3 rod rule needs our help

[spoonfed-1]

Are you saying there are 5360 members against the 3 rod rule?

What would your position be?

That IS what the topic is about if you care to discuss it.

I'm all for it and believe it will do a lot more good than harm to the fishery.

The 2 rod rule is now in place and it is a fact the number of people fishing the lake along with the money they bring to the fishery as well as the local econmies are on a decline. Thats doesn't seem to be good at all for the fishery because it is money that maintains the fishery as it is.

Somethings got to be done to reverse this trend or the fishery as we know it will eventually be gone.

Alot of guys that fish the lake do it to catch fish. If they catch a few fish they are happy and are much more likely to return particularly if they have to travel a distance to do it.

A couple of trips with no fish they might not return.

Not everybody on the water has the experience and ability to be able to beat up on these fish. There is also an awful lot of water for those fish to be in.

Glen

[rail bird]

Things might not be as they appear. There was a lengthy post by Has Been on here for a short time yesterday. I did not have a chance to read it but noticed it was there and later when I went to read it it was gone. I would guess it was removed by the moderators and I can say I've never seen that happen without reason.

I have dissagreed on topics in the past here and have been a member of this board from the very begining when Capt. Steve Drave started it. I find if you have a difference of opinion you are more than welcome to discuss it and even argue it but try not to belittle or insult other people for their opinions or you got to expect some type of similar response. Then things can get ugly and unproductive. Thats when the moderators got to step in and BABY SIT. I can assure you thats not what they like to do. They do a great job here.

Glen

My apologies to Ray if he was reacting to a deleted post that may have been inflamatory.

Without the context of the post in question it just seemed out of place.

[larryg]

I'm not in favor of the 3 Rod Rule at this time for the simple fact NYS DEC Bureau of Fisheries has not yet achieved its' goal, set after 5,100 Coho Salmon were released in Catteragus Creek on January 31, 1968, to establish a self-sustaining population of native species in the Great Lakes fishery.

We have had many successes and pitfalls sense trying to reach that goal including the strategy of implementing angling regulations limiting anglers to operate only 2 lines with or without rods. I don't think increasing the hook points is a good idea giving were we are at today.

Also, current angling regulations are are divided into 8 sections containing over 50 sub-sections with Great Lakes and Tributary Regulations being but one. What bothers me is a 3 Rod Rule on the tributaries would be a nightmare. Even if the 3 Rod Rule was restricted to the the Lakes only it would, by definition, allow 3 rod from all first bridges to the open waters of the lakes. I don't want to even think about trying to get to or from my slip through a gauntlet of boats with 3 rods per person (visions of shooting flares across the bow)!

Those 1968 positive-thinking DEC Fisheries people that gave us the Great Lakes fishery we enjoy today addressed sportfishing ethics and gave us their future vision stating,"Catching the legal limit will be replaced by the perception of a quality fishing experience as a principle measure of success with a catch and release fishing ethic that will become widespread, as more anglers fish for about the same quantity of fish, that will allow growth while maintaining a quality in the fishery."

IMHO, if we are to be a valued partner in accomplishing the goals and vision those that started this fishery 40 years ago we must not support the 3 Rod Rule at this time. Do we leave future generations what was left us in before 1968.

[spoonfed-1]

Larry

Thats all good info that I was not aware of. Just for my own education could you elaborate a little more on the actual success of that Coho planting in the last 42 years.

And if that success was as hoped would you still be against the 3 rod rule?

As far as the boats fishing from the first bridge isn't there laws regarding blocking a water way used for navigation already in place?

Thanks for your input.

Glen

[janz]

I think it should be one rod per person as it gets confusing enough with 2. Then I wouldn't have to buy as much tackle and equipment. LOL

[spoonfed-1]

LOL Two rods out of that big ole boat you got.

I don't know if you'd be able to find um.

FISH ON....

Wheres the rod....

You got lots of room for tackle to.

[holy mackerel]

Glen

I am not saying there are 90% against it. I do believe people are hesistant to say they are, and risk verbal abuse.

My view is: Undecided. I have not heard any good reasons. Everything so far has been a real stretch.

It sounds like lowering the basketball hoop for the short guy.

