Connecting Copper to Backing

[waterlogged]

We need to connect our backing to a new 400' section of Atomik copper since losing all 400' last fall on a huge fish.

Never had this happen before - especially on a new reel spooled and bought from Atomik and we had run this 400' rod less than 6 times. The copper broke right at the knot where it attached to the backing. I will attach a photo if I still can find the piece of backing I cut off to have it evaluated by more knowledgeable people than us.

From reading the numerous posts and viewing videos from Fish Doctor I see a Spro swivel, Palomar knot on the power pro backing end and a haywire twist are used.

My question is will it make a difference if we put heat shrink tubing over the 2 knots and the swivel or should it be left uncovered (swivel action and all being the determining factor?

Thanks in advance,

Clarke

[Billy V]

Clarke,

I rig my copper just like Fish Doc does, and I leave the Spro uncovered. But you need to check the connection to the backing frequently as it'll wear and could potentially break. When I'm letting the copper out I always stop at the Spro swivel and check it. If it looks frayed, I'll re-tie it while I have the copper in the water. I've often wondered if a piece of shrink tube would help to minimize the fraying of the backing material.

[Legacy]

Im sure it cant hurt but i dont think its needed.

[on the lam]

Maybe my connections are a little unconventional, but I have had only one connection failure on 8 copper rods I run in a number of years. I run a 10' length of 30#mono (ande) between the copper and the backing (PP). It serves as a place to clip a release or a inline board for a better grip. then I use an albright knot at both the copper connection as well as the PP backing connection. It may not be true, but i feel an albright knot tied with mono improves the strength of the knot. It does add another point of failure but I have had good success with not having knot failures. Using a spro is fine i guess, I just choose not to do it that way.

[Broadhorizons]

I'm going to be setting up some copper also and was wondering if it would be recommended to put heat shrink on the haywire twists to help travel through the guides of the rod? Would this help keep the tag end of the twist stay tight to the mainline?

[waterlogged]

Thanks,

I was thinking of line twist being a problem with the shrink tubing over the swivel - that's where I was going.

Billy V - The copper actually broke as the power pro backing knot was perfect. I hope I still have it so I canpost the photo.

[on the lam]

Clarke, I'm missing something I think. You feel that a line twist problem is effecting the copper knot 400' from the flasher/lure? Why/how could that happen with the proper BB swivels at the lure. I think if that was the case the leader should show line twist problems long before the copper would be effected by it? I would think covering the spro connection with shrink tubing would eliminate the movement between the soft copper against a hard rigid spro swivel which could be the cause of the failure. (or not). But a soft line (copper) against a soft line (mono/PP) w/albright knot would be more forgiving on the connection. IMO. Good for discussion I think. It is January.

[Miss em]

There is no movement between the copper and the Spro swivel. That knot will last the life of your copper setup. We're talking decades here. The mono knot and backing knot should get retied once in a while. The backing knot we use now is a loop type knot that we tie with the actual loop a couple feet long so you have a length of doubled backing to hook your release to. Works really well. I'll see if I can find a picture of the loop know we use. The shrink tube over the swivel will add to the overall diameter and would make it tougher to get through most Okuma level winds. Shrink tube on the end of the haywire twist is not a bad idea at all. Just my $.02.

[spoonfed-1]

Shrink tubing over the whole thing will keep you from seeing your knots.

If there is a problem you won't know it until it's to late.

Glen

[skipper19]

Like Pete, I like the albright knot as well. No failure yet on mine. I use the less popular 30 lb copper and it holds up with this knot tied directly to the 30 lb powerpro backing. it is smooth if tied carefully and passes the line guide on a penn 309 no problem. The flouro leader is tied with the same knot at the terminal end of the copper.

Mark

[Gill-T]

5 minute epoxy over the copper knot. Works great.

[lakebound88]

may i ask what youre running copper on? and for? i run it for the old "meet rod" aka seth green rig, when fishing for lakers..seems to never fail, but i phased out of this except when tournament fishing, strictly use my cannons and out riggers now..also, is it worth my while to set up a couple dipsy rods with wire line???

[Hookedup]

Lakebound88, Dump the seth green rig talk about a pain in the but The copper we run is run like lead core in sections ex 200, 300, 400, and 600 ft sections and with core I run 2 colors up to 12 colors. You can use copper for anything its just a way to get your lure to the depth you want. If you want send me a pm some time I will show you the riggs I run when im back on Seneca this spring. As for wire dipsy rods they are the only dipsey riggs I would start with they will put fish in the boat. They will out fish your seth green rig and be much more enjoyable. Sean

[Fishtails]

I too use the small spro for the copper to pp connection. I tried the albright, but the spro just gives me a higher degree of confidence in my connection. While I don't use heat shrink at that connection, I do use it when splicing two pieces of copper together with a spro and haywire twists.