the Albright knot for connecting. It just doesn't seem to hold up well enough on our Lake Ontario Kings. After about six or seven mature kings look out!

I had one 600ft set up last year that took well over sixty kings and is still going strong. I even let BIG FINN use it! It has the spro power swivels on it. I think I became one of Tommy's best customers last year because of the Albright knot. A lot of my buddies had to buy copper from Tommy, too. Sorry Tom, don't mean to cut into your copper sales. I think I made up for it though, with all the other goodies I HAD to buy from you. LOL!

[A-TOM-MIK]

Thanks Jim !! You guys did great last season, we constantly heard your successes from running our copper. Great job to Jim (Ace), Big Fin Gene and Gene, The Screamer boys, Cold Steel, Hat Trick, Sea Devil, etc etc !!! It was nice how all you guys dialed this stuff right in and the new ideas put into place from this old art.

Slippery Sinker in Olcott will have our .037 45# 7 Strand copper in 2, 3, 4, 5, and 600' sections as of Thursday April 26 if interested. Wes picked up an adequate amount to get things started for this area. If anyone else is interested and does not prefer the added costs of shipping from online sales please advise. We will see that your favorite shop gets some copper if they don't already supply it in .037 45#. [email protected] About 7 shops from Sodus to Pulaski already stock it as well

Thanks,

Tom