HOW CAN WE HELP PRO AM S GROW

[ray koziatek]

Ok With Some recent discussion on 1 rule in the pro am's it seems to be a "hot topic" as to stay in or drop out of the pro ams....To have such a dissusion as we do now from home (or work ) would of been impossable 10 years ago..

Maybe we could use this new technolagy to IMPROVE the derbys...Our first derby (team L.O.U.S.E.R.S) WAS LIKE A ADVENTURE into one of the coolest fishing experences i have (and i think i can sa our team) had ever done ..The only other "big" derby i ever got into is the "Lake Trout Memorial Derby" on seneca lake..and ive done it for 10ish years ...the numbers in the derby have droped a lot in recent years sems like the numbers were near 2500 when I started and have dropped a lot (should of done my homework as there is a site with some info)........Regardless the total numbers have droped ,the entry price has gone up ,and the payout has gone down.

Over the years "my" orignal crew has sorta drop out due to , new jobs and family life, changes. But my son and I still Get in tho the spark is a little less each year dispite my learnig a few things or two about fishing (catching too), its our time togeather.........................

Ok digresion set in again sorry....But the way i see it is the Pro/Ams are sorta heading the same way...higher fees,less entrants, and smaller payouts.........

So maybe some one could start a pole from the Pro Am Board (proactive) or open discussion....I know time is a factor for some kinda wedding ,graduation time of year.. Money is a issue Entry Fee ,Dockage, Observer ,Food and Hotel or sleeping cost ,..(not to mention tackle but thats not a cost factor as it a nessety )

After placing well enuf to be in the "normal" payout range top 10 , And after planning all year for our derby time ..its kinda a big letdown to hear "we can only pay 5 or 6 places"

I Try to pump up the derby as much as i can but im only a entrant not a board member ,and many of us on this site Thank the committie many time a year for their efforts...so maybe "WE" can have some postive input ,how to Put the "SPARK" into the Pro Ams if the board decides they "need our help" From volenters, ideas ,sponcers,????????????

placees to stay at a discount (not higher fees another story),maybe a gas station will work with us in each town and port .heck 50 fishermen getting gas gotta have a slight (very little ) increase in adult beverage sales,smokes,ice and even soda.. .... ok once again me trys to help some ................

Ray K. Team L.O.U.S.E.R.S.

Ps. if anyone can offer constructive dooable ideas , even if its to the new guys to help us understand the the whole process from home so we can plan ahead for a derby..........

[Paul Czarnecki]

If I've followed the way you've drifted Ray, I think I can have some suggestions for you and everyone else who wants to see the ProAms continue to grow.

First, a correction. You said, "...the Pro/Ams are sorta heading the same way...higher fees,less entrants, and smaller payouts........." That is not entirely true Ray. The ProAms have raised the entry fee for Pros but LOWERED it for Ams in response to requests from teams like yours. Consequently, if the entry fee is lowered the payout MUST be lowered. It can't work any other way.

If the pay level is reduced from the top 10 to the top 5 its because there simply wasn't enough entrants to warrant paying 10 places. ProAm Policies dictate that prize monies are paid to the top third of the field. That means, you need at least 30 teams to be able to pay 10 places. We haven't had 30 amateur teams in a ProAm in a long time.

The Open Division was added because teams ASKED for it. They wanted a less competitive division that would also allow them to only fish one day if they chose to do so. That Division has also been poorly supported (thus far).

Which brings me to what YOU and the other teams can do to help.

--Instead of three boat owners getting together and fishing under ONE team name how about all three boat owners fishing their own boats with their own teams. You just added two more teams to the field and increased the payout and the pay field!

--Instead of harping on rules and rule changes to try to recruit a few teams back in how about helping to find new, BIG sponsors to put up BIG money. Big prize money will attract a LOT more NEW teams than changing an obscure unenforcible rule ever will. The Committees are always searching for new sponsors but there is only so much a half dozen VOLUNTEERS can do. If you know someone that might want to be a sponsor recruit them. If YOU have a skill or talent (computers, PA systems, personality?) that can help the Tournaments SPEAK UP and volunteer.