The economy is responsible for the decline in people to the area. The fishing has been quite consistant

for the last 30 years.

You can't tell me that by adding one more rod that folks can all of a sudden afford a trip to the lake.

It won't save energy or create jobs, what am I missing?

You and I both know even if it went to one rod, most of the members would still be on the lake.

If it does go through, I hope the hook points or number of lures does not change. I would rather have 2 rods with cheaters than 3 clean. Also, if they go to 3 hook points, that means no jplugs, stickbaits or flies with stinger hook.

[spoonfed-1]

I would have to disagree with the consistant fishing part. The economy has been in the crapper for what not even 2 years. Everything I've read and seen and heard from a couple Capts I know that have time on the lake indicates the decline in Lake fishing has been going on longer that. I'll do a little digging and see if I can locate some more solid facts on this. Never said 1 more rod will enable people to afford a trip. If you read the post I said if they catch a few fish they are much more likley to return. You miss quote me.

For me my most productive spread is 6 rods. Almost never have more than 3 people on the boat. No cheaters. Generally speaking that is.

Like everything else you put in the water the cheaters have their days.

Don't believe there was anything in the petition about reducing lures or hook points

so if it goes through you can still fish the way you want.

Very much like you I haven't heard any good reasons NOT to change it.

I can't speak for anybody else but I can speak for myself when it comes to the expense I go through to fish this Big Lake and there is no way I would do it to be limited to a 1 rod per like you mentioned on a lake thats close to 200 miles long. A lot of other places to go and catch fish. Not sure the guys that pound out a living out there would be to happy either.

Glen

[ray koziatek]

Holy mac--- thier are 6147 members,approx 3950=0, have never made a post,5525= 5 or less post,,,5718= 25 or less post,,,,,5989= less than 100 post ,,that leaves 158 that have made over 100 post .....Judging from this id say many do not partake in this site other than for info or to check it out which is a great thing .. if we can help 1 fisherman have a better day on the water then all is good .....to say only 10% voted for (3 rods) is sorta ,kinda,maybe, not a totally accurate way to determin how many are for or against so if you were to say all the people who made 5 or more post are for this ,100% voted ----(YES )...I know sorta twist of numbers but i think a lot of the more active members are for the rule... I Know for a fact on my boat more shakers have bit the bullet due to my fault of draging them along without checking my spread often enuf than fish properly released...I am one of the lucky ones who almost never get skunked ,,only (1) time in 6or 7 years but i am a dark to dark fisherman as i love being on the water so my normal day of 12 hrs or more is a little excessive compared to the normal person, Guess i fall into the NOT NORMAL group. After 2 close calls in the last 10 years with the grim reeper ,my outlook on life is a lot different as i try to live each day to its fullest...so when i fish its fishing hard when i hunt its that way too,,,,,,,,, and.......oh well forget that one after 22 yrs marrage,, So for a first timer or less experianced guy or gal drop down 3 rods and increase your chance of getting Your First fish or LINE RIPPING SALMON by33% GO FOR IT..Heck now when i take out new guys im basicly just there for (two rods) and camera guy as i enjoy watching others get their first Lake Ontario Salmon or Big Fish....but im all for being called ,,,,,,3 RODS FOR ONCE.

[holy mackerel]

I wonder why more members don't post their opinions??

I can't believe dragging 5 or 10 thousand extra lures around the lake every weekend won't affect the fishery.

Can we agree to disagree?

It may go through, but the reasons I've read, are weak and selfish in my opinion.

[LongLine]

THE NYSDEC conducts an angler survey on Lake Ontario every year and publishes their results in their annual report:

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/27068.html

In section 2, particularly table A2, (pg 31) they reveal the actual numbers used to assess angling effort and use. For “All fishing boatsâ€, the fishing boat trips, boat angler trips and boat angler hours for 2008 are the 2nd lowest in the last 10 years. (only 2006 was slightly lower) The numbers are somewhere near 40% of the 1985-98 average. (also shown)

Further down, trips for residents & non-residents does the same thing – down (to the 40% level)

In section D which is for boats seeking salmon/trout – again the same thing – near 40%. Also in sect D, the average number of anglers per trip is 2.99. (This later number is very close to the numbers given for all years and tells me in 2008 that for every charter with 6 people on board there had to be 3 boats with only two on board; and/or even more boats with less than 2 on board. IE there’s been a lot of “little guys†trying to catch fish.)

