CharterCaptains with openings the weekend after Mothers Day.

[Nemesis]

FYI- A New Hampshire derby that has been running for nearly 30 years has decided to not have a derby this year due to the lack of size of the landlocked salmon in Lake Winnipesauke. The Winni Derby will not be held this year.

If I was a charter Captain on lake O. with openings that Fri- Sunday I would go to http://www.fishlakewinni.com and post about coming out to beautiful Lake O. I used to fish Winni but am hooked on Lake O. I got tired of catching 2-3 pound LL salmon and love to fish for BT that time of year in the eastern basin. maybe you can hook some of these guys and have some regulars for years to come.

[Nemesis]

I see Capt. Paul took my advice. Any others? This derby gets about 2000 entrants from all over the northeast. Lots of business out there!!!

[Has Been]

Question for you Nemisis. Why is the size of the LL's so small & the reason for the derby being cancelled?

[Nemesis]

Winni Derby canceled as salmon size, numbers fall

By ROGER AMSDEN

New Hampshire Union Leader Correspondent

Friday, Jan. 15, 2010

CENTER HARBOR – A continuing decline in the number of trophy-size salmon being landed in Lake Winnipesaukee has caused the cancellation of May's 29th annual Winni Derby.

"We have come to the difficult decision that this year's event has the potential to further damage the salmon fishery," said Rick Davis, executive director of the Winni Derby since its inception. "We also understand that the amount of fishing pressure is way up and it stays that way all season long.''

He said that members of the derby committee met with biologists at one of their netting sites in mid-November to observe the fish being measured and weighed.

"At this net site there are normally 400 to 500 salmon, and in 2009 we counted just over 70. There was only one fish that weighed over three pounds, and by actual count, 30 percent were hook-wounded,'' Davis said.

The number of hook-wounded salmon has doubled over the last five years, according to Don Miller, fisheries biologist with the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department.

He said the catch-and-release practiced by many fishermen is playing a major role in reducing the size of the salmon in the lake. Hook-wounded fish are shorter and weigh less, he said

The same situation prevails on Squam Lake and Lake Sunapee according to Miller.

He said the decline in size of the salmon is taking place despite the presence of a large and healthy forage base of smelt and smaller fish species.

The Fish and Game department stocks 24,000 year-old salmon each year; it takes three years for them to approach trophy size.

Davis said the size of the winning fish in the derby has dropped almost in a straight line, from 6.02 pounds in 2003 to 4.74 pounds in 2007, 4.28 pounds in 2008 and 4.12 pounds in 2009.

He said the expansion of charter boat services around the lake appears to be a contributing factor in the decline, along with the use of increasingly sophisticated fish-finding devices.

â–ºNH Fish and Game Web site

"No one seems to know how many charter boats are fishing the lake and, in some cases, two charters per day. Reports of 20 to 40 fish a day being caught are not uncommon,'' Davis said.

Hook damage to the eyes, jaws and cheeks can stunt the growth of trout and other species, part of the problem that led to the cancellation of this year's Winni Derby tournament. (COURTESY NH FISH AND GAME)

He said the derby results in about 225 fish being killed, but there are no records showing how many are caught and released during the three-day event.

"We do know that the derby does not kill as many fish as any busy weekend right after ice-out,'' Davis said.

The derby has had as many as 2,700 entrants in a year and has been slightly under 2,000 in recent years, according to Davis. He noted the event brings in hundreds of thousands of tourist dollars before the start of the summer season.

Derby officials hope to revive the derby in 2011, but that will be dependent on the condition of the salmon population, Davis said.

Miller said the department is looking at a number of proposals to ease pressure on the lake, including a lower daily limit and adjustments to the length of the season.

Salmon season runs from April 1 to Sept. 30. The Fish and Game Department conducts netting during spawning season in October and November to check on the health of the fisheries and gather eggs, which are fertilized and taken to the Powder Mill Hatchery in New Durham. They are raised a year before being stocked.

Landlocked salmon were introduced to the state from the St. Croix River in New Brunswick in 1866 and released into the Cockermouth River, a tributary of Newfound Lake. The following year they were introduced into Lake Winnipesaukee and Squam and Sunapee lakes, and have become one of the state's most popular game fish.