--Help the Committees help YOU. The tournament's integrity is only as good as the participants. If your team picks a drunken, crack headed vagrant to sit in as "Observer" and that person is passed out by 8 AM what kind of integrity can your team and the tournament in general, have? Good, responsible observers that WANT to be there raise the integrity of the tournament and keep everything on a level playing field.

There is a LOT more that I could say but I will save that for another day. The ProAms are continuing to grow and improve with YOUR help and your input. Please remember, though, that there is only so much that can be done by a few volunteers. If you really want to see the ProAms grow do YOUR part and help the Committees by bringing in new teams, new sponsors and help raise the level of integrity of the entire ProAm experience.

Looking forward to a spectacular 2010 Tournament Series.

Paul

[ray koziatek]

Thanks Paul, I didnt know the prices went down for the AM,s this year from the increased 265.00 last year my bad. And i understand the #'s entered determan the payout places,and your right on about anyone who can help from personal skills to finding sponcers ..i would love to see more man toys prizes included with the payouts and door prizes hmm some charters could offer 1/2 day trip for 4, drawing maybe to the "observers to help bring in more motavated observers"..and the ripple effect of getting hooked might bring charters some welcomed trips in the future,.the "gift bags" at wilson a few years back at regerstration was a neat idea ...The volenteer helpers are a must for this type of hudge undertaking...

Maybe working with other derbys on diff finger lakes,swaping some promo stuff or information on derby i never heard of the pro ams till getting on this site ..a display or poster at local marinas on the finger lakes could catch many potential fishermens eyes and some one to burn 1000 cds of the pro ams video could be a good inexpensive way to Show the Pro Ams ..Another long distance dooable volenteer job .. Great idea on splitting up the teams who own their own boat, It would be as easy for all the ams to find new crews and fish seperate as it would be for all the pros who own their own boat to split up,find new crews and fish seperate boats. If the result of fishing the derbys gave some of our team members insentive to buy bigger boats i dont feel we should split up as a team for that reason. The reason we "teams" like to fish togeather as a team effort to apply our massive amount of talent of catching fish,and share some good times as old (some older) friends..huh bobby?

[Fishtails]

Good suggestions Paul, thanks for your input I wish I knew how to help out more. I certainly would. Hopefully, I was able to get us at least one new sponsor this year, as Big Weenie has told me he'd jump aboard. I passed that over to Dave Turner, so I'm assuming he has taken it from there?

I was comfortable speaking with BW, cause he's a great down home kinda guy and easy to talk to so we've developed a good repore. However, for the most part I feel as though I lack information to present to a potential sponsor. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think they want to hear from a participant. Besides....you know how important first impressions are. As participants, I don't know that we're armed with the proper tools and knowledge to pull in big money sponsors. What would your advise be Paul? You gave us a suggestion on what to do....now we need to be tought how to do it. Most teams are going to be a tad bit intimidated calling a potential sponsor. Knowledge is power !! Why don't you guys put together a sponsor committee?? I place my vote for Billy V to head it

Ray....I do give you credit buddy. You give the Pro Am props everytime you get the chance We have fished against each other several occasions, enjoying a few beers and good conversation along the way. My teams visit to your teams camp in the 08 Sodus Pro Am will forever be a hilariously memorable

moment for me. One which we still laugh about. Your visit to our camp last spring to borrow a towel was our laugh last year (pink towel incident). What's gonna happen this year.....I can't wait to find out

Those are the things that don't get talked about enough. How about some good stories of your Pro am expierences? These are the reasons I can't wait for them every year. It's not about the money. It's about the journey....and the thrill of competition. The thrill of victory...the agony of defeat...the coulda...the shoulda.....The pro am series is something we should all expierence. All the friends made along the way is something I really value. Whether you finish in first place, or last place...it doesn't matter. You participated, and therefore you're accepted as part of "the club". We have all bombed at one time or another, that's just fishing. If you love lake Ontario fishing....give one a try and you'll know why many of us become so passionate over it.