In Table A6 on pg 37, which is specifically for boats seeking salmon & trout, 55.6% of all boats seeking T&S had zero harvest and 41% of all boats seeking had zero catch of any T&S in 2008.

Further down the table for 2008, it shows that only 1.8% of the charters seeking T&S caught there bag limit for their entire party. It also shows that of the non-charters only 1% caught their bag limit. (These are the lowest numbers in 5 years.)

BTW, I don’t know about lowering nets for short people, but I do know that not nearly as many people would be interested in that sport today if they hadn’t played in grammar school gym class when they were shorter and the nets lower.

2nd BTW - Salmon didn't take to the Cat - but Trout have.

IMO, if the 3-rod rule helps to lower the 41% & raise the 1% then it's worth it.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[holy mackerel]

Ray' nice job with the numbers, sounds like Washington.

I never said only 10% were for it. I only questioned why 10% bothered to sign.

I do attend the state of the lake meeting, most years, and I am aware of the numbers that the understaffed Dec came up with.

We hardly ever see the creel censous crew anymore.

I also remember'08 was a slower catch, but 07, 'o9 were fantastic.

[Has Been]

After being scolded by the moderator for personal attacks & having an " attitude that is getting real old real fast " I decided to take my oppinion to th DEC & have contacted a few div. & urged them to thwart any legislation that may come down the line concerning the 3 rod rule for reasons I stated. I will tommorow try a few more. I stayed away from polititians who I would be suprized If they knew an 8 wt from a downrigger wt or a spin dr from a picture of themself.

I aslo never said I wanted to snag fish I f you reread the post( sorry , you can't ) I only used it as a comparison.

If I look into my crystal ball I see if the law passes, New and more effitient ways to deploy multiple lines with extreme precision to any depth . Self propeled side boards planning out to 200 yards or more carring multiple lines .When will the power asist great lakes reel be available? Interface them to the helm w/ a joystick and you won't even have to leave your seat. Cars drive the speed limit so most anglers will fish max number allowed . Don't attempt to tell me what will or probably will happen.

I have talked with fellow anglers about this & a lot don't like trolling for S & T. A friend who hunts out west & fishes FLA. says that he likes a more hands on approch. Likes to cast & retrive , feel the strike. Says trolling is an 'inpersonal " way to fish. Took him fly fishing tribs this spring & he liked that. Combine that with the fact that Sal Trolling is a very expensive way to fish & a 10 + % unemployment rate to see why numbers are down. Look at all the boats for sale. Thats my research.

I have morereasons but I will keep them to myself . I would not want to appear beligerant of combative to some on this issue.Did the fairness docterine pass when I wasn't looking?

And you guys can say whatever you want about or to me. I'm a man & my skin is as thick as it gets .This isn't the first time this has happened to me. The politics of ridicule. I do this to conserve & respect the resources of the lake for future generations& yes those that disagree with me.

Tight lines & Fish on!!!

[ray koziatek]

holy mac yer probly right on the dec being understaffed ,instead of hanging out at larger marinas like "Hughes" ive seen them several time at the smaller ones like oak orchard,sodus oswego,wilson ,olcott and little salmon and salmon river the info collected at these small ports is probly about useless do to the small amount of charters and rec boats that use these small ports,i agree hughes and maybe sandy pond should be some of the larger ports they should frequent so they can get it right...very good on your observations sounds even more like the washington of today... " has been " maybe ill take back that apoligy and thanks for your Idea .....I ENCOURAGE ALL 610 OR MORE WHO SIGNED THIS HELPFUL PETATION TO CALL EVERY DEC OFFICE YOU CAN FIND AND ILL BET OL LONGLINE WILL HAVE US A LIST AS FAST AS HE SEES THIS YOU GUYS ARE GREAT AND HELPFULL IN GETTING ALL 600 PLUS MEMBERS FIRED UP TO DO MORE THAN JUST SIGN A PATITION BUT TO PICK UP YOUR PHONE COPY LONGLINES LIST AND LET THE DEC KNOW WE WOULD LIKE THE 3 ROD RULE , AND WHEN YOUR AT THE WATER COOLER HAND OUT A FEW OF THESE , IF EVERYONE WHO IS FOR SHARES IT WITH 10 POEPLE THEN WE WILL HAVE THE 100% HOLY MAC IS LOOKING FOR AND HAVE EM SIGN THE ONLINE REQUEST FOR 3 RODS

YOU GUYS ARE THE GREATEST!!!!!

