10% Ethanol in the gas

[Iceman]

I am running a 1986 Yamaha 175 two stroke & a 1996 Yamaha 9.9 high thrust four stroke on my Lund Newport 2100. As of the last month, all gas stations in my area have gone to the 10% ethanol in the gas, will this cause me any problems with these older motors? My gas tank is aluminum, & I have the standard fuel lines with a spin on water seperator. I am adding Marine Stabil (for use w/ethanol) with each fueling now.

My boat is used 9 to 10 months out of the year, & only sits in the garage in January, Feburary, & part of March. I do get in the water some of these months if there is a big warm spell & the roads are dry, & launches open.

What is recommended for these engines using the 10% ethanol, & what should I be worried about??

Thanks in advance for your insight & suggestions!

[Has Been]

I have heard from a friend of mine who owns a small engine repair shop that the eth. is corosive and does damage. He said the gas now is garbage & has no shelf life at all . He said to use high test w/ No eth if you can.My generator Was stored in my garage & hadnt been run for about 10 months & one day I smelled gas bad in my gar. Somthing happened that the carb had to be rebuit.Leaked gas all over the floor. Now I think it was the eth. Kwik fill has no eth in it according to the attendantI asked.

[Erbyjoe]

As long as you fill the tank up and stabilize the fuel or completely empty the tanks you should be OK. I fill my Lund up and stabilize the fuel and have been doing this now ever since they started putting in ethanol. and it goes in storage from Nov 1 to April. Here in Mass they don't have any non ethanol gas stations. As far as the 1986 motor the fuel lines might be worth changing because the ethanol might eat at them depending how old they are. Your 8 HP should be OK but you might want to check the fuel line on that also.and having a water separator is very important but make sure it has the highest # filter rating on it I can't remember how high it should be Maybe someone will chime in. I'm no expert but this is what I do to my Lund every year Good luck

[LongLine]

Keep an eye on fuel lines. Especially under the cowling (carbs, etc) Also the fuel pump diaphragm. If you see any sign of deterioration, replace them, before any "cr@p" gets into the engine.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[fishfearme]

Listen to what Erby said hes a smart guy.

[rolmops]

Ethanol has been in our gas in Rochester and most of the country for that matter for the past 8 years.

Ethanol will loosen up dirt in your lines and old tanks.This dirt will make it to your injectors unless you have good filters along the way.There is no need for 2 stroke outboards to go higher than 87 octane,so unless you run a 4 stroke you can stick with 87.

Ethanol will dry up and crack old (pre 2000) rubber fuel lines and rubber seals and gaskets.

Just make sure that whatever fuel lines you buy have "alcohol resistant " printed on the line or package.

The one point where ethanol will cause trouble is with fiber glass fuel tanks because it will dissolve the seams and that is bad news.

If you want to put a stabilizer in your fuel then you should go with "Sea Foam",because this not only stabilizes,it also decarbs and cleans your injectors and carburetors and on top of that you can also use it to winterize your engine when you get it in a spray bottle.It is available in car parts stores.(advanced auto parts and the like)

[jimski2]

http://www.fuel-testers.com/is_gas_addi ... _list.html

More gasoline stuff

[dewey123]

ethanol wont do damage to your motor, i haul fuel for a living. it is just grain alcohol. it burns hotter therefore you dont get the MPGs like you do with gas without ethanol but if you get "branded" gas (sunoco, citgo, mobil, BP) you wont see much difference as for ethanol eating away fiberglass that is not true......gas stations use fiberglass tanks to hold fuel! Ethanol will clog up your fuel filters as well. ALL motors are built to run on 10% ethanol or less, unless it is a e-85 flex fuel vehicle. Motors have been built like this for many years.

[dewey123]

and ethanol is definitly not a corrosive liquid

[rolmops]

ethanol wont do damage to your motor, i haul fuel for a living. it is just grain alcohol. it burns hotter therefore you dont get the MPGs like you do with gas without ethanol but if you get "branded" gas (sunoco, citgo, mobil, BP) you wont see much difference as for ethanol eating away fiberglass that is not true......gas stations use fiberglass tanks to hold fuel! Ethanol will clog up your fuel filters as well. ALL motors are built to run on 10% ethanol or less, unless it is a e-85 flex fuel vehicle. Motors have been built like this for many years.

What you say about ethanol not damaging fiberglass is true.the problem is with the glue that was used in older tanks,this glue dissolves .

[jimski2]

I reported that the alcohol fumes from my gas tank dissolved my downrigger plastic cover, my worm harness beads and the glue that holds my carpet to the plywood floor. Keep your gas tank vents closed and remember to open them up when you start your engine.

[dewey123]

there is no glue in fiberglass tanks, and older fuel tanks are made of steel. the reason for changing to fiberglass is that steel rusts and then leaks into the enviornment. fiberglass tanks are patched or repaired using fiberglass resin wich is highly dangerous to breath in. I am not trying to get on your case or make a big deal out of gasoline but i deal with the crap at work all the time and I am trained to handle/unload fuel and have to be highly knowledgable about the products i haul. If you buy good name "branded" fuels you will get better performance. places like delta sonic and tops buy unbranded gasoline which is ok and meets the requirments but doesnt have as much additives as a branded fuel will have. additives will cause more efficient burning maximizing your fuel usage in your engine

[stinger]

Thanks Drewey for the info. It's good to have someone on here that knows what their talking about. We all go off half-cocked because my buddy said,...or I heard that,.... keep a full tank,.....store with a empty tank,... vent open, vent closed,...blah, blah, blah. Good accurate information will save us all a lot of money and blow away some of those myths out there.