[muskybob]

Well said guys. It'll be an interesting year I'm sure. I'm curious to see how many more new teams can be generated through our posts. Positive statements generate positive actions.

[spoonfed-1]

Well put Rod.

I also started to think about what I could do to try and drum up new sponsors after reading Paul and Rays posts. Unfortunatly I just don't have an once of that salesmen kind of stuff in my entire body. LOL.

Can't hurt to try I guess.

Glen

[Paul Czarnecki]

You don't need to be a salesman, guys. You just need to have the "contact". You simply give your "contact" to one of the ProAm Directors and THEY will see that YOUR contact gets sent a Sponsor Package. There is no selling needed on your part.

We have a "Sponsor Committee" and have Sponsor Packages ready to be sent to potential sponsors. However, we need to get a foot in the door---so to speak. That is where YOU guys come in. For example, you work for _________ Corporation and your "boss' boss" is a big fisherman. You ask around and find out how to get him interested in a"fishing opportunity" and who to send the info to. You write that information down. A simple call or email to Dave Turner from you and a Sponsor Package will be on the way. SIMPLE. If everyone would try to come up with ONE contact each try to imagine what the possibilities are.

We all know people with their own boats who don't, for whatever reason, fish the ProAm Tournaments. Give them a brochure, invite them to the Weigh in or invite them to be on your team as an observer. Get them involved. The more people that get involved the better the tournaments will become.

Last year several TV shows were filmed to help promote the ProAms. I believe Tom had the link posted here. More shows are scheduled to be filmed this year. Those shows are sure to raise awareness about what we have and what we all enjoy every June and July but WE can do more. Try to get some sponsors and try to bring a new team in to fish the ProAm. You might be pleasantly surprised at what WE can accomplish.

[Splitshot115]

I haven't fished them yet , but I did write to the WFN Network to see if they would be willing to do some type of show on them. They sent it on to the production department to see what they can come up with. So if some more of you guys write in you might see some more shows from the South Shore. Here's the link if you want to send them something.

http://www.wfn.tv/about/contact.php

Splitshot115

[Fishtails]

I wrote them too....never got a respose back though. This was all before I saw the show that was taped last spring. From what Paul wrote, It sounds like more are in the works, so smile real pretty this year guys.

[Iceman]

Get rid of the observer, then smaller boats could fish for the big money.

[A-TOM-MIK]

There are many ways to see our LO Pro/Ams from different points of view, from inside them and what makes them tick, to participation, to the look of their appeal or lack-there-of from the "cities and towns people" when we all come to town.

Living in Oswego personally and witnessing each and every year of an event called harbor fest will exaggerate many opinions, something like this can have much appeal to many

With that in mind our Pro/Ams also offer up some benefits to all, on a smaller level obviously because we are talking only a percentage of people in comparison

Ray it is a very good idea IMO to keep this awareness out there that all of us should be concerned with, especially as I have noted before "during times like these"

Paul gave some good advice on how to handle a future sponsor, to handle that potential is often key so it is not lost, those directly related and the most informed should be where that chance is directed

Rod, on our end to make that contact look attractive to a potential sponsor you can usually offer some of your personal experiences concerned/with, then point them in the right direction for options. Our personal experiences will usually be better accepted and honored.

My experiences (due to my business interests and my participation) often deal with more portions of different attitudes than that of a single everyday competitor, or that of a single towns person, or a coordination member. Input never, and I mean never (year round) stops flowing concerned with my strong interests mentioned around these Pro/Am's. As strong as that interest is will most times effect personal opinions.

