Rifles

[Justin]

I was just wondering what everyone thinks about them here in the finger lakes. I have heard they approved them for Schuyler county this year. there is a few of us around that disapprove of them but I think we are out numbered. My opinion is we have been using bows, shotguns and muzzleloaders for years why the change now. I guess I will find the biggest tree in my woods and hide the first morning when the neighbors start blazing . In all seriousness in the artea we hunt the range in the woods doesnt justify rifles. Just what I think but what do I know.

[Shade]

Justin,

I thought ruffles in Allegany county where I own property was going to be a problem. Just keep this in mind. Most of the newer shotguns and ammo can get you out there 150 yards, black powder will get you around 300 yards. This can be a problem if you are hunting open fields. Most of us hunt inside woods and I have not seen a kill longer than 100 yards in any woods in WNY. Most hunters today hunt out of tree stands and last there are hunters out there using hand guns that can reach 300 yards already. The new gear is starting to overshadow the hunting.

There was a time when you used a recurve bow with a kill range of 25 yds., shotgun with a bead for a site with a kill range of under 100 yards and a pair of binnoculars. NOW we have shotguns with rifled barrels, 10 power scopes and slugs that can run accurate for 150 - 200 yards, Compound bows that can throw an arrow 340 fps and a kill range of 50 yds.or more, legalized the use of high powered rifles and we are very close to see crossbows become legal also. This is a state with a very weak orange law for hunters but with finest fire power.

Whats next, allow road hunting off pick up trucks....

Shade

[salmonite]

Whats next, allow road hunting off pick up trucks....

Shade

guys around me think its legal now but only at night

[Justin]

Same here

[RUNNIN REBEL]

Justin,

I can tell you having had Pennslyvania hunters on my charters for the past 25+ years and me asking that question every other time out. The consenses is that rifles are NOT so much a safety issue. The main effect of rifles (as shade pointed out) is the distance/accuracy & power they give hunters there, that it shows in size and age (lack of) of mainly bucks. ANY DEER that steps out into a corner of a field at dawn or dusk GETS SHOT AT!!! They even tried a 3 point minimum on one rack to leave some bucks grow. The saying there is " I NEED TO GO GAS UP MY TREE STAND "

ROAD HUNTING AT ITS WORST.

JERRY

[bringley]

I use an Encore .30-06 in Allegany County and have killed deer at extended ranges that my shotgun would not allow, with that said I do not think its any more dangerous to hunt in the Southern tier since they have allowed rifles.

The firearm is only as dangerous as the person who is using it.

[Fish Hunter]

Only as safe as the man behind the trigger. I agree.

[BLOCKHEAD]

i have rifles from when i lived out west. there a tool. 22lr kill people everyyear. i rather see someone use a rifle, and take accurate shots, than grind away with more basic weapons. honestly , i don't care what people use as long as there responsable. if my grandfather wants to use his 30-30 he should have a season to do so. if u want to shoot deer with the latest and greatest rifle that's fine too. hunters are a dying breed, i just hope my son has half the oppertunities i've had to hunt and fish.

[Richard Bullen]

BLOCKHEAD WELL SAID

[chowder]

As a farmer who feels compelled to manage doe numbers on cropland w/ lower hunting pressure every year, I like using a rifle. As an archer who would rather bow hunt than almost anything else, I can't understand why you guy's can't get close enough to kill your deer with a slug gun. The point I'm trying to make is that there are a number of different ways to look at this picture.Bottom line; I will admit that I am not convinced that there are enough experienced individuals out there anymore to allow anybody who has "passed" a hunter safety course to handle a high powered rifle, just because it's allowed in a particular unit.

[Shade]

Fellow Hunters,

Most hunters today either own or lease land and only hunt with friends or family members. The first thing hunter should do is talk to his neighbors. This would allow you to see what type of hunters are around you and where they normally consintrate their hunt. You need to ask if they have any hunters that stalk instead of still hunt and just advise them if you have rifle hunters in your camp and pass this info to your hunting camp.

Chowder asked why we can not get close enough with a slug gun. Todays slug guns can throw a slug accurate up to 200 yards, black powder as far as 250 - 300 yards, pistals can also shoot to 200 yards. The rifle is not the only powerful weapon in the woods anymore.