This topic has come up several times and the confusion on how to deal with the ethanol additive abounds us. Please continue to straighten us out. Some of us are listening.

Thanks

[dewey123]

stinger, there isnt too much you can do as far fuel treatments other than the stuff you pick up at walmart autozone like STP i like to use now and then on longer trips where i know i will burn a tank of fuel and put all or most of the fuel treatment through the system. as for water in you gas tank the treatment should dry it up. ALL gas tanks have water in them, it doesnt mean you got it at the pump because 99.999% you wont get water there because when i deliver gas i have to use water detecting paste and if there is more than 1 " of water you are not supposed to deliver the gas untill the store owner can pump out the gas. you get water in the tank from condensation, you cant stop it from happening...unless your tank is completeley full. if you stick with mobil or a big named gas station you will get a better quality of gas (more additive) but if you can get gas without ethanol it will burn better.

[HPORT]

Well....it depends who you ask.

The current Ethanol blends are various gasoline and ethyl alcohol combinations ( E10, E22, E85, E100, etc...) Ethyl alcohol is an excellent solvent and is hygroscopic (adsorbs water). Acting as a solvent, ethanol can damage the sealants used on older fiberglass fuel tanks, fuel system seals and gaskets. The dissolved sealants can be ingested by the engine which can cause damage and fuel leaking from a tank into the bilge is a fire hazard. Fuel tanks built of other materials are not immune to having a problem. Ethanol has a cleaning effect on tanks that releases fine metallic particles which will pass through most fuel filters. The dissolved metals will clog fuel injector nozzles and carburetors. Ethanol added to a fuel tank contaminated with water will cause expensive repairs. The water in the tank will combine with the ethyl alcohol to produce a noncombustible layer of liquid in the tanks that is heavier then the fuel itself, and the pick-up for the fuel system being located in the bottom of the tank usually results in the engine quitting. A complete tank cleaning is required to repair this situation. I have done a few repairs caused by this exact issue, so its real.

Ethanol is corrosive, by nature of its manufacturing process. There are many documents with the same finds, ethanol has caused fuel pump failures from corrosion. See one below for example.

"Catastrophic failures of fuel pumps used to transport ethanol have occurred in various facilities. Failures occurred in as little as 50 hours on pumps with a 2000-hour life expectancy. Post-failure inspection of the pumps showed corrosive pitting of the metal in the areas of sliding contact. Several potential causes, including cavitation, thermal expansion of pump parts, and fuel contaminants such as acetic acid were ruled out. Fuel samples from facilities with high pump failure rates passed all D 4806 specification tests for fuel-grade ethanol, including titratable acid by D 1613. However, pH readings as low as 2.0 indicated potentially corrosive fuels. Controlled tests on pumps and corrosion tests showed that pump failures correlated with fuel pH. Corrosive fuels were found to contain ethyl sulfate, which correlated with fuel pH. It appears that ethyl sulfate originates from sulfur dioxide, which is used as an antioxidant and antiseptic in the production of ethanol.

The observed wear and/or other deterioration mechanisms were mainly due to the abrasion and corrosion. The tests showed that abrasion mechanisms were more pronounced in the E22 fuel and the corrosion mechanisms were more damaging in the E60 and E100 fuels. The fuel pumps gears lubrication regime was calculated and the tested fuels lubricities were also measured."

[stinger]

Thanks Dewey. I guess I'll just keep on treating the gas in my boat the same way. Gas with out ethanol in it is getting harder & harder to find now. The one local station that I was using just had their tanks replaced so I imagine they will also have the blended gas.

I've been adding the Sta-Bil Marine treatment every time I fill up since the `08 season. I haven't had any engine issues with my main or kicker and the last two times I changed my fuel/water separator it didn't have any water in it so maybe I'm just lucky or maybe that stuff does work.

[jimski2]

Motor Home trip to Fort Meyers, FL ended up with rust in the fuel filter, ten wheeler wrecker tow job, thanks to AAA RV PLUS for towing and hotel charges. Thanks to the Washington politicians for shoving this stuff down our throats.

[dewey123]

if you use diesel fuel, starting in may 2010 here in PA it will be mandatory that diesel fuel will be a 2% blend with biodiesel. this is basically the same theory as E10 gasoline. this 2% biodiesel blend will reduce MPG and power, increase nitrogen emissions, more expensive and other blends of biodiesel are not yet warrantied by auto makers. though biodiesel is nontoxic reduction in greenhouse gases except nitrogen, biodegradable it is also made in the USA. that is about the only plus. In some states like OH they use a sub octane gas and use ethanol to boost the octane(like 84 octane blended with 10% ethanol will boost it to 87 octane.) in places with clean air acts with reduced RVP gasoline (using 7.8 rvp gasoline instead of 9.0 rvp gasoline) you cannot put ethanol in the gas because it will make it 9.0 rvp gas somehow so 7.8 gasoline is straight gasoline but it has reduced MPG's. RVP is reid vapor pressure and they are talking about the tank at the gas station, the reid basically holds the vapors from going out the vent pipe into the atmosphere. For me the only good thig about this biodiesel and ethanol is that it is just more product for me to haul, they do not send these 2 products up the pipelines therefor they ship by trucks or rail. you just cant mix these products with other products in the pipelines because when they send a shipment all products go through the same pipelines and because of different weights in product they "do not" mix and bidiesel wouldnt be biodiesel if it was shipped in the same line as diese it will mix and you will have regular diesel, same with ethanol it will mix with the gas and wont unmix and not every customer get ethanol in the gas and that would be an obscene ethanol mix and ruin both products. sorry to ramble on, just alittle info to pass on.