Miller and fellow biologist John Viar are calling on fishermen to use caution when releasing hooks and to use rubber nets when landing fish to help prevent the loss of the slime coat, which protects them from infections.

Fishermen are also urged to harvest severely hook-damaged fish rather than continuing to seek larger fish

[Has Been]

Hey guys ,did you read that.?Wow .I hate to say I told you so but........

[ray koziatek]

some how i knew that was commin ,after fishing landlocks for many years i know that when you hit a school of them every rod in the boat will go off ,and they have a very soft moulth compared to kings or cohos (much like a steelie) and yes a few lips are ripped ...but if their undersize ya gotta toss em back by law even if you know they wont make it. AND LIKE 99% of us said if its a legal fish and hurt to bad we KEEP it.. Also landlocks are feeding machines and put a real hurting on anything the school encounters less forage = smaller size i dont know how big that lake is but 2700 boats is huge derby numbers about 2000 people get in the seneca derby 36 miles long 2 miles wide but at 4 per boat the number of boats is much smaller and the fish population in seneca is very heathy due to good forage,dispite the 1000,s of fish caught or released in 3 days alone. The smelt population in seneca is gone or almost non existent sence the introduction of landlocks (stocking) in the 80's and heavy treating of the streams for lamphry ells ..The dec finnaly admitted what we all knew "treatment of streams might of had a impact on smelt" when i was a kid to get a 5 gal pail of smelt took 2 dips of the net in almost every small stream on that lake ... Basicly due to their aggressive feeding they will eat themselfs (landlocks) out of house and home and it sound like them guys are sending the little ones back ripped lips and all due to size limatations ,,,,more than likley because a small but legal length one is a delicious meal...also a GOOD ETHICAL fisherman will pull his spread in a school of small ones as they are a size schooling fish,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,But I have to Agree a little with you on this one ,,That a uninformed or beginner fisherman might not have the smarts to adjust his target zone or spot and stay on the little ones ... Thats why I said Pros like you need to reach out to the newer guys and inform them of proper fishing tec. for each spiecies, I.E.-when to pull your spread if getting small fish, Proper fish handling to release fish ,,How To burp those deep water fish with a full air bladder before releasing,,,,and all the other proper fish reviving way you know to help with fish mortality rates.............Instead of harping on those of us that do that all the time as 2nd nature ....SO INSTEAD OF JUMPING UP AND DOWN SAYING I TOLD YOU SO I TOLD YOU SO!!! Show us you can help the fishery with a new topic of how TO Release a undersize fish,,,,or when its time to go in the cooler and call it a day.....Many new guys (and fish) will benifit from your ability to do research how to help the fish ,not attack the guys who want to fish more for their money... Thanks ..

EDIT: lake ontario 7500 square miles,,,,,,,,,,,,,this lake above in vermont is 73 sq miles sooo if i do some fuzzy math we all would need to run 100 rods to decimate the lake ontario population of bigger fish ,someone start production of a 20 ft long 200 ft beam boat boat and youll be rich....

[Nemesis]

Told us what?.....what statement did you make? Did I miss it?

Winni has good numbers of LL salmon...just small. The lake trout for the most part are over looked. Thy Derby has a division for LT as well. The rainbow trout that they have stocked in recent years are doing fine and getting big.

The ice fishing derby does a number on the LL salmon each year as well. Maybe that one lake should be off limits....but too hard to control since its a statewide derby.

[Has Been]

You have got to be freakin kiddin me. Read my old post on three rod & reasons for it. The NH DEC proves my point in spades.

[spoonfed-1]

Has Been your comparing apples to oranges here. Man are you desperate. Did you read the line that says they stock 24000 fish a year and the pressure is on the increase? Check the stocking numbers on LO for 2009 and the fact the fishing pressure IS on the decline. I'm thinking there could be some mismagement issues going on there on Winni. that could contribute to these statistics and it appears they are taking action to rectify these issues.

Now if you would like a little better comparison to LO, at least as close as you can get considering the difference of the species, check out the LL fishing from the Finger Lakes. You will find they are quite different from Winni. But hey, What do I know.