P.S. the only edit ive done is this P.S. forgot to answer holy macs post about why only 10% responded .... Again without reposting the numbers (available to all) from the Memberlist search about 10% or 600 of 6000 members activly post more than 5 post on the L.O.U. site, so the folks with 5 or more post are almost 100% for this.. (or was it 14 cat leg answer joke)

[LongLine]

I'll get the list on tonight.

In the meantime - maybe the DEC is understaffed because the number of fishermen has been going down????? Maybe the politicians see a connection - IE if there's less interest and/or participation why spend as much money there?

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[spoonfed-1]

Thanks for locating those FACTS for us Longline. I took a look last night and couldn't locate them in the time I had. If these FACTS pointed in the other direction I'm quite sure they would be good enough for those that want to argue them now. Without a doubt that is what I see going on on the lake or to word it more accurately my opinion. I hope we can do something to reverse this trend.

Good point Ray. I know I'll be on the phone when Tom posts that list for us.

Main reason the State gives a dam about our fishery is because it generates dollars.

Take those dollars out of the equation and were would we be? They couldn't support it even if a few in government wanted to.

Sad but true.

Has Been how can you post your crystal ball comment and then tell others not to tell you what MIGHT happen because it's based on opinion. Kinda hypocritical AGAIN.

Really wish I had more time on this one but gotta work.

Glen

[goin deep]

For the record, I voted for the 3 rod rule. Will I run an extra rod for each person on the boat if it goes through? Probably not. I normally run a 6 rod spread whether there is 3 people on my boat or 5 people. The only time I would run 3 rods per person (if the law changed) is when there is only 2 people on my boat. I seriously doubt everyone would start running 3 rods per person just because they can. Just my opinion.

Brian

[GAMBLER]

I also voted yes. I would do more short afternoon trips after work if I could run 6 rods with 2 guys. If you could catch a couple more fish (in theory) it would make short trips with 2 guys in the boat worth it. Lets face it, most guys don't have boats big enough to run more than 8 rods without massive tangles. Most would only use this rule when it was 2 or 3 guys in the boat.

[Has Been]

I guess it all comes down to the almighty dollar. Some of the reasons I hear mirror& rival the ones I hear from my kids.Favt & figures just like the ones from my life insurance salesman. Do morals & respect for the resource have any bearing hear? Some of you guys are willing to make & have made a mockery of the sport. Fishing evolved way back when for food gathering reasons & has evolved into a game . The kids of today have no attention span at all &it's no wonder. Take your names off LOU pledge if you don't want to follow it.We are so worried about the lake. Calling ME a hipocriite? Out west at some hunting ranches they wanted to mount a rifle with a scope on a turet that you could controll from a mouse from your computer and actually shoot the deer from the computer at your home. Could adapt that to a rod holder on the back of a boat with a joystick and play the fish from your home PC . What a GREAT idea!!!!!!!!!! . I could catch a fish & not even leave the house.If all you had to do was buy a licence & pay the charter , I'm sure the state would approve. Also I say wtih the reasoning I hear to say YES put up those wind turbines . The state will get a short term boost of revenue that we sorly could use. I don't fish the eastern basin so what do I care.When they fall over even more structure out there to fish around. Yup, Yup, got to have those3 rods to keep those poor unfortunate kids interested in fishing, YUP , YUP. And guys won't come back up here cause they can,t catch a fish out thereYUP.