Safety first. It does not matter what the weapon is but knowing who is around you. If you get permission to hunt neighboring properties or farm land ask who else is hunting on the same land and about the surrounding lands. The biggest area of uncertanty is State lands and I refuse to hunt State lands.

Shade

[chowder]

The central issue around rifles that creates problems for me as a farmland owner and a hunter revolves around the fact that there are not a lot of people hunting around me who have the time to be truly experienced in the pursuit of game animals. Most of the trespassing and poor judgment shots that affect me and my family are the result of persons who are solely focused on "getting a deer" and because they typically have one long weekend per year to do this and have spent a considerable amount of $ (especially if they are from out of state,N.J. plates out number NY plates around me 2:1) I find that judgement suffers in many ways. Up until our MU went rifle, there were just not a lot of long range firearms being used. It was relatively rare to encounter an hunter w/ an inline muzzle loader or a guy w/ a rifled shotgun, if you did they were generally quite dedicated and trustworthy. When our MU went rifle you would see guys picking up a .270, ready mounted with a dawn to dusk Bushnell, at Walmart like they were grabbing a T-Shirt off the rack. I can tell you that this does represent a new challenge for many of us who live, work, and hunt in rural areas which have recently introduced rifles to the MU. I am speaking as someone who has heard "ZING" far too closely for comfort.

[BLOCKHEAD]

times are tight in our house, i've hunted for twenty years and just don't have the time and money to hunt 50 days a year anymore. i have a miltary/law enforcement background and consider myself to be a ethical hunter. i've felt the squeeze to put meat in the freezer with limted time afield. i'd rather spend the season bowhunting,but last season, it was a few weekends with the single shot slug gun. it's tough to find land to hunt without spending a grand. i hunted public land out west, and saftey wise i'd say it's about the same as the east. people out west tend to stay put and take longer well placed shots. i see more people in the east doing sketchy drives and still hunting. both have drawbacks. my friend lost his eye hunting last season from a shotgun.

[chowder]

Blockhead, 10-4 on the "sketchy drive" program,from what I've seen around here it's the running deer that causes people (who can't hit it anyway) to crank off numerous shots without proper regard to what's behind it. I also agree wholeheartedly w/ you on the rich vs. blue collar thing. The best and safest land to hunt around me has long been locked up by persons w/ means who live outside the area. Although it is possible for the average local person to become a wise, seasoned hunter it is far more likely for them to become a casual participant in "sketchy drive" hunting (which is safer w/ a standard slug gun than a high powered rifle).

[BLOCKHEAD]

it's a shame , but i see hunting becoming a sport for a weathy few. my grandfather used to walk to school with his 22, and was on the school rifle team. my son has to go out of state or break the law to use his 22.my friend leases land from wealthy lawyer from jersey. he has to hunt with poachers, or spend half the day with the dec filing reports. the days of knocking on doors and sharing game are all but over. I can't blame landowners for not wanting people on their property. hunting with firearms is a big responsibilty. if your a responsible shotgun hunter, using a rifle should not change things that much. the anti's and the media are my biggest fear. rifles scare people, plain and simple. everytime some meathead does something stupid, it will be front page news. the truth is hunting is about the safest sport ,even when using rifles. driving to your favorite spot or sitting on your couch eating corndogs watching football has a greater risk of killing you. it won't take long for some do gooder to take guns "off the streets".

[Shelby Lynn]

I have a couple farmers that I help out on weekends during haying season when I can, and they allow me and my sons to hunt their land in exchange. Saves them from having to hire someone and gives us a place to hunt without having to worry about alot of other hunters. Don't cost us anything but a little time and the farmers love the help. You can also help in the spring building fence they seem to like that too:)

[Reel Doc]

Gotta add my 2 cents on this one.