Thinking first and typeing second is a good plan.

Glen

[stinger]

OH....I feel a ......about to start!

[ray koziatek]

opps my bad i thought you were against it..."""""""""""""""".Read my old post on three rod & reasons for it."""""""""""" by has been

[ray koziatek]

phewww,,,,,,,,,,ahhhh,,,,,phewww ..nope we need more kindlin to get this roaring again....

[spoonfed-1]

It's a good way to pass the winter months and maybe give some new fishermen some accurate information along the way.

For example:

Taken from Rays post,

But I have to Agree a little with you on this one ,,That a uninformed or beginner fisherman might not have the smarts to adjust his target zone or spot and stay on the little ones ... Thats why I said Pros like you need to reach out to the newer guys and inform them of proper fishing tec. for each spiecies, I.E.-when to pull your spread if getting small fish, Proper fish handling to release fish ,,How To burp those deep water fish with a full air bladder before releasing,,,,and all the other proper fish reviving way you know to help with fish mortality rates.............Instead of harping on those of us that do that all the time as 2nd nature ....SO INSTEAD OF JUMPING UP AND DOWN SAYING I TOLD YOU SO I TOLD YOU SO!!! Show us you can help the fishery with a new topic of how TO Release a undersize fish,,,,or when its time to go in the cooler and call it a day.....Many new guys (and fish) will benifit from your ability to do research how to help the fish ,not attack the guys who want to fish more for their money... Thanks ..

Glen

[Erbyjoe]

Hb your like a wife that won't quit until we say your right!!! your always right From now on Your right Has Been yep your right!!!!!! What was I thinking Lets move on

[Hookedup]

The LL salmon fishing on the Finger Lakes is great it does have some faults, It is a put and take fishery. The state in all its wisdom puts salmon into a lake like Cayuga for example that are to short. The legal length of these fish on Cayuga is 18 inches, the schools of starving LL salmon they dump in the lake are 9 to 15 inches. It is a slaughter Like Ray said you try to avoid them when you find them, but as they spread out over the more productive spots you get into them. I dont care who you are or what riggs you are using when they bite they get tore up. Even the ones that swim away are messed up. I have changed hooks from trebels to singles it does not help. The fish fight hard and will bite lures three times their body size. If you wanted to catch them you could fill the boat with two rgger rods. I bet at least 90% of the hooked these fish dont make it. If the size limit was lower or if they put bigger fish in the lake less salmon would be floating around dead. The one good thing on the Fingers is we have bait the length of the lake and so many salmon are stocked many do make it. You can put nice salmon in the boat all day. But it hurts to watch a dam good eating fish float away for seagull bait. I bet we could prevent the fish kill we could just stop fishing and hang out with Has Benn . Well not me give me three rods charge me a 100 dollars more a year to run three per person on my charter boat so my out of state clients dont pay the bill, and call it a day. Then put the money towards some more soak time on those short salmon in the hatchery. Thanks Sean

[Has Been]

You guys make this wayyyyyyyyyy to easy!!

[lakebound88]

i agree with the fingerlakes LL fishing. can get some pretty fish, yet a bunch of small ones! either lower the size, or increase the stocking size, maybe even try stocking some more baitfish? I'm sure many things can be done. It would be nice to have something done, we all know the dec is aware of the situation..but maybe our governor has something to do with that? i saw a few LL's that were in the nine pound range this yr! not on my boat though, biggest for me was 5:( Tight lines everyone!!

[LongLine]

Lake Winni is a completely different ecosystem than Big-O.

Ray – You hit it right. Lake Winni is puddle (size wise) compared to Big-O. Its entire volume would flow out the St Lawrence in 3 1/2 days. Lake Winni has a max depth of 180 Ft, average depth of 43 ft & over 244 islands. Big-O has an avg depth of 283 ft & max 802 ft and would take 6 years to empty out the St Lawrence. Seneca actually has more than 7 times the water than Lake Winni, a max depth of 630 ft and is considered only the second largest of the Finger Lakes. I guess this can be likened to fishing the tribs where there is virtually no water column and you can work your bait directly by line of sight to the fish, especially in crystal clear water. Interesting that NH doesn't know how many fishermen/charters are out there.