Our loved Pro/Am's have much experience within them, we are in good hands I feel, my original drive for closing communication for "Oswego first" was heavily influenced by Oswego participation and the word on the street, both past and present. I still feel in my heart our Oswego event would be better off under a closed communication enviroment. In the last week alone I probably have a good 40+ hours into talks, chats and E Mails with mostly members to our Pro/Am's. I learned a lot from coordination and received some great advice from sources outside coordination.

With this said we will move on and continue to punch forward. The Pro/Am's do need much of our constant feedback, especially when this feedback is felt in the same light as others.

Often I think about the mentioned bass circuits and the monies paid, I guess they may have either done more homework then us or caught a better break here and there, maybe our time is yet to come because we obviously have some very strong passions flowing into them !!!

My best piece of advice to participants involved with our events, who are in hopes of improving the betterment of our Pro/Am's, is to show your satisfaction to anyone around our scene. If I was a greenhorn, a big lake angler who just didn't compete, or any kind of potential future participant to our Pro/Am's I would be looking for guidance and satisfaction coming from its players. Each of us can agree we can not satisfy all involved, there are many personal opinions to cater to, but if there seems to be any sort of negative ado circulating around "our scene", that sell will certainly be harder to achieve at that point. It took me time to realize this during my "no com. campaign"

Tom

[bottom-feeder]

i was an observer for team L.O.U.S.E.R.S last year in the oswego pro-am ( 1st time i ever had any thing to do with them )

this year we are gonna participate in the open division in oswego and perhaps sodus ( depending on work )

perhaps you could do something special for the youths involved ( under 16 ) ..... mayby there arent very many BUT i know if i enter a derby somewhere my daughter will be involved

[ray koziatek]

some one send me a sponcer packet i think i know someone who might be willing to help..and if you have posters or nice window adds a friend of mine has a small sporting goods store,and my nieces husband ownes a store at the arnot mall,,,also having a rep. at the boat show at the mall might do some good as many small dealers are present there if im back in town by then ill put my arm up for that job ...(not in the buff i promise ) ..I also know the boys at seneca marine well enuf (BillyBob) to get a sign in there. rats there goes that arm again ,,well i suppose a do as i do approach not a do as i say is the only way to save face or my ....

Ray Koziatek

213 seneca st

corning N.Y

14830

[ladyblugill]

Get rid of the observer, then smaller boats could fish for the big money.

amen.....seems like a no brainer to me but i guess some people just don't get it or are just stubborn.

[ray koziatek]

ok thats a start but the open division has been started for those who cant afford a observer, but when your in a derby with such tight guidlines and the temptation to "make a error" in your favor sometimes a observer is needed...and when the purse "could" go to max with a (full field) even more temptations might be happining,, finding a observer is part of the fun of the derby and adds to the morning tension each day,,and over the 3 year history of our new found fun we even had a female observer 3 times..............HEY WAIT DO YOU THINK THE EVENT ORGANIZERS THINK ME AND OLE MUSKYBOB ARE HARMLESS (darn bob i said blue pills not water pills give me the can next)... if you guys need to find observers each port (event) usually has a list of people who sign up to be a observer ,their is NO COST for these observers but we do normally "tip" the observer for their time..

[ladyblugill]

..blue pills....everyone knows the standard tip is a hundred and i personally would not feel good about shorting someone i don't know if that were the case. i think the point is that my 20 fter is a boat load with just the 3 of us and having a 4th sitting around taking up space especially during the crappy spring weather wouldn't be a pleasant day on the lake for anyone. i'd guess that was icemans point also.

[bottom-feeder]

join the open division blugill....help promote that part of it....no observer needed......... fish longer ( at night if wanted) fisn any port ( as long as u make weigh-ins by noon....... ONLY 3 fish needed

[ray koziatek]

YEA Iknow about the small boat at 22ft(mine) it does get a little tight , and heading out the shoot looking up at the waves from the other boats does rock the boat a tad(kinda like when musky goes to his can corner),but rain or shine and sometimes 5 ft waves are the side effects of fishing on given weekends or days.. We have fished in weather that would be termed as "not fun" but thats "DERBY fishing" and that 1 or 2 derbys a year when the weather is perfect makes up for it when the crew can relax..........