Regardless of weapon in the woods, it is all about responsibility. If you are a true sportsman, (that is the term of the 21st century, not hunter), then you are well versed in the use and application of your weapon, and the reason you are afield is not just about the kill, but the joy of being there. We do not fear each other when we go afield, we fear the nonsportsman who is just out there for the kill, and has no clue about the game he is after or his reponsibility to that game and to the other sportsman afield. Like the road rage driver, all of us want to avoid this person from a safety standpoint, but also, we do not want them around for the sake of maintaining the sport. With decreasing numbers of sportsmen, and the increasing age of those of us who are sportsmen, we need to take the lead in setting a good example to the next generations going afield or afloat for that matter.

No doubt the DEC needs to keep the deer harvests at certain levels to maintain proper herd numbers, so adding rifles in more counties is their way of making it "easier" in the minds of many to fill a tag. I would love to use a rifle in Seneca county, (currently not allowed), only because I have never really enjoyed the shotgun kick. Either way, when the shooting starts, I only sit in stands in the center of our property, as the hunting club gang that rents the neighbor's land has some of those nonsportsmen that I prefer to avoid. In a perfect season, my harvest is done before the shooting even starts, and I'm hopeful that can be the case again this year.

Greg

[jvd]

It is all about what kind of hunter you are ....... I will not shoot any gun at game unless I can make a clean kill. If everyone of us hunters used the same thought we would all be safe in the woods w/shotgun,rifle or handgun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[711skwerlz]

I believe rifles have the ability to make clean kills with smaller shot windows. With that said take the range factor out. My .30-.30 will shoot 1 inch groups at 60yds. This is better than the average shotgun in the woods. Most accidents are not caused by one well placed shot, they are caused by shots 3, 4, and 5 at a running animal. Any weapon we use has the potential to kill anything it hits. The weapons don't need management the people do. Maybe we should eliminate drives or limit hunting to single shots (rifles and shotguns) and see how many shotgun"hunters" complain then. I'm willing to bet most people who fight rifles have never shot one or killed a deer with one. They would rather track a gutshot deer 4 miles from a drive than respect the animal and sit and wait for the safely planned out, one shot humane kill. This I think is an ethics issue not a safety issue. If you want that side of the story and look at balistics of ricochets and errant bullets (which shouldn't exist) rifles are no worse than anything we use now. Justin knows my point of view on this topic, we have debated this time and time again. Honestly even now that we can use rifles I don't have anywhere to hunt where its necesarry to break out my .270WSM.

This is just my opinion but I feel very strongly about it. If you do plan on using a rifle this season at least ok it with the landowner they should have the last word on it.

This is just the short version. If you want more ask.

[Reel Doc]

I'm with you 711. But is this conversation on this forum like preaching to the choir? The frustration with poor sportsmen is you cannot get the point out to them about the dangers they pose to themselves, others afield, the game their after, and most importantly, the future of hunting and fishing for that matter. Every incident that occurs afield is fodder for the antihunting movements that get stronger all the time.

Greg

[Justin]

The point I was trying to make is the morons that come up here are even scarier carrying rifles. This is how bad it is Last year a big city "hotshot pulls in the local gas station bragging about his "buck" he killed which in fact was somebodys goat that got loose.A few years before that a farmer lost a jersey cow , and another lost a donkey to these highly educated people. Cmon do those type of poeple need to be carrying rifles. I know they are as safe as the person carrying them. The othert issue is the size of the rifle. The 300 and 7mm and such just seem a little big to be shooting 150-200lb whitetails. As far as the landowners permission that is a great idea because there are a few in this area that said no way, not here. Everyone has opinons and that is mine. I was trying to get the general consensus on the issue. I was not trying to ruffle any ones feathers. Hunt Safe and have fun.

[dremarquis]

i'd feel far safer with people shooting one shot of a rifle than the too-common unethical hunter who shoots five slugs at running deer.

if a hunter is hunting from a tree stand, the bullet will go into the ground, whether from a rifle or shot gun

also, given that much of the hunting in the fingerlakes is heavily wooded, even a rifle bullet fired from ground level is unlikely to go much further than a slug (will be stopped by trees)

personally, i'd like to see rifles legal but semi-automatics and pump guns illegal. I believe an ethical hunter doesn't take more than one shot without moving the gun from his shoulder = bolt or level action is fine (for a second follow up shot, but not for 3-5 shots that are obviously low percentage shots)

andre