Smelt were purposely introduced into Seneca 1909-1912.

We all know that “journalists†never misquote their sources & never put their own slant on their writings. Anyways, I found it interesting that this journalist points out that 30% of the fish turned in had been “wounded.†He doesn’t say if previously wounded or not. If previously wounded, then it indicates to me that previously hooked & released fish do survive, are surviving and can be caught again in contrast to what some people claim that they don’t survive. If not previously wounded, then the slant he puts on his story is total BS because it means 30% of the fish were wounded during "catching" and kept (for weigh in).

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[ray koziatek]

Boys I think we been dupped, there ant no one that missinformed this far from Washington or Albany... I think we done , has been had by a tree hugger,or a peta member guy (or girl)...the only other post i remember this inflamatory was by that kid who was posting under his papas name.. I have heard it said many times "you cant fix stupid" and yup I was one of the guilty parties that kept stacking the wood by the fire so for some of us (all but 1 no names mentioned),know the benifits to 3 rods ,ive had fun but as mentioned above this is too easy ,but it does make the time go by a little quicker..

I think "has been " is short for we Has Been Had.

[janz]

Hee hee hee here we go again. Great winter reading.

[Erbyjoe]

Guilty as charged

[Has Been]

Post deleted. Violation of site policy: No personal insults allowed. We encourage open debate on LOU, but not at the expense of others. Thank you.

[spoonfed-1]

Yup your right.

Everybody else is wrong and LL fishing in Winni and LO fishing are a very good comparison.

That statement alone displays the amount of common sense thats really at work here.

Glen

[ray koziatek]

Brrr its getting cold in here....creek (Dry hinges) , well it appears oll ray ray was wrong again ,but it was the rulers fault sorta ya see i broke it and taped it back togeather ,,I wish I got the kind like that guy at the niagra bar was using ,If we wernt so busy reeling in fish and setting rods I would of asked him why he was measuring the lake ???? now im feeling a little guilty knowing because we were running 1 extra rod that made the difference between our boatload of fish and all those poor other guys wernt getting nuttin.....another thing that baffels me is after a strong n/e blow all the zebra mussels must get real hungry cause they clear up all the water in a couple days and the fish are gone??? some day im gonna mount a camera on a big rocket thing ,,send it into orbit and take photos of the great lakes,,,,all those zebras eating that much must create a ton of poop you could see frome orbit,,,,Ill call it a "rays poop cam" na kinda sounds like a cell phone camera after i "shart" .......Hmm "rays buffy cam" ....nope then everyone would know where"chief OMGanothershortfatbaldone" 'S happy buffy ground is .....geese this is tuff i just want to take a photo of the MODern Inner Shoreline of the lakes HEY THATS MY BAD TYPING JUST GAVE ME A CLUE ILL CALL IT "MODIS" NOW IGOT that figured out im gonna have to call these guys at this factious site that say i measured lake "w" wrong boy these idiot say 71 when i know i measured it 73 miles.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Winnipesaukee

now it warming up again...

rats to slow again someone alreald mounted a camera on a big stick...

http://coastwatch.glerl.noaa.gov/modis/modis.html

[Has Been]

This post is getting tired. Lacks a sence of humor, is a little to elitest, Turnabout is not fair play, etc. I fished from the keys to the canadian shield & learned that both the water & the fish are pretty much the same everywhere. My original reason against , which common sence told me first, was proven by NH, stands. Once the facts are out there's not much more to say. Not being one to hide in the club house & cry, I speak my mind . I'll hang with the trib guys who cast & retrive, more my style anyway. We get blamed for a lot of the woes of the lake. LOU policy is to protect the small streams from the lifters, snaggers, lurkers, or non sportsman as I like to say .That card gets played a lot on here. Who will protect the lake from the same nonsportsman ?That would be me, hey, I tried.You can lead a horse to water......... . Number & sizes of trib return fish are down & the NH study shows us part of the reason why& some discount it, some split hairs or plain just don't care . To conservre & protect for future generations .