The less fish out there to catch so lets catch more of them rational is crazy. The Tribs are packed each year with more & more coming up each year w/ the fly fishing boom . Lets preserve & leave more of the fish in the lake to return to spawn so that end of it gets more & more state profitable.In fact maybe we should reduce the creel limit on the lake as they did the tribs to help that end. Only take one steelhead per on the lake also.That seems to be the growth side of this.Its way cheeper for a guy to fish the tribs than the lake.But my guess is it won,t go over big on this board .People& buisness have been fleeing this state because of high taxes & no employment for years. With everyone that leaves goes a few fisherman & licence fees& tax dollars& fines . DEC used to be fish &wildlife management for most part but now has to deal with more & more enviromental issues. The selfishnes I see on this amazes me.Maybe its just me and my old attitude. And I was personaly attacted, belittled & insulted on this thread and others.And to no surprize those are still there. Well, got to go out to the garage & invent a set of planer boards that can carry those extra lines. I figure a 4x8 sheet of plywwod & my boat winch ought to do it.Get some of those big reels to hold that 3000 ft of copper& go down to the weight room so I have the mussle to turn the handle . Maybe a tug boat & weld up a set of rocket launcers& some 20 ' booms for my extra riggers . I wonder if the Zoo would loan out a few of their Chimps ?

[GAMBLER]

Has Been,

How does running 3 rods per person make a mockery of the sport? Please explain this one? Like someone said before, Lake Michigan has the 3 rod rule and there fishing is not hurting at all. If you don't want 3 rods, don't run 3. Reduce the creel in the lake? Do you know what kind of effects this would have on the bait population? In the lake, atleast the fish have a choice to eat. They are spread over thousands of acres of water. In the streams, 1000's of fish are stuffed into shallow creeks and easy picking for snaggers, lifters and legit fisherman. This is why creels in the tribs should be less than the lake.

[holy mackerel]

Now it has come to belittle one of the small struggling business that this is supposed to help? ( Hughe's marina)

You have proven my point, If someone doesn't agree with your way of thinking, gang up on them.

This will be my last post on the subject, so back pats all around!

Good luck with future un-biased polls.

[big easy]

I don't see the three rod rule hurting the fishery at all,especially if the creel limits are kept at the same numbers as they currently are.

Take a look at all the technology that has come to fishing over the years,yet we still have excellent fishing.

Do you remember fishing before fishfinders were available?,remember when there were no down riggers?,remember when there were no planer boards,or fish scents,or GPS,or speed and temp instruments, etc.

Well I do.I remember having to troll with lead core and wire,and not knowing how deep we were,I remember when the green box flasher from Lowrance first came out.

All this Technology like sonar, fish finders,downriggers,etc. helped us to catch more fish,yet the fishing didn't suffer.We were able to have better fishing without decimating the fish population.This was because of better fisheries management.To this day after all the help from the gadgets that were invented to improve the catch rate,the fishing in many bodies of water has actually improved.

Has Been,can I ask how you would have reacted to the invention of the Fish finder,or Downrigger etc.at that period?Would you have called your politicians asking them not to allow this stuff,for fear it would ruin the fishery?

Allowing three rods is not going to ruin the fishing,it will however allow those of us who love and care for the sport just as much as you do,to be able to try a few different presentations.

I would like to think that Most of us who take this sport seriously,have the common sense and the intelligence to know how to protect our fishery,by the proper use of catch and release methods,and by not exceeding creel limits.

I get the impression that you think you care more about the sport,or know more about it than the rest of us do.I would venture to say that most of us Know and care as much about the future of fishing as you,and want to preserve it for future generations to enjoy.

If three rods per person helps me make a novice fisherman get hooked on the sport,and to become another future angler who loves all there is about the sport then I'm all for it.

[larryg]

Took your advice and called the DEC. Which, by the way I got the number from my 2009-10 OFFICIAL REGULATION GUIDE, so no need to post a list.

The first part of the DEC's reply was expected,"The DEC has no position for or against a 3 Rod Law for the Great Lakes. Should the Legislature pass the bill and the Governor sign it into law the DEC will include a 3 Rod Law in the Angling Regulations"

The next part of the reply was not expected, "The DEC is authorized and justified to declare Lake Erie and Ontario a recreational marine areas requiring a Receational Marine Licence or a Trout and Salmon stamp above the regular and lifetime Licences to defer costs".