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[muskybob]

That pic's got more miles on it than the Columbia shuttle.

[Iceman]

There is no problem affording an observer hair back (money is certainly not the issue)! I just don't have room for them, & you don't have complete assurance that the observer is a person that you would want on your boat.

We have been throught this before, observers are not needed, just go to the polygraph for the top 5 places, & there will be no issues!!

The observer must go for the Pro AM to grow, kinda like "if the glove doesn't fit you must acquit!!!

[ray koziatek]

Hey how do you know im a "hair back" you been peeking when im out there buffy fishing? Like i said room is a issue tho ive seen other some smaller boats like yours (18 ft min) particapate. I feel your pain of small boat fishing as my last boat was a 17.5fter. The boat length min. is for safty reasons for all concerned ,due to inclamate weather. In the past weve had some observers pushing 300 lbs so my 22ftr got a little tight too,but for the "excitement and ability to be in the Pro/AM" was worth the loss speed and extra elbows in the side. This year i did buy a smaller pitch prop to ease the strain on the moter (4cyl). So that might be a lesser expensive option for you to consider if getting on plain or speed is a problem with smaller vessels too. Other than that it might be a good reason to go to wiffy and say honey I want to be in the pro ams but need a bigger boat you wouldnt mind would ya, She will give ya her blessings im shure .. hey Im just trying to give you suggestions how to make your first Pro /Am a more enjoyable experience.. As far as the Observer rule for me its all ive ever known as im new to the derbys and just accept it as part of the experience, tho there is a little extra effort needed in lining one up but with the invention of the internet we or you could post your need and usually get the spot filled quick (just dont tell them you got a small boat) ,,,,So after reading this walk right up to the wife put your foot down and TELL her your gonna get a new boat!!!!!....Or do like me buy the boat first and Beg Forgivness,,

Thanks for you imput on why you cant get in the derbys as im shure others have simular concerns...

So like i said if your on the fence about the Pro/Ams I will try to answer any newbe questions or concerns that i feel comfortable or am able to HELP in any way ....Icemans challange of a small boat is a tuff concern but a doable issue. The worst conditions other than 5 ftrs is rain so if ya plan on Pro Am plan ahead and try to make or buy a top or some sort of encloser to protect ya ,and your observer from the elements...

Ray K. (aka hairy back)

[Hookedup]

All of the Sportsman Shows are starting up soon. How about puting up a table at these events with Brochures Pictures EX? Like other have said I know alot of guys that fish the Finger Lakes, Erie, and even Ontario that do not Know about the Pro Ams. I will be set up at the Watkins Glen Community center show in March, if I had the material and some info to put out I would. We are going to fish two of them this year for the first time. Thanks Sean

[ray koziatek]

Tha t was my thought too sean, ive requested a sponcer packet also to "do my part in helping" And the Arnot Mall Boat Show draws in a lot of smaller dealers who might be interested in promoting the derbys (BIGGER DERBYS BIGGER BOATS) I know of two dealers that would let me share (if possable) some floor space to set up and represent the pro ams a nice tv and pro am video would really keep and get some intreste from the passing crowdes..

[A-TOM-MIK]

Tell Billy Bob I said Hello, Ive dealt with him since he took over Seneca Marine. He does see some traffic down there for sure !!

Rick Angel also use to have his own little event/spring based/ before he passed (in Montour Falls), Does anybody remember the crow? I recall Rick coming to Lady O even to partake in our fishery on many occasions!!

Tom

[Shade]

Is that the complete list of Sponsors posted on the Pro/Am website or are there some missing?

Shade