That reply sure looks to me like HAS BEEN is right, it is all about the almighty dollar.

[spoonfed-1]

I guess it all comes down to the almighty dollar. Some of the reasons I hear mirror& rival the ones I hear from my kids.Favt & figures just like the ones from my life insurance salesman. Do morals & respect for the resource have any bearing hear? Some of you guys are willing to make & have made a mockery of the sport. Fishing evolved way back when for food gathering reasons & has evolved into a game . The kids of today have no attention span at all &it's no wonder. Take your names off LOU pledge if you don't want to follow it.We are so worried about the lake. Calling ME a hipocriite? Out west at some hunting ranches they wanted to mount a rifle with a scope on a turet that you could controll from a mouse from your computer and actually shoot the deer from the computer at your home. Could adapt that to a rod holder on the back of a boat with a joystick and play the fish from your home PC . What a GREAT idea!!!!!!!!!! . I could catch a fish & not even leave the house.If all you had to do was buy a licence & pay the charter , I'm sure the state would approve. Also I say wtih the reasoning I hear to say YES put up those wind turbines . The state will get a short term boost of revenue that we sorly could use. I don't fish the eastern basin so what do I care.When they fall over even more structure out there to fish around. Yup, Yup, got to have those3 rods to keep those poor unfortunate kids interested in fishing, YUP , YUP. And guys won't come back up here cause they can,t catch a fish out thereYUP.

The less fish out there to catch so lets catch more of them rational is crazy. The Tribs are packed each year with more & more coming up each year w/ the fly fishing boom . Lets preserve & leave more of the fish in the lake to return to spawn so that end of it gets more & more state profitable.In fact maybe we should reduce the creel limit on the lake as they did the tribs to help that end. Only take one steelhead per on the lake also.That seems to be the growth side of this.Its way cheeper for a guy to fish the tribs than the lake.But my guess is it won,t go over big on this board .People& buisness have been fleeing this state because of high taxes & no employment for years. With everyone that leaves goes a few fisherman & licence fees& tax dollars& fines . DEC used to be fish &wildlife management for most part but now has to deal with more & more enviromental issues. The selfishnes I see on this amazes me.Maybe its just me and my old attitude. And I was personaly attacted, belittled & insulted on this thread and others.And to no surprize those are still there. Well, got to go out to the garage & invent a set of planer boards that can carry those extra lines. I figure a 4x8 sheet of plywwod & my boat winch ought to do it.Get some of those big reels to hold that 3000 ft of copper& go down to the weight room so I have the mussle to turn the handle . Maybe a tug boat & weld up a set of rocket launcers& some 20 ' booms for my extra riggers . I wonder if the Zoo would loan out a few of their Chimps ?

Well there goes about 3 minutes of my life I'll never get back.

[spoonfed-1]

Has Been wrote:

Question. What do you do with the fish that are in bad shape once the box is full & you are in C&R mode?

Well Has Been there just ain't that many days that I fill my box as I am mostly catch and release and keep a few of the rough ones for people at the campground to grill up. Or I'll keep a few if someone fishing with me or at home wants some meat. So that isn't much of an issue on my boat. In fact other than tournaments and a yearly trip out to the Niagara Bar I honestly don't remember the last time I kept a limit of Salmon. I think they taste kinda like swamp but many people that I know love them.

Perhaps you should not worry about me and take a look at Has Been.

Here is a statement made by you on a post from not so long ago regarding the 3 rod rule.

Has Been wrote:

When I did have it I ran 4 rods most of the time somtimes 6 on 4 riggers or board s or dipsys or whatever. My best day out with 3 of us was 54 fish on with 36 landed, with 2 kings apro 20, 4 rods.

What did YOU do with those fish Has Been?

Never mind answereing as I'm not that interested in hot air.

Glen

Has Been.

I called you a hypocrite way back here on page 2. Just did it tactfully.

This was right after your rant about all the dead fish the three rod rule would cause. Remember that rant? Thats the one were after going on and on about the dead fish I copied and pasted your statement about going 36 for 54 with 3 guys and 4 rods.

Just thought I would refresh your memory as it seems to be pretty selective in your old age.

Glen